Old Testament Foreshadows of NT Water Baptism

[Wansvic]

Wrong understanding there. Man is born of water (woman's water breaks during birth) and of Spirit (reborn through Holy Spirit baptism upon repentance.)
You people always leave out verse 6:
5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

6That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.



7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

The parallel seen in all detailed conversion accounts is clear. Both water baptism in the name of Jesus, and receiving the Holy Ghost were recorded. The conversion experiences align with Ezekiel 36:25-27, where God promises to sprinkle clean water to cleanse His people and put a new Spirit within them. Jesus criticizes Nicodemus for being a teacher of Israel and not understanding this.

Also, if Jesus meant one's natural birth there would be no need for this stipulation. Think about it. Unless you are born, and born of the Spirit you can not enter the kingdom of God?

 

[Wansvic]

BTW, your reliance on the Law of Moses for man to receive eternal life is flawed in and of itself.
Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Romans 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit

Jesus fulfilled the Law. It was never intended for salvation of mankind. It was intended to make man aware of his sinful state, and to bring him under judgement.
Romans, Chapter 4:
13For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

14For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:

15Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

16Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

There is ONLY ONE thing that can cleanse man of his sin and give him eternal life and that is the precious blood of Jesus. Water baptism NEVER WILL provide man forgiveness of sin or give him eternal salvation!!!!

A foreshadow acts as a warning or indication of a future event.

 

[Wansvic]

Man never interferes with God's plan...Daniel 4:35.

A prime biblical example of how human freewill and stubborn unbelief can limit the expression of God's grace and power is Mark 6, and its parallel account in Matthew 13:

"He could not do any miracles there, except lay his hands on a few sick people and heal them. He was amazed at their lack of faith" Mark 6:5-6


"And when he was come into his own country, he taught them in their synagogue, insomuch that they were astonished, and said, Whence hath this man this wisdom, and these mighty works?
Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?
And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things?
And they were offended in him. But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, save in his own country, and in his own house.
And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief." Matt 13:54-58


It was the people's lack of faith, not a lack of divine power, that created a barrier to God's work.

 

[Wansvic]

Man never interferes with God's plan...Daniel 4:35.

In addition...

The Bible teaches that God is sovereign and all-powerful, yet He has chosen to deal with mankind through free moral agency. As a result, people can resist His Spirit (Acts 7:51), reject His counsel (Luke 7:30), limit what He desires to do for them (Psalm 78:41), and forfeit promised blessings through unbelief (Heb. 3:19). God's will is often expressed as what He desires to do, but human free will determines whether individuals receive or reject what He offers.

The Bible teaches that God is sovereign and all-powerful, yet He has chosen to deal with mankind through free moral agency. As a result, people can resist His Spirit (Acts 7:51), reject His counsel (Luke 7:30), limit what He desires to do for them (Psalm 78:41), and forfeit promised blessings through unbelief (Heb. 3:19). God's will is often expressed as what He desires to do, but human free will determines whether individuals receive or reject what He offers.

The following scriptures show that God's provision was available, but human unbelief and refusal prevented its fulfillment in their lives.:

"Yea, they turned back and tempted God, and limited the Holy One of Israel." (Psalm 78:41)

"And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life." (John 5:40)

 

[Cameron143]

A prime biblical example of how human freewill and stubborn unbelief can limit the expression of God's grace and power is Mark 6, and its parallel account in Matthew 13:

"He could not do any miracles there, except lay his hands on a few sick people and heal them. He was amazed at their lack of faith" Mark 6:5-6


"And when he was come into his own country, he taught them in their synagogue, insomuch that they were astonished, and said, Whence hath this man this wisdom, and these mighty works?
Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?
And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things?
And they were offended in him. But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, save in his own country, and in his own house.
And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief." Matt 13:54-58


It was the people's lack of faith, not a lack of divine power, that created a barrier to God's work.

God chooses not to do certain things if certain conditions are not met, but it's God's choice... He DOES His WILL in the armies of heaven and amongst the inhabitants of the earth, and none shall stay His hand...

God is never limited by man. If God doesn't do something, it is because He chooses not to. He is sovereign in the affairs of man.

 

[Cameron143]

In addition...

