Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

[Everlasting-Grace]

I certainly do not want to misrepresent what you mean. I'll rephrase, is it true that Paul thought these people
v
v
v

When my pastor teaches. He teaches as everyone is saved. But he also gives the gospel at the end. Because he does not assume they all are.

The fact is. those people rejected the gospel. Now if you have a non true believer being saved.. maybe that is the problem. Paul said they are to be damned.. I would be careful.

Did not have the Holy Spirit, were not sons of God, and had no faith in Christ Jesus?
Yes or no.

Has anyone been saved by the law?

Yes or no??

 

[ResidentAlien]

I have been looking for years..

You've been looking for the wrong thing.

 

[SonLight_Wolf]

I have been looking for years..

You can stop the search because no such verse(s) exist.

Once you are born again and all that that entails it is eternal.

No matter what works salvationists say. You are saved by God.
God is not a man that he should lie.
Works salvation is the falsehood of man and ego. Not of God.

Find peace. You can't lose what God chose you for.

 

[Rosemaryx]

I have been looking for years..

I find the more I read and study , the more I see how secure I am in Christ...Some people think they can lose Salvation , but I think they get mixed up with losing assurance of their Salvation , two completely different things...

 

[listenyoumustAll]

I find the more I read and study , the more I see how secure I am in Christ...Some people think they can lose Salvation , but I think they get mixed up with losing assurance of their Salvation , two completely different things...

I agree salvation can't be lost, Only reprobate mind can refuse salvation. Many Christians believe in Jesus but not right believing, they have a saviour in Jesus but not Lordship. God's requirement is Lord and saviour.

 

[Runningman]

Oh?
Have you never read:

Matthew 7:22-23
Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'


Did Jesus truly "never know" the ones He is talking about here?
Or is Jesus lying?

If Jesus is not a liar, and He never knew these that preached and cast out demons and healed, then through what power and authority did they do such things?

The key being “you who practice lawlessness.”

As you know, God’s gifts are irrevocable. This is talking about people who at one point had God’s glory in mind, retained their spiritual gift after committing apostasy, and became a useless servant, not doing God’s will. God’s will isn’t lawlessness then. This is a picture of Judas who apparently lost his salvation.

I still haven’t seen where you have answered my question even though I have kindly continued answering your questions. Was Judas OSAS?

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

What has yet to be debunked is this

Romans 2:6-8
God “will repay each one according to his deeds.” To those who by perseverance in doing good seek glory, honor, and immortality, He will give eternal life. But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow wickedness, there will be wrath and anger.

what is to be debunked?

those who REJECT the truth are self seeking and follow wickedness there will be wrath and anger.

I agree. as does John

4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Please refer to post #1.

been there done that.

I still have not seen evidence that debunks eternal security.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

You've been looking for the wrong thing.

I have?

Or maybe I have 4 been looking for what is eternal life. and found it can not be lost.

and on the other hand, I see people who want to work for it refuse to acknowledge it. and people who think they are stronger than God and can just give it back.

 

[Runningman]

What has yet to be debunked is this

Romans 2:6-8
God “will repay each one according to his deeds.” To those who by perseverance in doing good seek glory, honor, and immortality, He will give eternal life. But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow wickedness, there will be wrath and anger.

It means eternal life isn’t given immediately, but through perseverance in doing good, eternal life can be given to someone. It also means that it’s possible to fall short, or not be counted worthy, and face God’s wrath. Let’s be clear, God’s wrath isn’t a stern talking to. Examples of God’s wrath typically involve destroying cities or flooding the earth. What do you think He would do to an individual?

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

I find the more I read and study , the more I see how secure I am in Christ...Some people think they can lose Salvation , but I think they get mixed up with losing assurance of their Salvation , two completely different things...

satan wants us to lose assurance. If he can do that. We have less hope. with less hope. he can take us out..

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

It means eternal life isn’t given immediately, but through perseverance in doing good, eternal life can be given to someone. It also means that it’s possible to fall short, or not be counted worthy, and face God’s wrath. Let’s be clear, God’s wrath isn’t a stern talking to. Examples of God’s wrath typically involve destroying cities or flooding the earth. What do you think He would do to an individual?

then we are under law not under grace.

there are two ways to heaven according to scripture

1. The law -
2. Grace

there is no third way

 

[Runningman]

then we are under law not under grace.

there are two ways to heaven according to scripture

1. The law -
2. Grace

there is no third way

The verse we’re talking about refutes that. Where does it say the way to heaven is through grace and what must you do you access God’s grace?

