Obsession with Confession (1 John 1:9, sin confession)

[BarlyGurl]

I guess, I am not following you. There is discipline for the believer in that verse and the judgement for the unbeliever who scorns our witness for Christ.

21"You have heard that the ancients were told, 'YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT MURDER ' and 'Whoever commits murder shall be liable to the court.' 22"But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, 'You good-for-nothing,' shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, 'You fool,' shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell.

So you do not percieve any correlation that murder is an egregious sin of commission (direct command) and there is an inference that "hatred of YOU FOOL" is equally egregious?

 

[Gr8grace]

21"You have heard that the ancients were told, 'YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT MURDER ' and 'Whoever commits murder shall be liable to the court.' 22"But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, 'You good-for-nothing,' shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, 'You fool,' shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell.

So you do not percieve any correlation that murder is an egregious sin of commission (direct command) and there is an inference that "hatred of YOU FOOL" is equally egregious?

Whoever(Unbeliever) that calls a believer a moron is subject to hell and the LoF. they scorn a believers witness for Christ.

The believer is subject to divine discipline.

I am slow, and not really following you.........still.

 

[MikeHenderson]

Here is an interesting passage that really sums up what we should and not should do as Christians.

Galatians 5:16-26
[SUP]16 [/SUP] I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness,
[SUP]20 [/SUP] idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies,
[SUP]21 [/SUP] envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
[SUP]23 [/SUP] gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.
[SUP]24 [/SUP] And those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
[SUP]25 [/SUP] If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
[SUP]26 [/SUP] Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.

 

[Willie-T]

Whoever(Unbeliever) that calls a believer a moron is subject to hell and the LoF. they scorn a believers witness for Christ.

The believer is subject to divine discipline.

I am slow, and not really following you.........still.

I understand your confusion. It's difficult to follow someone who dances with their words.

 

[KennethC]

You don't know how to live the Christian way of life then.

An unbeliever can follow those commands.

Ken From your responses so far you don't know how to live the Christian way of life either.

Those ten commandments, or all those things Jesus told us to do are impossible if we don't how to live the Christian way of life.

What are the commands that the believer MUST follow, in order to follow all of Jesus Christs commands. We can't do it if we don't know how to live in the Christian way of life.

the believer is under 4 mandates. What are they?

You contradict yourself in your own responses as early you said an unbeliever can follow those commands, and now you are saying they are impossible.

To tell others they do not know the Christian way of life when you yourself contradict yourself in your responses is just plain wrong.

You say we are under only 4 mandates well if your mandates are; Faith, Love, Forgiveness, and Mercy you are right.

But under love comes trust, obedience, and doing as He taught and commanded.
You can not say you have love and trust in the Lord if you are not obeying what He taught.

You can call me a works based salvationist if you want but I do not believe they get/earn salvation or that they maintain salvation. But I do defend how the bible shows a true faith is proven by one's work !!!

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

You contradict yourself in your own responses as early you said an unbeliever can follow those commands, and now you are saying they are impossible.

To tell others they do not know the Christian way of life when you yourself contradict yourself in your responses is just plain wrong.

You say we are under only 4 mandates well if your mandates are; Faith, Love, Forgiveness, and Mercy you are right.

But under love comes trust, obedience, and doing as He taught and commanded.
You can not say you have love and trust in the Lord if you are not obeying what He taught.

You can call me a works based salvationist if you want but I do not believe they get/earn salvation or that they maintain salvation. But I do defend how the bible shows a true faith is proven by one's work !!!

There is a stark difference between evidence and criteria.

 

[Willie-T]

You contradict yourself in your own responses as early you said an unbeliever can follow those commands, and now you are saying they are impossible.

To tell others they do not know the Christian way of life when you yourself contradict yourself in your responses is just plain wrong.

You say we are under only 4 mandates well if your mandates are; Faith, Love, Forgiveness, and Mercy you are right.

But under love comes trust, obedience, and doing as He taught and commanded.
You can not say you have love and trust in the Lord if you are not obeying what He taught.

You can call me a works based salvationist if you want but I do not believe they get/earn salvation or that they maintain salvation. But I do defend how the bible shows a true faith is proven by one's work !!!