The Bible teaches that God is sovereign and all-powerful, yet He has chosen to deal with mankind through free moral agency. As a result, people can resist His Spirit (Acts 7:51), reject His counsel (Luke 7:30), limit what He desires to do for them (Psalm 78:41), and forfeit promised blessings through unbelief (Heb. 3:19). God's will is often expressed as what He desires to do, but human free will determines whether individuals receive or reject what He offers.

The Bible teaches that God is sovereign and all-powerful, yet He has chosen to deal with mankind through free moral agency. As a result, people can resist His Spirit (Acts 7:51), reject His counsel (Luke 7:30), limit what He desires to do for them (Psalm 78:41), and forfeit promised blessings through unbelief (Heb. 3:19). God's will is often expressed as what He desires to do, but human free will determines whether individuals receive or reject what He offers.

The following scriptures show that God's provision was available, but human unbelief and refusal prevented its fulfillment in their lives.:

"Yea, they turned back and tempted God, and limited the Holy One of Israel." (Psalm 78:41)

"And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life." (John 5:40)

People can resist God. They cannot alter the will of God.

The cross itself is evidence that God works through the choices of men. Read Acts 2:23.

The subject of free will is a whole other topic. While men can make choices, those choices are limited by his nature.

 

[GWH]

Again, re the OP let us be aware that the main OT practice foreshadowing water baptism (WB)
was physical circumcision (PC), which Paul indicated should be understood spiritually/symbolically
(per Rom. 2:17-29, 4:1-25, cf. Phil. 3:2-3, Col. 2:11-23) as portraying Spirit baptism (SB)
in Eph. 4:4-6, 1Cor. 12:13, Rom. 5:5, 8:9.

 

[Charlesiii]

A lack of faith and obedience did factor into the situation. The account does show that man can interfere with God's plans. However, that doesn't change the fact that people would be cut off for breaking God's covenant.

"Any uncircumcised male who is not circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin shall be cut off from his people; he has broken my covenant.” Gen. 17:14.

Genesis 15:6 And he [Abram] believed in the Lord; and he counted it to him for righteousness.
Romans 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

 

[GWH]

People can resist God. They cannot alter the will of God.

The cross itself is evidence that God works through the choices of men. Read Acts 2:23.

The subject of free will is a whole other topic. While men can make choices, those choices are limited by his nature.

Yes, souls can resist God's will because His will is that they have MFW instead of being slaves or robots.
Souls can either accept Jesus as Messiah/Savior or reject him (John 8:42-44).
Some souls choose to demean God's loving nature by believing He hates humanity and unjustly elects only some.

 

[Cameron143]

Yes, souls can resist God's will because His will is that they have MFW instead of being slaves or robots.
Souls can either accept Jesus as Messiah/Savior or reject him (John 8:42-44).
Some souls choose to demean God's loving nature by believing He hates humanity and unjustly elects only some.

Man can make choices. The ability to make choices is not free will. My dog can choose to eat or not eat the food I provide. I've never seen her put on an evening gown and join us at the table.

What you state is directly contrary to Daniel 4:35 wherein God states that no beings in heaven or earth inhibits God from accomplishing His will.

For someone who spends so much time chastising others to harmonize scripture, you spend too little time following your own advice.

 

[GWH]

Man can make choices. The ability to make choices is not free will. My dog can choose to eat or not eat the food I provide. I've never seen her put on an evening gown and join us at the table.

What you state is directly contrary to Daniel 4:35 wherein God states that no beings in heaven or earth inhibits God from accomplishing His will.

For someone who spends so much time chastising others to harmonize scripture, you spend too little time following your own advice.

You just made choices to write every word in your post.
No one forced you to write it; you wrote it of your own free will.

Apparently you do not realize that the M in MFW distinguishes you from dogs,
so it would behoove you to include it from now on.

Harmonize Dan. 4:35 with 1Tim. 2:3-4 & Deut. 30:19.

 

[Cameron143]

You just made choices to write every word in your post.
No one forced you to write it; you wrote it of your own free will.

Apparently you do not realize that the M in MFW distinguishes you from dogs,
so it would behoove you to include it from now on.

Harmonize Dan. 4:35 with 1Tim. 2:3-4 & Deut. 30:19.

