Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked
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True and I agree. Then they said later it’s something to wait for, be taken to, persevere for, to be inherited, in the coming age, or a future time.
So the way this works is you can’t have eternal life now and then have eternal life again later. That’s redundant and doesn’t make sense.
To prove it, which verses says you have eternal life right now today? Please show me. All I can find are verses that say eternal life comes later. The Bible says this. Why are you fighting it?
So the way this works is you can’t have eternal life now and then have eternal life again later. That’s redundant and doesn’t make sense.
To prove it, which verses says you have eternal life right now today? Please show me. All I can find are verses that say eternal life comes later. The Bible says this. Why are you fighting it?
It won’t work since I’m anointed to preach the gospel. If you want to waste your breath go for it, but I 100% guarantee God won’t stop me from seeking His glory and proclaiming His word.
Actually, what you’re doing is weaponizing prayer. Did you know that has a tendency to backfire? When you form a weapon to fight against God’s saints, it may be used for good as well as turning back on you. May God’s will be done.
Actually, what you’re doing is weaponizing prayer. Did you know that has a tendency to backfire? When you form a weapon to fight against God’s saints, it may be used for good as well as turning back on you. May God’s will be done.
I have the word of God on my side. Pray away.
The word refutes you:
Matthew 19
29And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life.
Matthew 25:31,46
31“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne.
46“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
Mark 10
30will fail to receive a hundred times as much in this present age: homes, brothers, sisters, mothers, children and fields—along with persecutions—and in the age to come eternal life.
Luke 20
35But those who are considered worthy of taking part in the age to come and in the resurrection from the dead will neither marry nor be given in marriage, 36and they can no longer die; for they are like the angels. They are God’s children, since they are children of the resurrection.
Jude 1
21keep yourselves in God’s love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life.
James 1
12Blessed is the one who perseveres under trial because, having stood the test, that person will receive the crown of life that the Lord has promised to those who love him.
John 6
54Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.
Romans 2
7To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.
1 Corinthians 15
52in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality.
1 Timothy 4
8For physical training is of some value, but godliness has value for all things, holding promise for both the present life and the life to come.
1 John 2
24As for you, see that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. 25And this is what he promised us—eternal life.
The word refutes you:
Matthew 19
29And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life.
Matthew 25:31,46
31“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne.
46“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
Mark 10
30will fail to receive a hundred times as much in this present age: homes, brothers, sisters, mothers, children and fields—along with persecutions—and in the age to come eternal life.
Luke 20
35But those who are considered worthy of taking part in the age to come and in the resurrection from the dead will neither marry nor be given in marriage, 36and they can no longer die; for they are like the angels. They are God’s children, since they are children of the resurrection.
Jude 1
21keep yourselves in God’s love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life.
James 1
12Blessed is the one who perseveres under trial because, having stood the test, that person will receive the crown of life that the Lord has promised to those who love him.
John 6
54Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.
Romans 2
7To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.
1 Corinthians 15
52in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality.
1 Timothy 4
8For physical training is of some value, but godliness has value for all things, holding promise for both the present life and the life to come.
1 John 2
24As for you, see that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. 25And this is what he promised us—eternal life.
John 3: 36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
Jesus is the life, If you don't have eternal life you don't have Jesus and you don't know the father its that simple, Has Jesus come into your flesh? is he inside you?
John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
Jesus is the life, If you don't have eternal life you don't have Jesus and you don't know the father its that simple, Has Jesus come into your flesh? is he inside you?
9If we receive the testimony of men, the testimony of God is greater. For this is the testimony of God that He has testified concerning His Son. 10The one believing in the Son of God has the testimony in himself; the one not believing God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has testified concerning His Son.
11And this is the testimony: that God has given to us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12The one having the Son has life; the one not having the Son of God does not have life.
13I have written these things to you, the ones believing in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.
11And this is the testimony: that God has given to us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12The one having the Son has life; the one not having the Son of God does not have life.
13I have written these things to you, the ones believing in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.
yes and amen to scripture.
I don’t think we’re understanding it the same way. I’m pretty sure it’s about a promise, a guarantee, of something in the future.
Consider this:
Ephesians 2
6And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus.
There’s an inheritance waiting for you in heaven, the gift of eternal life. It has your name on it, but meanwhile you need to wait for the coming age to lay hold of it. While you’re waiting, there’s work to do. It requires perseverance in doing good, seeking honor, and immortality as Paul said.
