Once saved, always saved. Chosen elect of God?

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Ariel82 said:
No it's not true, many can make an outward show of it, but without the Holy Spirit the WHY is vastly different.

Do you do good works out of love or fear of God?
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gratitude and thanskgiving is what I always understood it to be, this causes us to love because he first loved us.
 
If your false you going to burn. If your a bad tree with no fruit Jesus says he will throw you in the fire.
 
Roughsoul1991 said:
That's fine. I'm just curious if they believe God will save a person once saved but never tried to follow God or live for God.
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We believe that person has never been saved, because they never repented, abd hat denuin faith in God, if they did, they would have produced fruit..

Or do you think salvation will save a guy who goes to church one hour a week and that's the only time he thinks of God. Then when he gets out he goes eat at a restaurant and the week of no God starts all over.
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we do not sit around looking at possibilities to see who is saved or who is not saved, that is for God to decide
 
garee said:
The one that causes the growth.Not of our own self, lest any man boast in false, empty pride.
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So Jesus moves your arm for you? He said Jesus produces the work. Well who does the work he had gave us. We would do the work in honor of God
 
The bible is clear.....OSAS is biblical....

a) Jesus begins a good work and Jesus is the ONE who finishes the work
b) Salvation is based upon the FINISHED work of Christ....YOU cannot add to something that is FINISHED ALREADY
c) The BLOOD is applied BY faith
d) False teachers are compared to 3 men in JUDE, Cain, 1st on the list offered his WORKS and was rejected
e) The Salvation, justification sanctification (positionally in Christ) and SEALED are all tied to ETERNAL and EVERLASTING
f) Christ cannot DENY HIMSELF EVEN if we walk AWAY in REBELLION
g) In the FATHER's HAND, in Christ's HAND and SEALED
h) JESUS said he would LOSE NOTHING the FATHER hath given him but would RAISE IT UP last day
I) If salvation can be lost it cannot be regained (all are doomed) because ALL sin at one time or another
J) NOTHING can separate us form the LOVE OF GOD
k) Jesus said he would NEVER leave us or FORSAKE US never means (NEVER)
l) DAVID murdered a man and was not FORSAKEN
m) GOD whips ALL children who rebel, but does not cast them OFF
n) THE prodigal was a SON throughout the whole process
0) MANY who are saved will have works of wood, hay and stubble (worldly) yet STILL SAVED
p) SOME are cut lose for the destruction of the FLESH but are still SAVED
q) We are born of INCORRUPTABLE SEED
r) Ecclesiastes 3:14 WHATSOEVER GOD DOES IT IS EVERLASTING (including SALVATION)
s) JESUS said it is FINISHED<----means PAID IN FULL>>>>MY DEBT IS ALREADY PAID and FORGIVEN in Christ

on and on and on and on.......
 
eternally-gratefull said:
We believe that person has never been saved, because they never repented, abd hat denuin faith in God, if they did, they would have produced fruit..



we do not sit around looking at possibilities to see who is saved or who is not saved, that is for God to decide
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The point is, are the actions biblical to being saved?
 
Roughsoul1991 said:
Amen agree again. I was speaking to not the real saved but the misguided saved that does not produce good works by their faith.
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amen,

and again, I would just show the misguided the true gospel to try to get the to repent and have genuine faith. And see if they are truly saved or not. I think many are so fed up with some churches, they just feel it is better to stay home, because they have been misled..
 
Your stirring up old grudges Peter, not talking to you until you post something relevant to current conversation, WITHOUT the bitterness of unforgiveness of the past embedded in your words.

I have seen you do it.

This bitterness will eat you up, you need to give it to God and lay it at the foot of the cross. All the hurt and abuse you believe you have suffered, lay it on the cross. Let it die and be born again into a time of forgiveness, love and reconciliation.
 
OSAS - saved
Non-OSAS - unbelief, not saved

Now this is the ethics of one group.
Are they honest enough to admit this is the only point they are wasting everyones
time to make?