As I have asked dozens of times when people talk about all this "proving" they are doing. "Proving" to whom?

 

[KennethC]

There is a stark difference between evidence and criteria.

Yes I know this, and this is why not all believers will have the same amount of the fruits showing in their life as we are all called for different roles in the faith.

However one's treatment of others and how they speak to others should be the same in all believers, for the bible shows clear etiquette that all believers are to follow.

 

[KennethC]

As I have asked dozens of times when people talk about all this "proving" they are doing. "Proving" to whom?

Just because the proof is for other people does not make it no less the proof that one is saved.

The fruits of the Holy Spirit that will be evident in all true born again believers will show to others that they are saved, no fruits means the person is not saved.

The bible in the NT from Jesus, Paul, Peter, James, and John all emphasize on the fruits as this is walking by the Spirit.
Walking by the Spirit is where Paul says there is no longer any condemnation in Christ, but those who continue to walk by the flesh (carnally minded) they are still subject to face that condemnation.

 

[Gr8grace]

You contradict yourself in your own responses as early you said an unbeliever can follow those commands, and now you are saying they are impossible.

To tell others they do not know the Christian way of life when you yourself contradict yourself in your responses is just plain wrong.

You say we are under only 4 mandates well if your mandates are; Faith, Love, Forgiveness, and Mercy you are right.

But under love comes trust, obedience, and doing as He taught and commanded.
You can not say you have love and trust in the Lord if you are not obeying what He taught.

You can call me a works based salvationist if you want but I do not believe they get/earn salvation or that they maintain salvation. But I do defend how the bible shows a true faith is proven by one's work !!!

Ken, It stems from not believing that we can't judge OVERT fruit of others........We can't see peoples motives.

All of us can follow the 10 commandments. But we can't judge peoples motives. Some can follow the 10 commandments and be EVIL in their motives(Self righteous)

It is IMPOSSIBLE to follow His commands under the right motivation apart from living the Christian way of life.

It is why we can't judge overt fruits of others........we can't see their motives.

An unbeliever can live in faith,love,forgiveness and mercy. But it is impossible for them to live in the RIGHT faith,love,forgiveness and mercy.

And many believers don't live in the right Faith,love, forgiveness and mercy.......because they are not living in the christian way of life.

It is possible to overtly live in most of Christs commandments and look "good" to all of us. But it is impossible to live in them in the right motivation apart from living in the Christian way of life.

 

[KennethC]

Ken, It stems from not believing that we can't judge OVERT fruit of others........We can't see peoples motives.

All of us can follow the 10 commandments. But we can't judge peoples motives. Some can follow the 10 commandments and be EVIL in their motives(Self righteous)

It is IMPOSSIBLE to follow His commands under the right motivation apart from living the Christian way of life.

It is why we can't judge overt fruits of others........we can't see their motives.

An unbeliever can live in faith,love,forgiveness and mercy. But it is impossible for them to live in the RIGHT faith,love,forgiveness and mercy.

And many believers don't live in the right Faith,love, forgiveness and mercy.......because they are not living in the christian way of life.

It is possible to overtly live in most of Christs commandments and look "good" to all of us. But it is impossible to live in them in the right motivation apart from living in the Christian way of life.

You mean it is impossible to follow all of His ways properly without the Holy Spirit abiding in us, but with the Holy Spirit the word of God says "all things" are possible to the one who believes.

To say we can not tell what others motives are is completely wrong as if they are not following the standards the bible has laid out then we know they are not walking by the Spirit. For the bible tells and shows the proper etiquette that believers in Christ will uphold.

If they are speaking to others in an unedifying way then they are operating in the flesh and not the Spirit !!!

 

[Gr8grace]

You mean it is impossible to follow all of His ways properly without the Holy Spirit abiding in us, but with the Holy Spirit the word of God says "all things" are possible to the one who believes.

To say we can not tell what others motives are is completely wrong as if they are not following the standards the bible has laid out then we know they are not walking by the Spirit. For the bible tells and shows the proper etiquette that believers in Christ will uphold.

If they are speaking to others in an unedifying way then they are operating in the flesh and not the Spirit !!!

