Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

[Pilgrimshope]

First thought? Those who know their Salvation is irrevocable because it was a free gift through God's grace. Because we are called by God into the Salvation of Christ Jesus.

So it has nothing to do with hearing and believing the gospel ? Or getting baptized for remission of sins ? Receiving the Holy Spirit and walking in the spirit ?

don’t we first have to hear the gospel in order to believe and be saved ?

So for instance this has nothing to do with it ?

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and this has nothing to do with it ?

“Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:16-18, 22-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

so it wouldn’t matter who we choose to serve whether sin leading to death or righteousness leading to life ? That’s all irrelevant the thkngs Christ actually said ? We should just believe we’re saved no matter what we do ?


What would you say about getting baptized ? Is that un necassary work even though Christ ties it to salvetion and remission of sins ?

 

[Icedaisey]

So it has nothing to do with hearing and believing the gospel ? Or getting baptized for remission of sins ? Receiving the Holy Spirit and walking in the spirit ?

don’t we first have to hear the gospel in order to believe and be saved ?

So for instance this has nothing to do with it ?

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and this has nothing to do with it ?

“Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:16-18, 22-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

so it wouldn’t matter who we choose to serve whether sin leading to death or righteousness leading to life ? That’s all irrelevant the thkngs Christ actually said ? We should just believe we’re saved no matter what we do ?


What would you say about getting baptized ? Is that un necassary work even though Christ ties it to salvetion and remission of sins ?

You asked, What is a true believer in Christ in your view ?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

“Mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name” (Isaiah 45:4)

Agreed.
eklektos

bachiyr

Acts 2:23
“Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain.”


1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To God's elect, exiles scattered throughout the provinces of Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia, 2 who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to be obedient to Jesus Christ and sprinkled with his blood: Grace and peace be yours in abundance.

What do you make of this clear statement

“Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God.

He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:”
‭‭2 John‬ ‭1:9-10‬ ‭KJV‬

do you think it sort of fits here

“Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.”
‭‭John‬ ‭14:23-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

do you think it’s important for someone to accept Christs doctrine ? Because after all isn’t it this

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I’m not positive how a random verse from any epistle changes any of that clarity does it ? Knowing the spirit they refer to comes from his doctrine ?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

You asked, What is a true believer in Christ in your view ?

right and I was asking you don’t think those things apply ? Just another question why should we believe what isn’t there and not believe what is there ? How is that a true believer is what I’m getting at

 

[Pilgrimshope]

You asked, What is a true believer in Christ in your view ?

actually I think I sort of see what your saying and see where it’s going lol I’ve been in circles a lot lately and probably should let you folks determine what true believers are for yourself

 

[justbyfaith]

There are three legs upon which OSAS stands or falls. Do these verses mean what they supposedly mean, or have they been misunderstood and misapplied? When we examine them next to other scriptures that clearly contradict them will they hold up? Let's see.

First, 1 John 2:19—"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us."

The OSAS interpretation of this verse says that those who "went out" were never in Christ to begin with; they were never saved. However, I suggest there's another meaning that conforms very well with other scriptures. This view says that those who "went out" were indeed saved and in Christ at one point, but were simply not as committed as the others. It's in this sense that they were not "of us." These are those spoken of in the parable of the sower (Matthew 13:5-6): "Other seeds fell on rocky ground, where they did not have much soil, and immediately they sprang up, since they had no depth of soil, but when the sun rose they were scorched. And since they had no root, they withered away." It sprang up, it had life to start with; but it "withered away."

Jesus' explanation of this passage is found in Matthew 13:20-21—"As for what was sown on rocky ground, this is the one who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy, yet he has no root in himself, but endures for a while, and when tribulation or persecution arises on account of the word, immediately he falls away."

Second is 1 John 3:6—"No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him."

