Observing the sabbath???

[JimmyM]

Yes, they were law keeping Jewish people. They were under the old law... correct? This was before Jesus was even born, much less crucified and raised from the dead... old law.

Yes, they were Jewish and yes they were guided by not only the teachings of Moses, but guided by the truth from the time of Genesis to Malachi as to God’s expectations on how a righteous man lives. God expects a righteous man to be lawful. Not lawless. Law is not a bad thing until one begins to think he is saved because he’s keeping certain laws. I believe that is what Paul is speaking of in Galatians when he uses the phrase ‘you who are under the works of the Law’. He’s not advocating you no longer have to keep God’s laws, he’s arguing against keeping any law thinking it’s law that saves a person. It’s the same today. Folks see their righteousness often coming from what they do, not based on faith. Faith will produce good works, but it’s a fine line that separates the faithful from the unfaithful.

I believe Zachariah and Elizabeth were intimately knowledgeable of Genesis 26:5 In Genesis 26, God appears to Isaac and confides in him why Abraham’s seed was chosen to bless all the nations of the earth 5 “because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.” Now this predates the Mosaic Law for there was about 245 years between the death of Abraham and the birth of Moses. The Hebrew wording to Isaac on Abraham obeying the voice of God, and keeping God’s charge, keeping God’s commandments, keeping God’s statutes, and God’s laws, is the same Hebrew spoken to Moses from Sinai more than 400 years later.

Salvation found in the Old Testament is no different than salvation found in the New Testament. Salvation for them was by faith just like for us. An earmark of godly men is that they are lawful, not lawless. Paul teaches us we are saved through faith and not of ourselves lest any man should boast. But does that faith nullify the Law? What did he say? Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

We know that Zechariah and Elizabeth were not perfect in the sense of sinless, only one holds that prestige. But they were blameless as they ‘by faith’ obeyed the Law that God provided to bring one back into fellowship with him when they sinned. He provided the sacrificial system that would cover their sins until the one Moses spoke of who would come and remove our sin as far as the east is from the west.

Also let me say one other thing that I think has been misunderstood. The ‘yoke’ spoken of that was too heavy to bear in Acts 15 even for their ancestors was the yoke of the Pharisees and their system of oral laws having no relationship to the teaching of Moses. James wasn’t speaking about God’s commandments but pointing to the exhaustive compilation of oral laws the Pharisees had added which amounted to a walk of self righteousness. Remember they were back in Jerusalem seeking a ruling because the Judaizers had spied on the fellowship both Jew and Gentile were having in Antioch under Paul and Barnabus’ teaching. The law the Judaizers were arguing was being broke, was the Pharisees law that Jews were not to fellowship with Gentiles because they would become defiled. This is not found in the teachings of Moses. It’s found in the oral laws of the Pharisees. Therefore we see in the decision of James, the elders and the Holy Spirit this notion was put to rest by instructing the gentiles turning to faith in Jesus to join their Jewish brethren weekly and in the synagogues and learn more of what Moses had to say.

The Psalmist tells us in Psalms 1 that he who meditates on the Law (Moses teachings)day and night is like a tree planted by the waters and they prosper in all they do. A man who has faith, has the spirit of obedience. “For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome” (1 John 5:3).

As a Christian I see the blessing and inspiration found on both sides of a divided book.

 

[Inquisitor]

In Truth TMS the sabbath was never written for me, for I was never a Jew. The Old Covenant was made for the rebellious Jews, and they needed it to! LOL, I use this example, I once lived in California, I now live in Michigan, do the same laws written in California apply to me living now in Michigan?? Of course not, same here.

Yes, they were Jewish and yes they were guided by not only the teachings of Moses, but guided by the truth from the time of Genesis to Malachi as to God’s expectations on how a righteous man lives. God expects a righteous man to be lawful. Not lawless. Law is not a bad thing until one begins to think he is saved because he’s keeping certain laws. I believe that is what Paul is speaking of in Galatians when he uses the phrase ‘you who are under the works of the Law’. He’s not advocating you no longer have to keep God’s laws, he’s arguing against keeping any law thinking it’s law that saves a person. It’s the same today. Folks see their righteousness often coming from what they do, not based on faith. Faith will produce good works, but it’s a fine line that separates the faithful from the unfaithful.