Ken the context of our conversation is "good" fruit. Following His commands. and discerning the "good" fruit.

Not discerning people disobeying.

2 people give to the poor........one is doing it from approbation lust and one is doing it from living the Christian way of life.

We can't judge this fruit because we don't know their motivation.

 

[Willie-T]

Just because the proof is for other people does not make it no less the proof that one is saved.

The fruits of the Holy Spirit that will be evident in all true born again believers will show to others that they are saved, no fruits means the person is not saved.

The bible in the NT from Jesus, Paul, Peter, James, and John all emphasize on the fruits as this is walking by the Spirit.
Walking by the Spirit is where Paul says there is no longer any condemnation in Christ, but those who continue to walk by the flesh (carnally minded) they are still subject to face that condemnation.

So you do a lot of whatever you do to prove to other people that you are a Christian? Is that what you are saying?

 

[KennethC]

Ken the context of our conversation is "good" fruit. Following His commands. and discerning the "good" fruit.

Not discerning people disobeying.

2 people give to the poor........one is doing it from approbation lust and one is doing it from living the Christian way of life.

We can't judge this fruit because we don't know their motivation.

Well if one is doing it by the love for God and the other is doing it in unbelief then yes their motives are clear, because only the one who is doing it for the love of God has the proper motivation.

The other is doing it for self and thus their motivation is not of God.

We are called to call out others when they are walking improperly in the faith, and if they do not listen after we have followed the proper steps in the bible Jesus and Paul both show they are to be shunned.

 

[KennethC]

So you do a lot of whatever you do to prove to other people that you are a Christian? Is that what you are saying?

No we do what we do because of our love and trust in following the Lord Jesus Christ, and when we do that it shows to others we are saved and under God's grace.

Those who do not show that proper biblical etiquette given to us in the bible we are told they are not operating in the Spirit, but are still walking in the flesh. Those who continue to walk by the flesh (carnally minded) Apostle Paul shows that way still leads to eternal death.

 

[Gr8grace]

Well if one is doing it by the love for God and the other is doing it in unbelief then yes their motives are clear, because only the one who is doing it for the love of God has the proper motivation.

The other is doing it for self and thus their motivation is not of God.

We are called to call out others when they are walking improperly in the faith, and if they do not listen after we have followed the proper steps in the bible Jesus and Paul both show they are to be shunned.

Pretty much everybody on this site that is active with you disagrees with your doctrine and you have told us all, many times, that we are walking improperly.

Why don't you have us all on ignore then?

You are to shun us right? are you going to follow that command?

 

[Willie-T]

Pretty much everybody on this site that is active with you disagrees with your doctrine and you have told us all, many times, that we are walking improperly.

Why don't you have us all on ignore then?

You are to shun us right? are you going to follow that command?

You have a point. Either he is going to obey God, (as he has made God to say...) or he isn't.

 

[Gr8grace]

You have a point. Either he is going to obey God, (as he has made God to say...) or he isn't.

Which also clues us into the true motivation.

 

[MikeHenderson]

Romans 8:1-2
[SUP]1 [/SUP] There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.
[SUP]2 [/SUP] For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.
Romans 13:11-14
[SUP]11 [/SUP] And do this, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep; for now our salvation is nearer than when we first believed.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] The night is far spent, the day is at hand. Therefore let us cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armor of light.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Let us walk properly, as in the day, not in revelry and drunkenness, not in lewdness and lust, not in strife and envy.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to fulfill its lusts.

1 John 1:7
[SUP]7 [/SUP] But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.

2 Corinthians 5:7
[SUP]7 [/SUP] For we walk by faith, not by sight.

To sum it up we are to walk in the Light, we are NOT to walk in the flesh but walk in the Spirit according to the Holy Spirit, and we are to walk by Faith!

We need to walk in the Light with Jesus Christ and not fulfill the desires of the Flesh. Look at Galatians 5:19-21.

 

[VioletReigns]

As I have asked dozens of times when people talk about all this "proving" they are doing. "Proving" to whom?

They're trying to convince themselves. They don't yet believe God already approves of them through Jesus Christ's Atonement.