This seems pretty cut and dried: if someone turns away back into sin they never knew Him. But we have to understand this in light of other scriptures that contradict it. Those who "never knew Him," never had a proper understanding of Him. This corresponds to the first group in the parable of the sower: "When anyone hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what has been sown in his heart." The seed was "sown in his heart," but was snatched away because of this person's lack of understanding.

Third is John 10:28—"I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand." I agree with this verse: no one can indeed snatch them out of His hand. However, the person himself can walk away. For this reason I prefer the phrase "forfeit salvation" to "lose salvation."

Now let's look at some scriptures that plainly talk about walking away and falling away. I'm not going to use Hebrews because Hebrews is fiercely objected to by those who advocate OSAS, even though is has many relevant warnings about falling away. But Hebrews isn't necessary—there are plenty of others.

2 Peter 2:20-21—"For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them."

This passage clearly illustrates a person who was once in Christ but who turned their back on Him. This shows a conscious action on the part of the one turning back. These verses correspond with Luke 9:26: "Jesus said to him, 'No one who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is fit for the kingdom of God.' "

Matthew 24:10—"And then many will fall away and betray one another and hate one another."

1 Timothy 4:1—"Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons."

Matthew 24:13—"But the one who endures to the end will be saved."

Why say that those who endure to the end will be saved? If one cannot forfeit their salvation, why didn't He say "But all who have prayed the sinners prayer will be saved?"

Luke 9:26—"Jesus said to him, 'No one who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is fit for the kingdom of God.' "

Already mentioned, Luke 9:26 is a clear warning from the Lord about falling away.

It is often said of John 10:27-30 that a person can walk away himself and if he does so he will lose his salvation.

To that I am in agreement.

However, I would say that the Bible provides a safeguard, in Jeremiah 32:38-40 and Psalms 19:9, so that the one who fears the LORD (see Job 28:28) will never walk away.

I would suggest looking up these verses in the kjv.

 

[Justified]

Do you believe Christ died for our sins as the gospel of your salvation ?

1Co 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
1Co 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

For you to be saved you must believe this gospel alone for salvation.

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

The apostle Paul received this gospel from Christ

Gal 1:11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
Gal 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Any other gospel is not the gospel given to Paul by Christ.
Receiving Jesus as your Lord and saviour is not the gospel.
Calling upon the name of Jesus is NOT the gospel.
All these man made gospel cannot save one single soul.

Gal 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
Gal 1:7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

You must believe this gospel alone for your salvation.

2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Just one comment, you do realize that when Paul was saying about someone preaching a different gospel he was taking a stand against the Judaizers. These were Jews that were teaching that in order to be really saved you also had to keep all the OT laws. They were preaching a Gospel + works salvation.

We still see this in a number of denominations today. The added works could be speaking in tongues, being baptized or even only being saved if you are saved in there denomination.

Paul may have also been speaking against those that were teaching a different way of being save eg. Gnositicism.

 

[Evmur]

The problem with your reasoning is that you are not listening to the Lord, the Lord is truth not you. The Lord tells us sins that are not forgiven kills,that is truth. Scripture doesn't say it depends on when the unforgiven sin happens, sin today is the very same sin as sin tomorrow. The Lord says unforgiven sin kills.

When did you/will you sin? when did Jesus bare your sins in His own body on the tree?

You can no longer preach like Paul preached to Phillipian jailor, you can't say "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved."

 

[Hann57]

Paul writes

Gal 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
"If any man preach any other gospel". He did not specify any particular group.

 

[mailmandan]

lol yeah you know how you explain everything away forminstance you went on a long explaination of this and explained it right away ? That’s not how to understand anything this actually is

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.”

‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭6:4-8‬

I explained nothing away, but instead, properly harmonized scripture with scripture before reaching my conclusion on doctrine. Be sure to go back and throughly read through post #450 again.

THIS IS ACTUALLY HOW TO UNDERSTAND IT

Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.”