I believe Zachariah and Elizabeth were intimately knowledgeable of Genesis 26:5 In Genesis 26, God appears to Isaac and confides in him why Abraham’s seed was chosen to bless all the nations of the earth 5 “because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.” Now this predates the Mosaic Law for there was about 245 years between the death of Abraham and the birth of Moses. The Hebrew wording to Isaac on Abraham obeying the voice of God, and keeping God’s charge, keeping God’s commandments, keeping God’s statutes, and God’s laws, is the same Hebrew spoken to Moses from Sinai more than 400 years later.

Salvation found in the Old Testament is no different than salvation found in the New Testament. Salvation for them was by faith just like for us. An earmark of godly men is that they are lawful, not lawless. Paul teaches us we are saved through faith and not of ourselves lest any man should boast. But does that faith nullify the Law? What did he say? Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

We know that Zechariah and Elizabeth were not perfect in the sense of sinless, only one holds that prestige. But they were blameless as they ‘by faith’ obeyed the Law that God provided to bring one back into fellowship with him when they sinned. He provided the sacrificial system that would cover their sins until the one Moses spoke of who would come and remove our sin as far as the east is from the west.

Also let me say one other thing that I think has been misunderstood. The ‘yoke’ spoken of that was too heavy to bear in Acts 15 even for their ancestors was the yoke of the Pharisees and their system of oral laws having no relationship to the teaching of Moses. James wasn’t speaking about God’s commandments but pointing to the exhaustive compilation of oral laws the Pharisees had added which amounted to a walk of self righteousness. Remember they were back in Jerusalem seeking a ruling because the Judaizers had spied on the fellowship both Jew and Gentile were having in Antioch under Paul and Barnabus’ teaching. The law the Judaizers were arguing was being broke, was the Pharisees law that Jews were not to fellowship with Gentiles because they would become defiled. This is not found in the teachings of Moses. It’s found in the oral laws of the Pharisees. Therefore we see in the decision of James, the elders and the Holy Spirit this notion was put to rest by instructing the gentiles turning to faith in Jesus to join their Jewish brethren weekly and in the synagogues and learn more of what Moses had to say.

The Psalmist tells us in Psalms 1 that he who meditates on the Law (Moses teachings)day and night is like a tree planted by the waters and they prosper in all they do. A man who has faith, has the spirit of obedience. “For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome” (1 John 5:3).

As a Christian I see the blessing and inspiration found on both sides of a divided book.

You discussed the meaning of the 'yoke' in Acts 15:11.

I will print that verse below.

Acts 15:10-11
Since this is the case, why are you putting God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our forefathers nor we have been able to bear? But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are.

The Pharisee's origin a distinct group arose after the Maccabean revolt, approximately 165–160 BC.

The Pharisees were late on the scene in Israel's history, just over one hundred and fifty years before Jesus was born.

Now here is what you claimed below.

"Also let me say one other thing that I think has been misunderstood. The ‘yoke’ spoken of that was too heavy to bear in Acts 15 even for their ancestors was the yoke of the Pharisees and their system of oral laws having no relationship to the teaching of Moses."

Your interpretation is impossible, given that Peter used the phrase 'forefathers'. Peter was referring to forefathers such as the prophets and Moses.

Luke 11:47
Alas for you, for you repair the tombs of the Prophets, whom your forefathers killed.

The Pharisees did not exist when the prophets were executed, not for centuries after that.

 

[JimmyM]

You discussed the meaning of the 'yoke' in Acts 15:11.

I will print that verse below.

Acts 15:10-11
Since this is the case, why are you putting God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our forefathers nor we have been able to bear? But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are.

The Pharisee's origin a distinct group arose after the Maccabean revolt, approximately 165–160 BC.

The Pharisees were late on the scene in Israel's history, just over one hundred and fifty years before Jesus was born.

Now here is what you claimed below.

"Also let me say one other thing that I think has been misunderstood. The ‘yoke’ spoken of that was too heavy to bear in Acts 15 even for their ancestors was the yoke of the Pharisees and their system of oral laws having no relationship to the teaching of Moses."

Your interpretation is impossible, given that Peter used the phrase 'forefathers'. Peter was referring to forefathers such as the prophets and Moses.

Luke 11:47
Alas for you, for you repair the tombs of the Prophets, whom your forefathers killed.

The Pharisees did not exist when the prophets were executed, not for centuries after that.

****************************
Looking at Acts 15, I have to ask what was the purpose of convening a council at Jerusalem. It wasn’t because the folks at Antioch were obeying the commandments of Moses. This all too often gets lumped into any discussion of Law pointing to Moses. We’ve interpreted Galatians and Romans 14 the same way but in my opinion it’s error.

