Occultism in society

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Jan 8, 2009
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#21
Probably something I'm more concerned about, than occult in society, is the paganism in the church, which probably hits a little closer to home for most. See this controversial book, "Pagan Christianity":

http://www.ptmin.org/pagan.htm

Have you ever wondered why we Christians do what we do for church every Sunday morning? Why do we "dress up" for church? Why does the pastor preach a sermon each week? Why do we have pews, steeples, choirs, and seminaries? This volume reveals the startling truth: most of what Christians do in present-day churches is not rooted in the New Testament, but in pagan culture and rituals developed long after the death of the apostles. Coauthors Frank Viola and George Barna support their thesis with compelling historical evidence in the first-ever book to document the full story of modern Christian church practices.
 
Jan 10, 2007
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#23
Please quote some bible verses where Christ commanded His disciples to expose evil. In fact any from Paul etc would do as well.
Speaking to unbelievers, "Then Jesus said unto them, My time is not yet come: but your time is alway ready. The world cannot hate you; but me it hateth, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil." John 7:6-7

Speaking to his Apostles which did believe, "If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you." John 15:18 "Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you." John 20:21

Paul in preaching the gospel, "And as he reasoned of righteousness, temperance, and judgment to come, Felix trembled, and answered, Go thy way for this time; when I have a convenient season, I will call for thee." Acts 24:25

This was not an easy believism message of Jesus loves you. The word "love" appears nowhere in the preaching of the gospel in acts. The only place love appears in the entire book of Acts is in the word "beloved" referring to the saints. Love is the motive for preaching the gospel, but if you want to be extremely technical Mahoganysnail, there is more evidence the use of the law and judgment in to bring people to Christ than there is of preaching the love of God.

The love of God is most clearly shown in the death he died to pay the price for our sins. Jesus said those that have more sins to forive will love the forgiver more. As such if you scripturally show someone their the gravity of their sin and the judgment it deserves, you will find them far more appreciative of the love shown in the cross when you share what Jesus did for them.

If you read the writings of great preachers of the revivals in the past they used this scriptural method, but by far the most powerful evidence is the Book of Acts showing the Apostles emphasis thereon. It's quite clear from the book of acts that the message preached by the Apostles was not easy on the ears. Paul spoke of great persecution and getting entire cities in an uproar because of his preaching. Jesus was crucified for our sins but it wasn't the first time he had people upset enough to kill him. They tried to stone him at least two times before they finally crucified him (John 8:59; 10:31).

Obviously this is not an excuse to preach a loveless gospel or to be strictly judgmental and fault finding. The Bible says in Ephesians 4:15, "But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:" The truth must be preached in the context of love. The Apostles were out just looking for how they could make people cry, but anyone who understands sin knows that when someone understands their sin, its highly likely they will cry under such conviction. An example of this would be 2 Corinthians 7:8-11, "For though I made you sorry with a letter, I do not repent, though I did repent: for I perceive that the same epistle hath made you sorry, though it were but for a season. Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing. For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death. For behold this selfsame thing, that ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves, yea, what indignation, yea, what fear, yea, what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what revenge! In all things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter."

At the same time the Bible is clear that God hates mixtures of good and evil. Scripture is very clear that when you mix good and evil that you only make the good evil, not the other way around.

Thus saith the LORD of hosts; Ask now the priests concerning the law, saying, If one bear holy flesh in the skirt of his garment, and with his skirt do touch bread, or pottage, or wine, or oil, or any meat, shall it be holy? And the priests answered and said, No. Then said Haggai, If one that is unclean by a dead body touch any of these, shall it be unclean? And the priests answered and said, It shall be unclean.
Haggai 2:11-13

It's an un-equivical fact that the Passion movie was not based on scripture but on the writings of occult nuns in a counterfeit christianity. I'm pretty certain even Mel Gibson admits that. As such the question is not whether it's been used in evangelism or if anyone made a confession of faith after seeing it. People make confessions of faith in churches all over the country and world every day, but the statistics are that approximately 90% of those converts fall away. Is it ok to use something clearly mixed with evil in order to bring about a good result. The Apostle Paul was accused of this very thing in Romans 3: 8, "And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose ****ation is just." The Apostle Paul considered it slander to even be accused being part of such a concept.

