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This, and many other verses, show that the 2nd person in the Trinity(who is Jesus Christ our Lord) was active in creation, and was with God, and was God, before the Incarnation.
More importantly, this shows that Christ WAS God before the Ascension(some cults claim that Jesus was not God until he became God through his death and resurrection/ascention to heaven).
in other words: Jesus is, and always was God
More importantly, this shows that Christ WAS God before the Ascension(some cults claim that Jesus was not God until he became God through his death and resurrection/ascention to heaven).
in other words: Jesus is, and always was God
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Rock is used many times in the O.T. as a representation of God. For example:
Deuteronomy 32:31
2 Samuel 22:47
Psalms 18:2
Isaiah 44:3
Rock is used also to represent Jesus. He is the Rock of offense and the stone of stumbling. He is the Rock that followed Israel in the wilderness. This is simply a way of saying that God followed Israel in the wilderness. The idea of God as Rock speaks of his strength, power, and reliability. He is the Rock of refuge - Psalms 94:22; 62:7; 71:3; 31:2, 2 Samuel 22:3, etc, etc.
Deuteronomy 32:31
2 Samuel 22:47
Psalms 18:2
Isaiah 44:3
Rock is used also to represent Jesus. He is the Rock of offense and the stone of stumbling. He is the Rock that followed Israel in the wilderness. This is simply a way of saying that God followed Israel in the wilderness. The idea of God as Rock speaks of his strength, power, and reliability. He is the Rock of refuge - Psalms 94:22; 62:7; 71:3; 31:2, 2 Samuel 22:3, etc, etc.
I agree... it doesn't make a lot of sense to see Jesus as existing before His birth. If we make the assumption that Jesus is outside of time and thus could be present in our time before His birth, then why would anyone have to wait until Jesus was born to believe that he was the Christ? Why not just skip the Jewish rituals and make salvation a consequence of believing that Jesus died long before he did? After all, in a "time doesn't matter" model, there's no reason that the Jews' sins could only be covered after 30 CE, nor any need for prophecy if Jesus Himself could simply present Himself to the Jews and say "I'm the coming Messiah... believe in me!"
But since it's ambiguous (it can represent more than one entity), then it's not useful. It's like saying that Jesus was called God, and thus any reference to God in the Old Testament could be about Jesus. Or like saying that Jesus was a man, and thus any reference to a man in the OT could've been Jesus.
...And as silly and illogical as this is, I see that this argument has been used more than once.
...And as silly and illogical as this is, I see that this argument has been used more than once.
But since it's ambiguous (it can represent more than one entity), then it's not useful. It's like saying that Jesus was called God, and thus any reference to God in the Old Testament could be about Jesus. Or like saying that Jesus was a man, and thus any reference to a man in the OT could've been Jesus.
...And as silly and illogical as this is, I see that this argument has been used more than once.
...And as silly and illogical as this is, I see that this argument has been used more than once.
Malek Yahweh is God...
Malek Yahweh swears by Himself
Hebrews 6.11 - 14
But we desire each of you to show the same eagerness, to the full assurance of the hope to the end; that you not become dull,but imitators of those who through faith and longsuffering are inheriting the promises. For God having made promise to Abraham, since He had no one greater to swear by, "He swore by Himself," saying, "Surely blessing I will bless you, and multiplying I will multiply you." (Gen. 22.16, 17)
Gen 22.15 - 18
And the Malek Yahweh called to Abraham out of the heavens a second time. And He said, I have sworn by Myself, declares Yahweh, that on account of this thing you have done, and have not withheld your son, your only son, that blessing I will bless you, and multiplying I will multiply your seed as the stars of the heavens, and as the sand which is on the shore of the sea. And your Seed shall possess the gate of His enemies. And in your Seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed because you have obeyed My voice.
Malek Yahweh swears by Himself
Hebrews 6.11 - 14
But we desire each of you to show the same eagerness, to the full assurance of the hope to the end; that you not become dull,but imitators of those who through faith and longsuffering are inheriting the promises. For God having made promise to Abraham, since He had no one greater to swear by, "He swore by Himself," saying, "Surely blessing I will bless you, and multiplying I will multiply you." (Gen. 22.16, 17)
Gen 22.15 - 18
And the Malek Yahweh called to Abraham out of the heavens a second time. And He said, I have sworn by Myself, declares Yahweh, that on account of this thing you have done, and have not withheld your son, your only son, that blessing I will bless you, and multiplying I will multiply your seed as the stars of the heavens, and as the sand which is on the shore of the sea. And your Seed shall possess the gate of His enemies. And in your Seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed because you have obeyed My voice.
Gen 20...
We know from reading the context of Gen 20 that Abimelech actually encountered the THREE persons known as Yahweh (i.e. ‘haelohim’…. ‘all the Gods’ ; Gen 20.06).
Thus, Abimelech understood that Abraham was speaking regarding the Triune God rather than as a polytheist.
Abraham later prays to the Trinity ‘haelohim’ (all the Gods) to heal Abimelech (Gen20.17).
We know from reading the context of Gen 20 that Abimelech actually encountered the THREE persons known as Yahweh (i.e. ‘haelohim’…. ‘all the Gods’ ; Gen 20.06).
Thus, Abimelech understood that Abraham was speaking regarding the Triune God rather than as a polytheist.
Abraham later prays to the Trinity ‘haelohim’ (all the Gods) to heal Abimelech (Gen20.17).
LT, Eph 4 says this..... One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
LT who is the PERSON that will have GOD IN HIM? Imagine you know a person that has GOD IN HIM... Who is that person then? If Jesus was the SON OF GOD with GOD IN HIM... then if there is another person right now here in CC that also has GOD IN HIM, who is that person?
If God is in flesh, in ANY FLESH, who is that person?
LT who is the PERSON that will have GOD IN HIM? Imagine you know a person that has GOD IN HIM... Who is that person then? If Jesus was the SON OF GOD with GOD IN HIM... then if there is another person right now here in CC that also has GOD IN HIM, who is that person?
If God is in flesh, in ANY FLESH, who is that person?