You are correct on the origin of the sect of the Pharisees but the Oral tradition dates back to the time of Moses according to Orthodox Judaism. In Judaism it’s called the Mishnah. An example that’s pointed to concerning the earliest of Oral tradition is the commandment found in Numbers 31 on tying a tassel on a four corner garment. No where in the written is it’s instructions found on how to design it or how to attach it, but it’s understood God communicated this to Moses, who in turn orally passed this down to Israel. By the time of Jesus, the Pharisees were in charge of the synagogues where the Torah was to be taught while the make up of the Temple found its members from the sect of the Sadducees. There are historically dissenters to the Oral traditions at least in their entirety like the Sadducees and the Essenes, but the fallout of the Oral Law is rife in the New Testament documentation. If you do not recognize it, you’ll put the best interpretation your denomination has ascribed to it. I did reference it as the oral laws of the Pharisees, because by the time of Jesus, it was the Pharisees who were in charge and were the administrators of these traditions.

It was the oral tradition that forbid the Jew and Gentile to fellowship. Not the teachings of Moses. Peter states this to Cornelius in Acts 10. This is what brought Paul and Barnabus back to Jerusalem for a ruling. All I can say is in Acts 15:21, we see Jacob (James), the elders and the Holy Spirit pointing the gentiles toward a Sabbath worship in order to learn the teachings of Moses(Old Testament and the Prophets), along with the help of the Holy Spirit they perhaps could avoid the error in being caught up in the traditions of men. Jesus deals with the Oral laws that make void the word of God in Mark 7 and Paul in Galatians on the subject of circumcision for Gentiles. Only in The Oral Law were gentiles required to be circumcised in order to enter the kingdom. In the OT the alien and the sojourner (gentiles)were allowed to exist among the Israelites without circumcision unless they chose to partake of the Passover Lamb. As a Christian you are welcome to believe the commandments of Moses were nailed to the cross, but I don’t see it in that light. Thanks for your input

 

[Inquisitor]

Also let me say one other thing that I think has been misunderstood. The ‘yoke’ spoken of that was too heavy to bear in Acts 15 even for their ancestors was the yoke of the Pharisees and their system of oral laws having no relationship to the teaching of Moses. James wasn’t speaking about God’s commandments but pointing to the exhaustive compilation of oral laws the Pharisees had added which amounted to a walk of self righteousness. Remember they were back in Jerusalem seeking a ruling because the Judaizers had spied on the fellowship both Jew and Gentile were having in Antioch under Paul and Barnabus’ teaching. The law the Judaizers were arguing was being broke, was the Pharisees law that Jews were not to fellowship with Gentiles because they would become defiled.

You are saying above that the 'yoke' was the teaching of the Pharisees.

Here is the reference from the text (Acts 15:10)

Acts 15:10-11
Since this is the case, why are you putting God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our forefathers nor we have been able to bear?

The Pharisees are a political, religious group, a ruling party. The Pharisees have nothing to do with the forefathers.

The forefathers are a genetic lineage travelling through the past to Abraham.

You are confused.

 

[Inquisitor]

****************************
"Looking at Acts 15, I have to ask what was the purpose of convening a council at Jerusalem. It wasn’t because the folks at Antioch were obeying the commandments of Moses. This all too often gets lumped into any discussion of Law pointing to Moses. We’ve interpreted Galatians and Romans 14 the same way but in my opinion it’s error."

What was the purpose of the council in Jerusalem (Acts 15)?

Acts 15:1
Some men came down from Judea and began teaching the brothers, “Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.”

The Lord commanded Abraham to circumcise his offspring.

Then the law commanded all male children in Israel to be circumcised.

Leviticus 12:1-3
Then the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, “Speak to the sons of Israel, saying: ‘When a woman gives birth and delivers a male child, then she shall be unclean for seven days; as she is in the days of her menstruation, she shall be unclean. Then on the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised.

Circumcision was the law.

"I have to ask what was the purpose of convening a council at Jerusalem?"

Acts 15:1
Some men came down from Judea and began teaching the brothers, “Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.”

Just read the text from Acts 15, then you will identify what the controversy was that the apostles were meeting to resolve.

Acts 15:5
But some of the sect of the Pharisees who had believed stood up, saying, “It is necessary to circumcise them and to direct them to keep the Law of Moses.”

