Obedience & righteousness - extreme grace version

[Chuckt]

The kingdom of God has come near. Repent and believe the good news!
Mark 1:15

Repent, for the kingdom of heaven has come near.
Mat 3:2

I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.
Luke 13:5

This is basic following of Christ yet you are denying it. Sin is the problem in the world which is the fruit of our lack of relationship with God.

Jesus has removed the veil, so we can enter and speak to the Father.

Belief by itself is what demons have, belief that Jesus is who he said he is. If you do not repent, do not accept His forgiveness for your sins and commit your ways to follow Him, nothing has any effect.

Acts 2:38,"Repent, and be baptized...as a result of the remission of sins." "for" is in the resultant sense. repent and be baptized as a result of being saved

Acts 2:38 may be translated,"Be baptized because of the remission of sins"-Dr. Charles Ryrie

The Preposition "EIS" may be translated "because of" and it is translated that way in Matthew 12:41 and Luke 11:42

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

This is a polarised straw man argument.
Either it is all spiritual from above or it is man made.

This is like saying I believe my car is the only version in existance and there are no other versions.
As has been stated this is exactly a gnostic notion. Anything human corrupts the whole process.

I just read something very interesting.

"The ultimate end of all Gnosis is metanoia, or repentance, the undoing of the sin of material existence and the return to the Pleroma [realm of spiritual perfection]". ​

And what is repentance to a gnostic? Being aware of their spiritual nature and completely ignoring/disregarding the material world.

How many times have we heard "grace" teachers say that repentance is being aware of their new nature/identity and completely eschewing any consciousness of sin or bodily defilement.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Acts 2:38,"Repent, and be baptized...as a result of the remission of sins." "for" is in the resultant sense. repent and be baptized as a result of being saved

Acts 2:38 may be translated,"Be baptized because of the remission of sins"-Dr. Charles Ryrie

The Preposition "EIS" may be translated "because of" and it is translated that way in Matthew 12:41 and Luke 11:42

eis means into. oti means because, or that. Dr Ryrie is simply incorrect.

 

[Grace777x70]

Oh brother.....here we go again with the garbage......Oh well..at least it does gives us the change to preach the gospel of the grace of Christ!..we rejoice in that!

 

[PeterJens]

Repentance was a concept going back to Adam and Eve.

It is not linked to being born again exclusively. Being baptised is John the Baptists ministry, which it appears many in Israel followed though the pharisees and teachers of the law did not.

What brings conviction of sin? Preaching the word and the conscience of the listener. The Holy Spirit's ministry is in teaching and directing the believers and people of God, and the prophets.

The ability to conquer sin comes from communion with God after repentance and faith. There is a problem around the area of choice, ie does new birth occur after or before repentance? Repentance is the expression of a desire which until tested is just that. As John the Baptist called out to the teachers of the law, was they should show some fruits of repentance before coming for repentance, ie baptism is confirmation of the repentance not the beginning of it.

King David repented of many things throughout his life so repentance is not a one off event, but a process of seeing issues and dealing with them. So I do not see any connection you are trying to construct, but rather the opposite, you are denying everyone is aware of the damage sin does and covers it up, rather than faces and repents of it.

The city of Nineveh repented but there is no record of them being Godly in the sense we would recognise.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Acts 2:38,"Repent, and be baptized...as a result of the remission of sins." "for" is in the resultant sense. repent and be baptized as a result of being saved

Acts 2:38 may be translated,"Be baptized because of the remission of sins"-Dr. Charles Ryrie

The Preposition "EIS" may be translated "because of" and it is translated that way in Matthew 12:41 and Luke 11:42

eis is not even in Luke 11:42.

 

[Grace777x70]

The word "repentance" - metanoia as been shown by others simply in the original greek means " to change the mind ". In Jesus and Paul's day the word would be used in a sentence like this. " I was going to the synagogue but I metanoia (changed my mind ) and went to the market.

There are "fruits" of repentance ( changing the mind ) as in the case above...the person "went to the market". ( every fiber of my being wants to say..."and this little piggy stayed home".....but I will refrain )

To us it means to change our mind to stop relying on ourselves and our thinking and turn to God. Stop living our own life with our own thinking and come to Christ and let His life live through and in you. Receive all that Jesus did for us in His finished work.

We should be repenting ( changing how we think towards something ) constantly as we see the Lord's true nature, love and grace revealed to and in us.

There will always be "fruits" of having a changed mind ( having repented ) to God but the "fruit" is not the repentance within itself. True repentance is the "root" before the "fruit" comes.

The fruit will manifest itself in the form of having a changed heart because we are a new creation in Christ. This will also show in behavior as the life of Christ transforms our outward life to reflect what has already happened in our inner man - that new creation in Christ.

Sometimes our religious traditions can "hi-jack" the meanings of words and can present false assumptions.

Anyone that is interested can listen to examples of this in the video below...it'll bless you and you will fall deeper in love with our Lord as we learn more of Him and we will live a lifelong journey of repentance.


[video=vimeo;142883678]https://vimeo.com/142883678[/video]

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I just read something very interesting.

"The ultimate end of all Gnosis is metanoia, or repentance, the undoing of the sin of material existence and the return to the Pleroma [realm of spiritual perfection]". ​

And what is repentance to a gnostic? Being aware of their spiritual nature and completely ignoring/disregarding the material world.