Further to the issue of whether or not it's ok for a porn star to preach the gospel. My understanding from the research is not that this was digging up her past but her present and continuing life which does not appear to represent anything resembling a christian life. Psalms 50:16-17 "But unto the wicked God saith, What hast thou to do to declare my statutes, or that thou shouldest take my covenant in thy mouth? Seeing thou hatest instruction, and castest my words behind thee."

It's not a matter of David J Meyers looking for evil. If there is evil in it especially blatant evil revealed by his writings, then its imperitve to point it out because the mixture makes even the good contained therein to be contaminated.

Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.
2 Corinthians 6:14-18
 
Jan 8, 2009
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#24
At the same time the Bible is clear that God hates mixtures of good and evil. Scripture is very clear that when you mix good and evil that you only make the good evil, not the other way around.
The bible contains a mixture of good and evil too, just like the Passion of Christ, so does the evil in it make the good bad? Perhaps we shouldn't read the bible either, because it contains rape, incest, killing of babies, genocide, adultery, murder, etc..



It's an un-equivical fact that the Passion movie was not based on scripture but on the writings of occult nuns in a counterfeit christianity. I'm pretty certain even Mel Gibson admits that. As such the question is not whether it's been used in evangelism or if anyone made a confession of faith after seeing it. People make confessions of faith in churches all over the country and world every day, but the statistics are that approximately 90% of those converts fall away. Is it ok to use something clearly mixed with evil in order to bring about a good result. The Apostle Paul was accused of this very thing in Romans 3: 8, "And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose ****ation is just." The Apostle Paul considered it slander to even be accused being part of such a concept.

If the movie was only based on scripture there would only be enough material for about 15 minutes of movie or something like that. Because scripture isn't that detailed about what actually happened..whether Jesus actually fell of a bridge or not who cares it's not important. Despite it being written based on "occult nuns" (I think you mean catholic mystics), it actually does portray a lot of Christ's crucifixion and the events leading up to it fairly well..because it is based on scripture. I'd like to see some statistics of how many christians lost their faith after watching the Passion? I don't know of any.




Further to the issue of whether or not it's ok for a porn star to preach the gospel. My understanding from the research is not that this was digging up her past but her present and continuing life which does not appear to represent anything resembling a christian life. Psalms 50:16-17 "But unto the wicked God saith, What hast thou to do to declare my statutes, or that thou shouldest take my covenant in thy mouth? Seeing thou hatest instruction, and castest my words behind thee."

She isn't a porn star. That is an exaggeration. She's an actress/model. She may have done some explicit scenes, as most actors/actresses do, but read her biography, and take a look at all these "porn films" she has (or hasn't, rather) done,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monica_Bellucci

Certainly, she isn't a "well known Hollywood hardcore porn star" as Meyers put it. I wouldn't call her a porn star at all.


It's not a matter of David J Meyers looking for evil. If there is evil in it especially blatant evil revealed by his writings, then its imperitve to point it out because the mixture makes even the good contained therein to be contaminated.
It's not exposing evil, it's trying to make something big out of nothing..there is nothing blatantly evil there... no one except those who have an inside knowledge of the occult would know anything about it. And even then despite Meyer's claims that he knows something about this evil, he is forced to go to great lengths and exaggerations to show it. It's called splitting hairs, straining gnats, triviliaties. Making something big out of something which isn't there. The internet is full of these people who feel they are contributing in some way .., whether it's about paganism in Christmas/Easter, the sabbath, bible versions, rock music, what clothes we wear, baptism, whether we should wear jewellry etc.. things that don't really matter that much to a person who has found freedom in Christ. But all they are doing is spreading false rumors, lies, deception, troubling people's conscience, etc.
 