Circumcision and the law.

There is no alternative interpretation.

Yoke means the law.

 

[JimmyM]

What was the purpose of the council in Jerusalem (Acts 15)?

Acts 15:1
Some men came down from Judea and began teaching the brothers, “Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.”

The Lord commanded Abraham to circumcise his offspring.

Then the law commanded all male children in Israel to be circumcised.

Leviticus 12:1-3
Then the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, “Speak to the sons of Israel, saying: ‘When a woman gives birth and delivers a male child, then she shall be unclean for seven days; as she is in the days of her menstruation, she shall be unclean. Then on the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised.

Circumcision was the law.

"I have to ask what was the purpose of convening a council at Jerusalem?"

Acts 15:1
Some men came down from Judea and began teaching the brothers, “Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.”

Just read the text from Acts 15, then you will identify what the controversy was that the apostles were meeting to resolve.

Acts 15:5
But some of the sect of the Pharisees who had believed stood up, saying, “It is necessary to circumcise them and to direct them to keep the Law of Moses.”

Circumcision and the law.

There is no alternative interpretation.

Yoke means the law.

I stand corrected.

What I meant to offer before the Jerusalem encounter was Galatians 2:4 and 2:11. My thoughts had drifted to the original concern Paul had in Antioch when certain men supposedly sent from James were spying out their table fellowship. Until they arrived both Peter and Barnabus were sitting and eating and having table fellowship with the gentiles and then pulled back. As Peter stated in Acts 10, it was a Law (custom/Oral tradition) that forbid fellowship between the Jew and Gentile. It was not in the written Law.

I’m just not sure how you can interpret Acts 15:19-21 any other way. The four abstentions are clearly found in Leviticus 17 and 18 and if the Law had been done away with, why is he writing to the gentiles to keep these four for starters. He tells us only four were given so as not to burden them down for it appears to me they expected them to learn all the oracles of God each week on the Sabbath and in the synagogues. This did happened during the first half of the first century. But something went awry.

 

[Inquisitor]

I stand corrected.

What I meant to offer before the Jerusalem encounter was Galatians 2:4 and 2:11. My thoughts had drifted to the original concern Paul had in Antioch when certain men supposedly sent from James were spying out their table fellowship. Until they arrived both Peter and Barnabus were sitting and eating and having table fellowship with the gentiles and then pulled back. As Peter stated in Acts 10, it was a Law (custom/Oral tradition) that forbid fellowship between the Jew and Gentile. It was not in the written Law.

You quoted from Galatians 2. Paul is talking about a lot more in Galatians 2 than just table fellowship.

Galatians 2:16
Nevertheless, knowing that a person is not justified by works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the Law; since by works of the Law no flesh will be justified.

Under the law Peter could fellowship or associate with a Gentile. Though the country of origin of the Gentile cannot include the seven nations listed below.

Deuteronomy 7:1-3
When the Lord your God brings you into the land where you are entering to take possession of it, and He drives away many nations from before you, the Hittites, the Girgashites, the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and mightier than you, and when the Lord your God turns them over to you and you defeat them, you shall utterly destroy them. You shall not make a covenant with them nor be gracious to them. Furthermore, you shall not intermarry with them: you shall not give your daughters to their sons, nor shall you take their daughters for your sons.

 

[Inquisitor]

I’m just not sure how you can interpret Acts 15:19-21 any other way. The four abstentions are clearly found in Leviticus 17 and 18 and if the Law had been done away with, why is he writing to the gentiles to keep these four for starters. He tells us only four were given so as not to burden them down for it appears to me they expected them to learn all the oracles of God each week on the Sabbath and in the synagogues. This did happened during the first half of the first century. But something went awry.

The problem you have here is that these four rules given to the Gentiles are ordinances in the law.

Does this mean that you are now under the entire law?

You cannot then say the Gentiles are under the ten commandments. Otherwise, you are in direct conflict with these four laws.

The real question becomes, what do these four rules signify?

 

[TMS]

Salvation found in the Old Testament is no different than salvation found in the New Testament. Salvation for them was by faith just like for us. An earmark of godly men is that they are lawful, not lawless

Amen
Praise God

 

[Inquisitor]

Amen
Praise God

Is there a chance that the four rules are from the commandments given to Noah?

Also, do the rules seem to allow some form of fellowship between Jews and Gentiles?

That's what these four rules appear to be achieving.