Man's choices may be more extensive than dogs choices, but they are still limited. Free will requires the ability to make every choice; not simply the choices available to any nature. My dog's inability to choose to join us for dinner is due to her nature. Man's inability to frustrate God's will is likewise due to his nature. Regardless of what God wills, nothing can frustrate God's will from coming to pass. Otherwise, God is not sovereign.

So...when faith is lacking and God does not perform miracles, has God lost His ability to perform miracles? No, of course not. It was God who chose not to do miracles when faith was not present. It is God who said the just shall live by faith and not sight. So by God refusing to perform miracles in the absence of faith, God is performing His will.

 

[GWH]

Man's choices may be more extensive than dogs choices, but they are still limited. Free will requires the ability to make every choice; not simply the choices available to any nature. My dog's inability to choose to join us for dinner is due to her nature. Man's inability to frustrate God's will is likewise due to his nature. Regardless of what God wills, nothing can frustrate God's will from coming to pass. Otherwise, God is not sovereign.

So...when faith is lacking and God does not perform miracles, has God lost His ability to perform miracles? No, of course not. It was God who chose not to do miracles when faith was not present. It is God who said the just shall live by faith and not sight. So by God refusing to perform miracles in the absence of faith, God is performing His will.

Human choices are qualitatively different from those of animals, because they are made with God-consciousness and moral conscience.
Omni-will is a qualitative difference between humanity and divinity.
God's will was not to create mere robots or slaves, which humans can do,
but rather to create souls who could grieve Him via choosing to sin/ignore GW, beginning with A&E.
God's sovereignty is expressed via His wrath/hell, the just consequence for rejecting His righteousness.
God's continuous miracle is creation.

 

[Cameron143]

Human choices are qualitatively different from those of animals, because they are made with God-consciousness and moral conscience.
Omni-will is a qualitative difference between humanity and divinity.
God's will was not to create mere robots or slaves, which humans can do,
but rather to create souls who could grieve Him via choosing to sin/ignore GW, beginning with A&E.
God's sovereignty is expressed via His wrath/hell, the just consequence for rejecting His righteousness.
God's continuous miracle is creation.

Grace and peace.

 

[Magenta]

Grace and peace.

They deny what is said of the natural man being incapable. That means no free will, but they will not admit it.

John 14 v 17a, Romans 8 v 6-9 ~ “Inability” in Bible. The world cannot receive the Spirit of truth. The mind of the flesh is death, but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind of the flesh is hostile to God: It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the flesh cannot please God. You, however, are controlled not by the flesh, but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. Praise be to God for calling me out of the world.

 

[Cameron143]

They deny what is said of the natural man being incapable. That means no free will, but they will not admit it.

Free will requires the ability to make any choice, and not simply choices available due to nature.

 

[Magenta]

Free will requires the ability to make any choice, and not simply choices available due to nature.

The definition of free will contradicts the Bible, plain and simple. But that type loves making up their own definitions.

 

[GWH]

Grace and peace.

You're welcome.

 

[GWH]

They deny what is said of the natural man being incapable. That means no free will, but they will not admit it.

John 14 v 17a, Romans 8 v 6-9 ~ “Inability” in Bible. The world cannot receive the Spirit of truth. The mind of the flesh is death, but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind of the flesh is hostile to God: It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the flesh cannot please God. You, however, are controlled not by the flesh, but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. Praise be to God for calling me out of the world.

If sinners cannot repent, then Paul wasted a lot of hot air!

The problem is you juxtaposing John 14:17a and Rom. 8:6-9 instead of harmonizing them.

The harmonization per GW such as John 3:16 is that those who reject the Gospel/Jesus as Messiah
cannot please God until/unless they repent and seek His will, which is also indicated in 1Tim. 2:3-4.

Make an art picture of THAT!

 

[God-fearing]

I've seen so many threads on this , so much debated, my question is does it really matter to understand the purpose of it?
To define the exact reason of it.
Our Lord commanded it to be done, that in its self should settle the matter.
I've seen hundreds of post all different in the whys of baptism, then there are some that say its not necessary.
Jesus the son of God...Lord of lord...King of kings sought John the Baptist out for this very reason.... to be baptized.
Now it would surly behoove everyone to be baptized if they indeed want to follow Jesus...but alas some would disagree