 

[ResidentAlien]

and on the other hand, I see people who want to work for it refuse to acknowledge it.

Here we go again. Only those who believe in eternal security are allowed to do good works; everyone else is trying to earn salvation. Blah, blah, blah.

First go and figure out how you obtained salvation in the first place, then maybe you'll see clearly enough to understand how it can be lost.

 

[listenyoumustAll]

The key being “you who practice lawlessness.”

As you know, God’s gifts are irrevocable. This is talking about people who at one point had God’s glory in mind, retained their spiritual gift after committing apostasy, and became a useless servant, not doing God’s will. God’s will isn’t lawlessness then. This is a picture of Judas who apparently lost his salvation.

I still haven’t seen where you have answered my question even though I have kindly continued answering your questions. Was Judas OSAS?

No, he was never saved.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

The verse we’re talking about refutes that. Where does it say the way to heaven is through grace and what must you do you access God’s grace?

the verse does not refute anything.

Jesus said there is one way to heaven, and that is through him. Whoever believes has eternal life. whoever does not believe shall not see life. but the wrath of God abides in him.

why are you trying to earn a gift?? why do you think you could ever be righteous enough to earn salvation?

 

[SonLight_Wolf]

What has yet to be debunked is this

Romans 2:6-8
God “will repay each one according to his deeds.” To those who by perseverance in doing good seek glory, honor, and immortality, He will give eternal life. But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow wickedness, there will be wrath and anger.

Debunked?
It's denoting the difference between the eternally redeemed and those who remain of natural mind and die as the unregenerated fallen.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Here we go again. Only those who believe in eternal security are allowed to do good works; everyone else is trying to earn salvation. Blah, blah, blah.

Anyone can do good works.. the issue is why are you doing them?

Because your saved,

or in order to be saved?

First go and figure out how you obtained salvation in the first place, then maybe you'll see clearly enough to understand how it can be lost.

I received salvation when like the tax collector.; I repented fully and placed my faith in the work of Christ and the promises of God. no by works of righteousness which I did. am doing or will do. But by Gods mercy. through the washing and regeneration of the HS.

Maybe one day you will find this out for yourself.

 

[BreatheFocusBet]

Has anyone been saved by the law?

Yes or no??

No.

btw, this is what Paul actually accuses them of

Galatians 4:9-11
But now that you know God, or rather are known by God, how is it that you are turning back to those weak and worthless principles? Do you wish to be enslaved by them all over again? You are observing special days and months and seasons and years! I fear for you, that my efforts for you may have been in vain.

Another way to put it is does observing special days and months and seasons and years mean you have forsaken Jesus?

They were on a slippery slope in my opinion. Please forgive me then if I am misunderstanding you but from your refusal to give a simple yes or no answer, I assume you mean that Paul thought these people
v'
v
v

Galatians 3:26
You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

Galatians 4:6-7
And because you are sons, God sent the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying out, “Abba, Father!” So you are no longer a slave, but a son; and since you are a son, you are also an heir through God.

Galatians 3:1-2
O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law, or by hearing with faith?
Are you so foolish? After starting in the Spirit, are you now finishing in the flesh? Have you suffered so much for nothing, if it really was for nothing? Does God lavish His Spirit on you and work miracles among you because you practice the law, or because you hear and believe?

Did not have the Holy Spirit, were not sons of God, and had no faith in Christ Jesus

(correct me if I am wrong)

which is quite absurd in my opinion, as Paul clearly affirms
You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

and not

You may be all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

And affirms they have the Holy Spirit in both scenarios here
Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law, or by hearing with faith?

etc. etc.

Perhaps there is confusion in what I am asking. Just in case there is, I am not asking what Paul ultimately thinks of people under the law to begin with. I am asking what he thought about specific people here, even if he were somehow mistaken about them, which seems to be that these people had (in bold)

Galatians 3:26
You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

And, simultaneously, that these same people could (in bold)

Galatians 5:2
Take notice: I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all.

the good news here is that seems plain enough for all to see

 

[Runningman]

the verse does not refute anything.

Jesus said there is one way to heaven, and that is through him. Whoever believes has eternal life. whoever does not believe shall not see life. but the wrath of God abides in him.

why are you trying to earn a gift?? why do you think you could ever be righteous enough to earn salvation?

Eternal life is a future gift. That’s why perseverance is required. I know, many verses look like “oh all I have to do is believe for eternal life and I get it immediately!” but then later they always say that eternal life comes later “in the age to come” or some future time. Feel free to look it up.