‭‭John‬ ‭15:2-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

So we can either hear Christs word which is the truth or reject it and explain Our own delusions coming from a grace book That’s lead us far astray

I noticed that you cite all the same verses that works-salvationists cite (including Roman Catholics, Mormons and SDA's) in their efforts to promote eternal IN-security and "type 2 works salvation." In John 15:2, Jesus mentions branches that bear no fruit and branches that bear fruit but Jesus says nothing about branches that bear fruit but then later stop bearing fruit.

When Jesus spoke these words in John 15, how many people at that time, prior to Him being glorified, had received the Holy Spirit and were baptized by one Spirit into one body? - "the body of Christ?" (1 Corinthians 12:13) -- NONE.

John 7:38 - He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water. 39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified. So "in me" is part of the metaphor of the vine (in the vine) and not in the body of Christ under the new covenant which was not yet fully established. Without that vital union with Christ, there can be no spiritual life and no productivity. Those who profess to know Christ but whose relationship to Him is self-attached, Christ neither saved them, nor preserves them. Eventually, the dead self-attached fruitless branches (like Judas Iscariot) are cut off.

The 11 remaining disciples were clean. Was Judas Iscariot clean? No (John 13:10-11). Was he cut off? Yes. Was he saved? No. The Greek word for "abide" is "meno" which means to remain, tarry, not to depart, continue to be present.

As Greek scholar AT Robertson points out - there are two kinds of connections with Christ as the vine (the merely cosmic which bears no fruit, the spiritual and vital which bears fruit). Probably (Bernard) Jesus here refers to Judas.

https://www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/robertsons-word-pictures/john/john-15.html

 

[mailmandan]

properly interpreting is explaining it away based on Joseph prince and Paul Ellis and not on Christs word ?

I don't follow Joseph Prince or Paul Ellis and I will stick with Biblical hermeneutics.

 

[mailmandan]

[we can be confident but that’s a condition based upon our abiding in the gospel of we abide in him we’re safe if we go elsewhere and deny his word we don’t have anything but judgement ahead

Abiding in Christ is not a special level of Christian experience that is only available to a few, elite Christians, but is the position of all true believers. 1 John 4:13 - By this we know that we abide in Him and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit.

 

[justpassinthrough]

FreeGrace2 said:
James wasn't even discussing "saving faith". He was discussing that believers NEED TO demonstrate their faith to others so that others can see their faith.

Of course it does, but you are missing James' point. 2:18 proves that the ONLY WAY to show or demonstrate your faith is to have deeds or works.


OK, here are some verses that deal with being justified or approved in the eyes of others.

James’ justification is in the eyes of others.

Col 4:5 - Be wise in the way you act toward outsiders; make the most of every opportunity.

Rom 12:17 - Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everyone.

Rom 14:18 - because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and receives human approval.

Luke 16:15 - He said to them (pharisees), you are the ones who justifiy yourselves in the eyes of men, but God knows your hearts. What is highly valued among men is detestable in God's sight.

1 Pet 2:12 - Keep your behavior excellent among the Gentiles, so that in the thing in which they slander you as evildoers, they may because of your good deeds, as they observe them, glorify God in the day of visitation.

Clearly Peter is emphasizing that believers who live out their faith, not being hypocrites, will have a positive effect upon unbelievers.

1 Pet 2:15 - For it is God’s will that by doing good you should silence the ignorant talk of foolish people.

Notice that is our ACTIONS (deeds) that silence others. iow, they SEE what we do.

1 Thess 4:12 - so that your daily life may win the respect of outsiders and so that you will not be dependent on anybody.

Respect = approval = justification in the eyes of men

1 Tim 3:7 - He must also have a good reputation with outsiders, so that he will not fall into disgrace and into the devil’s trap.

Again, respect, approval, justification in the eyes of men

2 Cor 8:21 - For we are taking pains to do what is right, not only in the eyes of the Lord but also in the eyes of man.

If this verse doesn't convince you, you don't want to be.

iow, if you want to convince others that you are a Christian, or have faith, you'd better have deeds/works to demonstate your faith.