Jan 8, 2009
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#25
If Myers wants to point out that some lady died during the film and that somehow proves it is evil, here's a website that shows a number of miraculous things which took place after watching the Passion of the Christ:

http://www.miraclesofthepassion.com/
 

Missy

Senior Member
Jan 15, 2009
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#26
With all the enormously long posts in here, I will simply say this,
amen.
 
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Slepsog4

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#27
There is no correlation between being in a film and dying during its making. If death is what makes something evil, then all of these things are evil...

houses
businesses
hospitals
automobiles
elevators
subways
buses
churches
etc.
 
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christiancanadian

Guest
#28
I agree with you listing Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings, but I don't agree with Passion of the Christ. I actually took the time to review the link that you provided, and I personally found Meyer's 'evidence' weak at best. Using the example that an old lady died in the theatre during it as evidence of God disapproving of the film is really stretching for 'proof'. If you took the odds of the number of people watching the movie in the U.S., I'm not shocked that a person died during the movie..who was old on top of that.

When I watched this film it really struck home to me what Jesus really went through. The pain and torture Jesus went through to pay for our sins with his blood. It made Jesus more real to me than before. I think the movie's impact is more positive than negative. Think of all the thousands of people it brought to Christ because it was a big blockbuster movie.

There are many more flims, books, and music out there that really are deceptive, including Star Wars. So I do agree with you that this is happening.
 
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walkinthespirit

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#29
roaringkitten, thank you for discernment, glory to God, yes many will be decieved in the last days!

In addition God can and will use, what we percieve as evil and might be evil, HE turns all things to good, to bring people to Himself, as His words say, your ways are not My ways. HE has convicted me of this.

But those who do have discernment, it is VERY evil indeed, and we should not expose ourself to things like what you have mentioned, so thank you for warning God's people!

You may wash your hands of it this day! The blood is no longer on your hands!
 
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carpetmanswife

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#30
ive heard alot of ppl ridicule the passion of the Christ....makes absolutely no sense to me at all.
 
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pogrud

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#31
In my opinion these are quite extreme views. I don't think any Christian I know in Europe would even slightly worry about any of those films/books. In fact Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter are very much part of the culture in the UK, and arguably Europe. There is not even the slightest chance of brain washing anyone unless the reader believes everything they encounter.

I'm firmly of the view that you need to understand other people's viewpoints to understand you're own. It's important to be educated. It's no wonder people get into conflicts by taking this approach. How do you stand a chance of understanding foreign policy or science if you take that approach?
 
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roaringkitten

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#32
I was debating whether to put "Passion of the Christ" on the list actually. When I watched it, I felt it was promoting catholicism. But yes, God uses ALL things for His glory. He certainly does not approve of bad things though.

But Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings are wicked! I dont even need those links above to show that God hates it!

As Christians we will not be right about EVERYTHING, or understand everything in this world. And at times I can call out on something that was indeed not harmful at all. I admit, I AM human, and I make lots of mistakes. I try to be humble but I will not compromise Christianity with things that are NOT of the Word!
 
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pogrud

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#33
roaringkitten, can you please explain to me why either LotR or Harry Potter are wicked? It's a perspective I think pretty much anyone outside Europe would not understand
 
Jan 8, 2009
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#34
By the way I felt that the movie "Superman Returns" in 2006, had a lot of Christian themes, as just as many probably more than in Lord of the Rings.
 
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roaringkitten

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#35
pog, I am writing a thread specifically on Harry Potter which will address the issue. The Word of God clearly CONDEMNS it. And I will use Scripture to make my points.
 
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walkinthespirit

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#36
WOOHOO KEEP ROARING KITTEN!!!
 
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pinkcandy

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#37
passion of Christ was gory film full of blood etc etc. Yes many scriptures were twisted also
 
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