I do not think they are, because they believe this is everything, upon which the
Kingdom of Heaven hangs. From my perspective this has all the hallmarks of being
a cult and being a kind of brain washing. The personal attacks and abuse also
go along with the principle is to break people, not win them over in love to
redeem their souls through forgiveness of their sins through Christ and the cross.
 
dcontroversal said:
The bible is clear.....OSAS is biblical....

a) Jesus begins a good work and Jesus is the ONE who finishes the work
b) Salvation is based upon the FINISHED work of Christ....YOU cannot add to something that is FINISHED ALREADY
c) The BLOOD is applied BY faith
d) False teachers are compared to 3 men in JUDE, Cain, 1st on the list offered his WORKS and was rejected
e) The Salvation, justification sanctification (positionally in Christ) and SEALED are all tied to ETERNAL and EVERLASTING
f) Christ cannot DENY HIMSELF EVEN if we walk AWAY in REBELLION
g) In the FATHER's HAND, in Christ's HAND and SEALED
h) JESUS said he would LOSE NOTHING the FATHER hath given him but would RAISE IT UP last day
I) If salvation can be lost it cannot be regained (all are doomed) because ALL sin at one time or another
J) NOTHING can separate us form the LOVE OF GOD
k) Jesus said he would NEVER leave us or FORSAKE US never means (NEVER)
l) DAVID murdered a man and was not FORSAKEN
m) GOD whips ALL children who rebel, but does not cast them OFF
n) THE prodigal was a SON throughout the whole process
0) MANY who are saved will have works of wood, hay and stubble (worldly) yet STILL SAVED
p) SOME are cut lose for the destruction of the FLESH but are still SAVED
q) We are born of INCORRUPTABLE SEED
r) Ecclesiastes 3:14 WHATSOEVER GOD DOES IT IS EVERLASTING (including SALVATION)
s) JESUS said it is FINISHED<----means PAID IN FULL>>>>MY DEBT IS ALREADY PAID and FORGIVEN in Christ

on and on and on and on.......
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Your wrong a person can deny Christ and lose salvation. If they have no faith in God that they once worshipped.
 
FranC said:
[/B]
Mailman,
Can we not say that they are united because one causes the other??
We are saved FOR good works, not by good works.
OK.
But if good works MUST follow as even a sign, as some will say, then could we not say that God requires also the good works?

Did Jesus not speak about being cut off of the vine of it does not bear fruit?
I fail to grasp the difference between what you are saying and what I'm saying.

It seems like we're saying the same thing, but then you seem to put works down in some way...
I only persist because I think this is dangerous for some out there who want to be Christian and do what they want, or do nothing, and still be a member of the Kingdom. So this is more for those following along than for you.

Fran
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no,because when you use the word require, you are putting your self into the equation. and saying you save yourself. thuus you can boast and take credit, because it is your work.

Not of works lest we boast.

We are saved by Gods work,

As saved, we are transformed into knew creatures, which are made for good works..

the works are a result of our salvation, it is not salvation is a result of works, If works are required, then salvation is a result of works.
 
Ariel82 said:
Your stirring up old grudges Peter, not talking to you until you post something relevant to current conversation, WITHOUT the bitterness of unforgiveness of the past embedded in your words.

I have seen you do it.

This bitterness will eat you up, you need to give it to God and lay it at the foot of the cross. All the hurt and abuse you believe you have suffered, lay it on the cross. Let it die and be born again into a time of forgiveness, love and reconciliation.
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Ariel - What is absurd, is a group just labelling people and pushing their religious
view as if this is the truth, and only the deceived will not recognise it.

I met the same insanity with muslims. They would repeat the same brain washed
simplistic acceptance of dogma and just repeat it, even when shown it was totally
flawed and a lie. So I am just highlighting the foundations of someones motivation
and how they look at the world, and nothing else matters to them, at all, in any
other interactions.
 
But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. Matthew 24:13
Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ. 2Timothy 2:3
 
eternally-gratefull said:
YES. This is what scripture teaches Amen!

But the good works do not save us, The faith does.

Those who have Genuine faith will produce good works.

as apposed to those who are just hearers, and believe, but have no faith (even demons believe) as proven by the fact they have no works.
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I am curious - I have been and am still trying to decipher the differences in views here (and of course then what is biblical).

I agree with the statements made above by EG, but I was also struck by an earlier line by FranC - "I wish works wasn't a dirty word." - I think I know what she means - it seems that whenever (I know it isn't always! :) )someone talks about works on CC they are accused of being legalistic, etc.

EG says above that "genuine faith will produce good works" - I agree with this completely - but I think it is not "automatic".

Here is what I mean: True Biblical faith will produce good works to some degree - maybe twenty-fold, or fifty-fold, or one-hundred fold. But to say that if a person is saved that then they will automatically do and keep doing good deeds just isn't so. Paul often spends half of his epistles in practical teaching on how to live. We need instruction and knowledge on how to live.
 
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