Fine, then be scared and careful, but “..the Kingdom of Heaven suffers violence and the violent take it by force.” You have to take an action. I guess the guy on the cross with Jesus should have tried to communicate telepathically to Him so that he didn’t speak? There are times where a physical action is required for a spiritual breakthrough or response from God.
Obedience REQUIRED
- Thread starter ScooterJackson
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
I'm not scared of action.
I'm cautious about confusing the action with the cause.
The thief on the cross did speak.
He called on Jesus in faith, and Jesus saved him.
But it wasn't the physical movement of his lips that saved him.
It was the faith expressed through his words.
Likewise, Scripture is full of examples where faith expresses itself through action: calling on the Lord, repentance, baptism, confession, prayer, obedience, laying on of hands, and so on.
Where I would differ is saying the physical act itself produces the spiritual result.
God responds to faith.
The action is the expression of that faith.
So yes, there are times when a person must act.
Bartimaeus cried out.
The woman touched Christ's garment.
The thief spoke.
But in every case the emphasis is not on the mechanics of the action, but on the faith behind it.
Jesus repeatedly said, "Thy faith hath saved thee," not "Thy method hath saved thee."
Did these Corinthian believers not have the Holy Spirit? Yet, Paul called them babes in Christ.
2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's:
Who cares how it works, it just does. But you’ve got to hear God for yourself. If you’re ministering to someone and you feel a check in your spirit, then you need to back up or try and listen to what God is revealing to you. In receiving salvation or the baptism of the Holy Spirit, it’s usually pretty straight forward. If you’re at an alter call and you’re praying for people, then God will lead you specifically on what each person is dealing with.
This is a reference to the physical kingdom on earth where Christ will rule and reign for a thousand years. This is not a reference to the eternal salvation of a believer.
I don’t know, I’ll have to go back and read it. I know the Peter before the baptism of the Holy Spirit was a babe in Christ. The Peter after was not. Sounds like you’re mad bro.
It’s also an attitude required for accessing the spiritual realm of the kingdom of Heaven. Jacob had a violent attitude when he wrestled with God. Elisha had a violent attitude when he chose not to obey Elijah, but pressed on.
Scripture cares how it works because Scripture repeatedly explains why people are saved, healed, justified, or blessed.
If I feel a prompting, an impression, or a check in my spirit, that's something I should test by Scripture. Otherwise, I have no objective way to distinguish God's leading from my own thoughts, emotions, or assumptions. The Bereans were commended because they tested what they heard against Scripture, not because they ignored doctrine in favor of experience.
So I have no problem with God leading people individually.
My concern is when subjective impressions become the authority.
God's leading and God's Word will never contradict each other, which is why Scripture must remain the final test of every experience.
Its called the BEMA seat, and only believers will be there.
they will be judged for their works. and be rewarded.
Unlike the great white throne, where unbelievers will be..
The interesting implication is that while works do not determine whether a believer is saved, they do matter greatly because Christ will evaluate them. That is why Paul can teach both justification by faith and accountability for works without contradiction.
So, you’re gonna have a Bible with you at all times? What about the Holy Spirit bringing scriptures to memory? Yes, we need to “…test the spirits…” But when God calls you to do something, you need to obey. Then the question is, “How do you hear God.” I’d like to see the scripture that told Jesus to make mud and put it over the blind man’s eyes. He was in contact with God and was obeying. There is a time when you feel a leading of the Holy Spirit and you obey that unction. God will call you to minister encouragement, prayer of salvation, give something of need, or lay a person on your heart to pray for, or he may lead you to pray for that person right there.
This is basic stuff.
Exactly, our works are necessary because we will be judged for rewards, not salvation. Some will have very little to no works, but they will be saved.
1 Corinthians 3
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
I don't think we're as far apart as it may seem.
No, I don't carry a Bible open in my hand 24/7.
But the Holy Spirit bringing Scripture to remembrance is not an alternative to testing by Scripture, it's one of the ways God helps us do it (John 14:26).
I fully agree that believers should obey the Spirit's leading.
If God lays someone on your heart to pray for, encourage, help, or witness to, you should obey.
That's basic Christian living.
The difference is that I don't treat every impression as automatically divine simply because I felt it strongly.
Scripture tells us to "test the spirits" (1 John 4:1) because sincere believers can misinterpret impressions.
As for Jesus making mud for the blind man, Jesus is the Son of God acting with perfect knowledge of the Father's will. We are not. That's precisely why believers are told to test things, examine things, and hold fast to what is good.
So yes, obey the Spirit.
But obey the Spirit who inspired Scripture, not a feeling that cannot be tested.
The safest place is where the inward leading and the written Word agree.
yes.
But they are necessary if we want rewards. Not if we want to be saved
Remember in that passage, the one who had all his rewards burnt up. is still saved. even as through fire.
That's exactly what I said.
Paul did not teach justification by works. He taught justification by faith apart from works (Rom. 3:28; Eph. 2:8-9).
He also taught that believers will be judged according to their works at the Judgment Seat of Christ, not to determine salvation, but to determine reward (1 Cor. 3:12-15; 2 Cor. 5:10).
So there is no contradiction:
Salvation is a gift received by faith.
Rewards are earned through faithful service.
The same Paul who said we are saved "not of works" also said every believer's work will be tested by fire. The works do not save the believer, but they do matter to Christ.
In short, works are the evidence of salvation and the basis of reward, but they are never the basis of justification.
You a little tied up. Peter had a lot of zeal without knowledge before he received the Holy Spirit. After, he was a completely different person. And was able to obey God moment to moment, following the Holy Spirit’s leading. And yes Jesus was God, but he still responded to seemingly random situations by being led of the Holy Spirit.
Where I differ is the idea that testing spiritual impressions somehow hinders that leading.
Peter himself received direct guidance from God in Acts 10, yet the same Peter later had to be corrected publicly by Paul in Galatians 2. Spiritual people can still misjudge situations.
So, that’s just Peter. He still had some issues. Doesn’t mean he wasn’t used of God. Paul had some issues too. John the Baptist did too. But we can still hear what God is speaking to us. The baptism of the Holy Spirit just sharpens your hearing and supercharges everything. It is the birthplace of the spirit.
I would be careful is with the statement that the baptism of the Holy Spirit is "the birthplace of the spirit."
Scripture teaches that a person is born again by the Spirit (John 3:5-8) and belongs to Christ because they have the Spirit (Rom. 8:9). Many Christians therefore see the new birth and receiving the Spirit as occurring at conversion.
If by "baptism of the Holy Spirit" you mean a subsequent empowering for service, boldness, ministry, and greater sensitivity to God's leading, then I can understand what you're describing from Acts.
So I'd put it this way:
the Spirit absolutely sharpens our hearing, empowers our walk, and enables effective ministry.
The question isn't whether God leads His people.
The question is how we distinguish His leading from our own thoughts.
That's why even Spirit-filled believers are told to test, discern, and examine what they receive rather than assume every impression is from God.