 

[TMS]

I'm not sure about the 4 rules, but God is a God of order and i all the laws in the old testament were could be divided in 4 groups.

Natural laws like gravity and physics.
Civil laws which guided the people and culture.
Law of ordanaces which all pointed to Jesus and salvation but involved the priestly ministry.
The moral law which defines sin.

It is important to understand which law is being talked about, in context.

People are throwing out all the laws and believe No Law is exists but we know nature is still obedient to Gods laws.

 

[XavierJesusLovesIndia]

No, we are not strictly bound by the Sabbath, or Saturday, and instead the Lord's Day, or Sunday, has prominence in the NT, as many NT passages show. However, my observation is, if the Jews went to one extreme, some Christians have gone to another. What was God's purpose in instituting the Sabbath? It was that man might not find himself so busy or entangled in worldly affairs that he has no time left over for God. Hence, God commanded a day of rest, where people could worship God freely, and be free from other obligations. Those Pharisees who misinterpreted this to mean God cannot heal on the Sabbath, or one cannot pull an animal out of the pit etc totally misunderstood it. But some Christians also seem to have misunderstood it, by going about their own secular affairs, sports, movies, whatever it is, on Sunday, instead of being concerning with worshipping the Lord, doing His work etc. The Lord's day is to be kept holy. That is one of the 10 Commandments. It matters.

Isa 58: The Principle of not doing as we please on God's Day.

13“If you keep your feet from breaking the Sabbath and from doing as you please on my holy day, if you call the Sabbath a delight and the Lord’s holy day honorable, and if you honor it by not going your own way and not doing as you please or speaking idle words, 14then you will find your joy in the Lord, and I will cause you to ride in triumph on the heights of the land and to feast on the inheritance of your father Jacob.”

God Bless.

 

[Ted01]

I think that Jesus is not just the Lord of the Sabbath, but He is our Sabbath.

In Jesus Christ, we rest from the only real work that God has given to man, the work of Law-Keeping.
Through Him, we no longer need to strive endlessly to keep rules that we could never attain to. and truly
have the rest that was foreshadowed by the Law... and in particularly, the command to rest from our labors.
We now rest in Christ Jesus every day of the week.

Jesus is Holy just like the Sabbath was set aside as Holy. To me, the analogy is clear as Jesus is set aside as
the only way to reach God.

Hebrews 4: 1-13 (ESV)
4 Therefore, while the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us fear lest any of you should seem to have failed to reach it. 2 For good news came to us just as to them, but the message they heard did not benefit them, because they were not united by faith with those who listened. 3 For we who have believed enter that rest, as he has said,
“As I swore in my wrath,
‘They shall not enter my rest,’”
although his works were finished from the foundation of the world. 4 For he has somewhere spoken of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all his works.” 5 And again in this passage he said,
“They shall not enter my rest.”
6 Since therefore it remains for some to enter it, and those who formerly received the good news failed to enter because of disobedience, 7 again he appoints a certain day, “Today,” saying through David so long afterward, in the words already quoted,
“Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts.”
8 For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken of another day later on. 9 So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God, 10 for whoever has entered God's rest has also rested from his works as God did from his.
11 Let us therefore strive to enter that rest, so that no one may fall by the same sort of disobedience. 12 For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart. 13 And no creature is hidden from his sight, but all are naked and exposed to the eyes of him to whom we must give account.

 

[XavierJesusLovesIndia]

Let's look at some OT verses on why God instituted the Sabbath:

Observe my Sabbaths and have reverence for my sanctuary. I am the Lord.
(Leviticus 26:2)

Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the Lord your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the Lord your God has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day. (Deut 5:15)

I am the Lord your God; follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws. Keep my Sabbaths holy, that they may be a sign between us. Then you will know that I am the Lord your God. (Ez 20:19-20)

There are six days when you may work, but the seventh day is a day of sabbath rest, a day of sacred assembly. You are not to do any work; wherever you live, it is a sabbath to the Lord. (Lev 23:3)

(1) For the sake of reverence for Him and His Sanctuary among them - reasons of worship
(2) For the sake of remembrance of their deliverance - reasons of how God made them free.
(3) For the sake of a sign of their covenant with Him - reasons to distinguish oneself from unbelievers.
(4) For the sake of it being a Sacred Assembly Day - again, a reason of worship and distinction from unbelievers.

These reasons still apply. Christians should dedicate the Lord's Day to worship, to works of Mercy, and the Lord's Service. Not the service of the world, or of self, or other things imo, in such a way that Christians do the same things unbelievers do on the Lord's Day. That's contrary to these OT passages and also to some in the New Testament.