How many times have we heard "grace" teachers say that repentance is being aware of their new nature/identity and completely eschewing any consciousness of sin or bodily defilement.

To a gnostic, the only sin that existed was not being aware of his identity as a spiritual being.

One "grace" teacher said that sin is a symptom of a confused identity (i.e., being sin-conscious instead of being conscious of one's spiritual identity).

 

[roaringkitten]

To a gnostic, the only sin that existed was not being aware of his identity as a spiritual being. One "grace" teacher said that sin is a symptom of a confused identity (i.e., being sin-conscious instead of being conscious of one's spiritual identity

That doesn't describe the beliefs here of any grace believer on CC, false accuser of the brethren!

 

[gb9]

That doesn't describe the beliefs here of any grace believer on CC, false accuser of the brethren!

but remember, we who lead with God's grace get told what we believe. no one pays that much attention to what we post, they are so busy telling us what we believe.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

That doesn't describe the beliefs here of any grace believer on CC, false accuser of the brethren!

False accuser of the brethren, huh? Check this out:

"The Corinthians, like many Christians, had an identity problem. Their sin was a symptom of their confused identity. Paul deals with their sin by reminding them of who they are in Christ." - Paul Ellis ​

 

[roaringkitten]

False accuser of the brethren, huh? Check this out:

"The Corinthians, like many Christians, had an identity problem. Their sin was a symptom of their confused identity. Paul deals with their sin by reminding them of who they are in Christ." - Paul Ellis ​

So you know what I believe because you supposedly know what Paul Ellis believes? Where has any grace believer on this forum said "the ONLY sin that existed was not being aware of his identity as a spiritual being"? Got an example to share?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

So you know what I believe because you supposedly know what Paul Ellis believes? Where has any grace believer on this forum said "the ONLY sin that existed was not being aware of his identity as a spiritual being"? Got an example to share?

I don't know or care what you believe. Paul Ellis is a popular "grace" teacher and one person here virtually worships him. Ellis represents the norm.

 

[oldethennew]

HRFTD,

we have perceived by now and pray that that no matter what you post, that you also will perceive that
you are Loved and hubby and I know that because of your origins that we will have to 'stretch-a-bit'
to understand your thoughts and heart, but, after all, you are a child of our Heavenly Father,,,
we have often met others like you, and were grateful for the many things that we were learned and
were taught through special learning...

we would like to share, that often though these fellowships we were led to humble ourselves '
and through this refining and testing, our Father has continually shown us who we really are
and what His plans are for us, both now and in the future...

 

[Grace777x70]

So you know what I believe because you supposedly know what Paul Ellis believes? Where has any grace believer on this forum said "the ONLY sin that existed was not being aware of his identity as a spiritual being"? Got an example to share?

LOL..I love how things are taken out of context...tell the accuser to put up the whole article ...the article was saying if someone sins as a believer they are not acting in accordance to who they are in Christ now......which is why Paul said so many things to the Corinthian church about their true identity.....to those going to the temple prostitutes he said....know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit...etc.

Always when someone like HRFT puts something up...go see what is really being said..that's my advice - you will see how things get "twisted"....as we all have seen multiple times here in dealing with his theories like we are all gnostics.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

So you know what I believe because you supposedly know what Paul Ellis believes? Where has any grace believer on this forum said "the ONLY sin that existed was not being aware of his identity as a spiritual being"? Got an example to share?

Here ya go. Timely.

"All sin to me is ignorance of the true life that is in us in Christ."​

Comment made today here > http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/133048-mark-2-7-11-a.html#post2534333

 

[oldethennew]

grace,

we thought anyone would automatically know that if they 'willingly' sinned and had no remorse or
guilt or need for 'repentance' after they believed/thought who they now were in Christ Jesus, after conversion,
and that they were not responsible for their actions, then, to us, it would be obvious that their 'thought/belief'
were in vain...another words, they were believing satan's 'counterfeit gospel...

 

[FreeNChrist]

grace,

we thought anyone would automatically know that if they 'willingly' sinned and had no remorse or
guilt or need for 'repentance' after they believed/thought who they now were in Christ Jesus, after conversion,
and that they were not responsible for their actions, then, to us, it would be obvious that their 'thought/belief'
were in vain...another words, they were believing satan's 'counterfeit gospel...

Apparently not. HeRose continues to willingly sin by deliberately slandering and bearing false witness against others, and shows no remorse or guilt or need for repentance whatsoever.

 

[Grace777x70]

I believe that there is a real sin that is behind the outwardly seen sin.

Example:..I go to the store and steal food ( I confess that I stole food to God )

The "sin" of stealing the food is just the "fruit" of my real sin....which is....I do not trust in my loving heavenly Father to take care of me as He said He would, so I take things in my own hands.

This happens for most sin - it is a blindness to seeing who our Father really is to us what we have in Christ now because of His finished work.

All this is a sign of ignorance of His life that is in us and believing in His goodness and faithfulness to us.

 

[thepsalmist]

grace,

we thought anyone would automatically know that if they 'willingly' sinned and had no remorse or
guilt or need for 'repentance' after they believed/thought who they now were in Christ Jesus, after conversion,
and that they were not responsible for their actions, then, to us, it would be obvious that their 'thought/belief'
were in vain...another words, they were believing satan's 'counterfeit gospel...

Exactly ... I'm just coming to the realization now how important it is to underline that licentiousness in grace is unacceptable. Not everyone seems to know this. We assume they would ... but not all DO.