You can argue all you want, but what I've presented is solid truth. You can reject it, but you can't refute it.

You took a bunch of one liners from other passages (not the context) and tried to apply them to James 2:21.


Just another reason why your doctrine is not acceptable.



Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? James 2:21


Faith came to Abraham from God, when He told Abraham to offer his son Isaac n the altar.


Abraham was declared to righteous (justified) when he obeyed the word of God to offer his son Issac.


God is the only one who declares people to be righteous; right with Him.


Faith without the corresponding action of obedience is incomplete and dead;
dormant, inactive and unable to produce the intended divine result, whether salvation, healing, getting an ark built or miracles.



For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
James 2:26




JPT

 

[rayzor]

You took a bunch of one liners from other passages (not the context) and tried to apply them to James 2:21.


Just another reason why your doctrine is not acceptable.



Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? James 2:21


Faith came to Abraham from God, when He told Abraham to offer his son Isaac n the altar.


Abraham was declared to righteous (justified) when he obeyed the word of God to offer his son Issac.


God is the only one who declares people to be righteous; right with Him.


Faith without the corresponding action of obedience is incomplete and dead;
dormant, inactive and unable to produce the intended divine result, whether salvation, healing, getting an ark built or miracles.



For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
James 2:26




JPT

It's called totality....not context for say...context is only one piece of the puzzle....yes many people take many different passages to complete and idea and sometimes get it wrong.

 

[FreeGrace2]

You took a bunch of one liners from other passages (not the context) and tried to apply them to James 2:21.

To be CLEAR, I quoted VERSES, not your snarky "one liners". Is that really how you view Scripture that refutes you?

btw, here si 2:21 - Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar?

I never addressed that verse. I did address the major point James was making about faith and works. A dead faith produces no works.

Just another reason why your doctrine is not acceptable.

You seem rather clueless.

Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? James 2:21

Do you really believe v.21 refers to justification in the sense of salvation? iow, do you believe that Abraham received salvation WHEN he offered his son on an altar???

Faith came to Abraham from God, when He told Abraham to offer his son Isaac n the altar.

THis is obviously an opinion, since there are NO verses that support such a claim.

Abraham was declared to righteous (justified) when he obeyed the word of God to offer his son Issac.

Please become more familiar with the Bible. Abraham was declared to be righteous regarding the PROMISE of a son.

Gen 15-
1 After this, the word of the LORD came to Abram in a vision: “Do not be afraid, Abram. I am your shield,your very great reward. ”
2 But Abram said, “Sovereign LORD, what can you give me since I remain childless and the one who will inherit my estate is Eliezer of Damascus?”
3 And Abram said, “You have given me no children; so a servant in my household will be my heir.”
4 Then the word of the LORD came to him: “This man will not be your heir, but a son who is your own flesh and blood will be your heir.”
5 He took him outside and said, “Look up at the sky and count the stars—if indeed you can count them.” Then he said to him, “So shall your offspring be.”
6 Abram believed the LORD, and he credited it to him as righteousness.

Red words are God's PROMISE to Abraham about having an heir (Isaac).
Blue words show Abraham's response to God's PROMISE: He believed the Lord. And the Lord "credited it to him as righteousness".

Faith without the corresponding action of obedience is incomplete and dead;

Why do you ADD to Scripture? What verse says "incomplete"?

dormant, inactive and unable to produce the intended divine result

"divine result"???? Really? What verse says this? None do. It seems you just like to make stuff up.

 

[rayzor]

To be CLEAR, I quoted VERSES, not your snarky "one liners". Is that really how you view Scripture that refutes you?

btw, here si 2:21 - Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar?

I never addressed that verse. I did address the major point James was making about faith and works. A dead faith produces no works.


You seem rather clueless.