Acts 20:7: "On the first day of the week we came together to break bread." The Lord's Day, the First Day, has prominence in the NT, both in worship, in celebrating the Lord's supper, in collecting tithes and offerings, and several other such things.


God Bless.

 

[JimmyM]

When I read Acts 24:14, I don’t get the impression that Paul believes the Law of God has been done away with. He is standing in front of Governor Felix at Caesarea on his way to Rome, and this is several years after he wrote to the Galatians. What I get from this passage, is when Paul was given the opportunity to speak concerning his belief, he did not espouse the tenets of a new religion. Have you an explanation for this? He told Felix he served God and worshipped him in accordance with a sect of Judaism known as ‘the WAY’.

This sect was made up of Nazarenes (probably named after Jesus of Nazareth)who kept the seventh day Sabbath and continued to keep the feasts. A better description of who this group was can be found in Acts 2:44 And all the believers were together and had all things in common; 45 and they would sell their property and possessions and share them with all, to the extent that anyone had need. 46 Day by day continuing with one mind in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they were taking their meals together with gladness and sincerity of heart, 47 praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord was adding to their number day by day those who were being saved. This is what spirit filled living looks like and what it looks like to return to your first love. We’re lucky to get a couple times a week from so called Christians while the rest of the week they consider belonging to them for smoozing and socializing with the world. By the time they were being referred to as Christians, they in no way resembled Paul or the group called the ‘Way’, the early believers. Appears they were preaching another Gospel as history would tell it. By the end of the first century, the third Bishop of Antioch, Ignatius, was very revered then and is today by Catholicism. Much of his wrings laid the foundation of the Eucharist, the sacraments and the ecclesiastical hierarchical structure of the western church the Holy Roman See adopted. It’s what happens when you kill the Jew and get rid of his Law.

14 But I confess this to you, that in accordance with ‘the Way’, which they call a sect, I do serve the God of our fathers, believing everything that is in accordance with the Law and is written in the Prophets;

 

[JimmyM]

I can’t seem to find in the NT, any of the following is spoken against. But it is in the Old Testament in Leviticus and Deuteronomy. Horoscopes, tarot cards, astrology, fortune tellers, palm readings, and séances. Am I to believe as you teach that the law has been done away, that under the New Covenant these are acceptable? Please point me to it in the New Testament if I’m overlooking it. I’m aware Paul speaks concerning demons in reference to idols, and he cast a demon out of a woman who was throwing her voice. (Ventriloquism).

Deut 18:10 Let no one be found among you who sacrifices his son or daughter in the fire, practices divination or conjury, interprets omens, practices sorcery, 11 casts spells, consults a medium or spiritist, or inquires of the dead. 12 For whoever does these things is detestable to the LORD.

 

[TMS]

I look at the old testament as a foundation for the new. The teachings in the old were there for us too. Jesus only had the old and quoted more from Deuteronomy then any other book.
The teachings in the old that don't apply to us are the civil, political laws, and ordanaces that pointed to the cross.

The cross has fulfilled the ordances so we look to Jesus instead of a lamb, etc.
And the political laws because we can't control those laws and circumstances change.

The moral, spiritual laws and laws of nature and priciples of truth do not change.

 

[TMS]

Mat 22:17-21 KJV
17 Tell us therefore, What thinkest thou? Is it lawful to give tribute unto Caesar, or not? 18 But Jesus perceived their wickedness, and said, Why tempt ye me, ye hypocrites? 19 Shew me the tribute money. And they brought unto him a penny. 20 And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription? 21 They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.

When the government asks us to obey we should EXCEPT for the things that are against Gods will.

If the government asks us to worship another God we should stand up and resist until death.
But laws that do not go against Gods moral law are fine to obey.

The old testament has so much that helps us to understand what is right and wrong.

 

[TMS]

If the government askes me to labour on Gods holy Sabbath day, i will say no. The moral law of God tells me to not labour on that day.

Render unto God the things that are God's.

Act 5:29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

 

[TMS]

Colossians 2:20
“Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,”

Only those living outside of Christ will be judged according to the old law.

We are not subject to the law of ordinances.
The Sabbath is not part of the law of ordinances.

The Sabbath was made holy before the before any ordinances were required.

The moral law and law of ordinance are different.

Jas 2:10-12
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.