Do you really believe v.21 refers to justification in the sense of salvation? iow, do you believe that Abraham received salvation WHEN he offered his son on an altar???


THis is obviously an opinion, since there are NO verses that support such a claim.


Please become more familiar with the Bible. Abraham was declared to be righteous regarding the PROMISE of a son.

Gen 15-
1 After this, the word of the LORD came to Abram in a vision: “Do not be afraid, Abram. I am your shield,your very great reward. ”
2 But Abram said, “Sovereign LORD, what can you give me since I remain childless and the one who will inherit my estate is Eliezer of Damascus?”
3 And Abram said, “You have given me no children; so a servant in my household will be my heir.”
4 Then the word of the LORD came to him: “This man will not be your heir, but a son who is your own flesh and blood will be your heir.”
5 He took him outside and said, “Look up at the sky and count the stars—if indeed you can count them.” Then he said to him, “So shall your offspring be.”
6 Abram believed the LORD, and he credited it to him as righteousness.

Red words are God's PROMISE to Abraham about having an heir (Isaac).
Blue words show Abraham's response to God's PROMISE: He believed the Lord. And the Lord "credited it to him as righteousness".


Why do you ADD to Scripture? What verse says "incomplete"?


"divine result"???? Really? What verse says this? None do. It seems you just like to make stuff up.

FreeGrace2 you seem static & contentious maybe even afraid to put thing in your own words why?Are not the results of grace devine....i'm not sure..but is faith the same as believing thus when you have faith you have salvation?..of course the right kind of faith.

 

[Icedaisey]

actually I think I sort of see what your saying and see where it’s going lol I’ve been in circles a lot lately and probably should let you folks determine what true believers are for yourself

right and I was asking you don’t think those things apply ? Just another question why should we believe what isn’t there and not believe what is there ? How is that a true believer is what I’m getting at

You initially asked, What is a true believer in Christ in your view ?
Your comments after in your post 481 presupposed my answer did not take your post 481 points into consideration.
However, when your question was about Christians all those points are already reconciled in the believer.

 

[Icedaisey]

What do you make of this clear statement

“Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God.

He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:”
‭‭2 John‬ ‭1:9-10‬ ‭KJV‬

do you think it sort of fits here

“Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.”
‭‭John‬ ‭14:23-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

do you think it’s important for someone to accept Christs doctrine ? Because after all isn’t it this

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I’m not positive how a random verse from any epistle changes any of that clarity does it ? Knowing the spirit they refer to comes from his doctrine ?

Those passages are differentiating between those who believe and those who don't.

I guess at this stage it's necessary to ask, what's your point?
What do you believe?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

so this doesn’t apply ?

“But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

For there is no respect of persons with God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:5-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I’m not sure that Jesus dying and raising up is going to save us if we reject his word I’d rather know this and repent

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

do you see how he gave us a promise there ? It’s based on accepting his word just as all of creation came from his word the new creation does also . I’m pretty sure that Satan knows Jesus does and rose and even his angels know he died and rose but they won’t repent and be saved they reject his word like many do and it leaves them here the only condemnation available

“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.”
‭‭John‬ ‭12:48-50‬ ‭KJV‬‬


If we want assurance we have to believe the gospel Jesus taught and said “ this is eternal life “ his death covers the worlds sin completely but not everyone is saved only those who repent and believe the gospel

assurance is found in his words it’s there but not if we make it what it isn’t

It’s sad you think your self effort works will cause god to look at you and say yes my son I take all these works as payment for sin. Enter into heaven you have paid your sin debt

 

[eternally-gratefull]

that’s one way to interpret it I suppose

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

why was paul so concerned with persuading us of these things ? Maybe because so many distort and reject it and spread things in the church that part from the truth ?

“For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭4:3-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

FYI. No non believer will be at this judgment. They will be at the great white throne judgment after they are delivered to christ
believers at this judgment you are discussing may receive all wood hay and stubble. But they will still be saved even as through fire