The Bible is more or less unanimous about eternal life being in the future. I think that must be the correct way to interpret 1 John 5.
I don’t think we’re understanding it the same way. I’m pretty sure it’s about a promise, a guarantee, of something in the future.
Consider this:
Ephesians 2
6And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus.
There’s an inheritance waiting for you in heaven, the gift of eternal life. It has your name on it, but meanwhile you need to wait for the coming age to lay hold of it. While you’re waiting, there’s work to do. It requires perseverance in doing good, seeking honor, and immortality as Paul said.
The Bible is more or less unanimous about eternal life being in the future. I think that must be the correct way to interpret 1 John 5.
John 3: 36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
Jesus is the life, If you don't have eternal life you don't have Jesus and you don't know the father its that simple, Has Jesus come into your flesh? is he inside you?
John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
Jesus is the life, If you don't have eternal life you don't have Jesus and you don't know the father its that simple, Has Jesus come into your flesh? is he inside you?
The believer is ALREADY "SEATED" there, positionally / legally.
This could not be the case ^ ("συνήγειρεν - synēgeiren" [G4891] and "συνεκάθισεν - synekathisen"), if somewhere along the time-line-of-life, going forward, the believer could LOSE or FORFEIT salvation.
[see G4891 also found in Col2:12, 3:1]
And note that the word "[in order that] He might SHOW [G1731] [in the ages [plural] that are coming],"
the word "SHOW [G1731] speaks to this:
1731 endeíknymi (from 1722 /en "in," which intensifies 1166 /deiknýō, "show") – properly, to make fully evident, showing conspicuous proof which demonstrates something as undeniable. The prefix 1722 (en) adds the dimension of "abiding condition" making the "showing forth" on "open display" for all to see, i.e. obvious so "no one could miss it."
(it's not saying "show TO US," see)
This could not be the case ^ ("συνήγειρεν - synēgeiren" [G4891] and "συνεκάθισεν - synekathisen"), if somewhere along the time-line-of-life, going forward, the believer could LOSE or FORFEIT salvation.
[see G4891 also found in Col2:12, 3:1]
And note that the word "[in order that] He might SHOW [G1731] [in the ages [plural] that are coming],"
the word "SHOW [G1731] speaks to this:
1731 endeíknymi (from 1722 /en "in," which intensifies 1166 /deiknýō, "show") – properly, to make fully evident, showing conspicuous proof which demonstrates something as undeniable. The prefix 1722 (en) adds the dimension of "abiding condition" making the "showing forth" on "open display" for all to see, i.e. obvious so "no one could miss it."
(it's not saying "show TO US," see)
We aren’t in heaven right now seated where Jesus is. Take that into account and I think it makes more sense.
When Christ Jesus was raised up, he was literally resurrected with a glorified body. I know that the “raising up” isn’t about spiritual rebirth or spiritual resurrection because Christ didn’t die spiritually, but we did. The only kind of resurrection we will have in common with Christ is a body resurrection.
So it’s about a glorified body resurrection in the ages to come. Meshes perfect with scripture. There you have it, eternal life in the age to come.
When Christ Jesus was raised up, he was literally resurrected with a glorified body. I know that the “raising up” isn’t about spiritual rebirth or spiritual resurrection because Christ didn’t die spiritually, but we did. The only kind of resurrection we will have in common with Christ is a body resurrection.
So it’s about a glorified body resurrection in the ages to come. Meshes perfect with scripture. There you have it, eternal life in the age to come.
Not specifically to the 12.
Read it again.
"to His disciples" of which there are hundreds
"you who have followed Me" of which there are hundreds
"Everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or mothers or husband's or wives for the sake of My name" of which there are more than any man can count
Read it again.
"to His disciples" of which there are hundreds
"you who have followed Me" of which there are hundreds
"Everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or mothers or husband's or wives for the sake of My name" of which there are more than any man can count
You seem to have (possibly) ignored... that I said "positionally / legally" (not literally)... and THAT was, WHEN HE WAS (seated)... and that I'd pointed out the same G4891 word (used here in our verse under discussion) used also in Colossians 1:12, which states,
"having-been-buried-with [G4916 - syntaphentes ] Him in THE baptism" (that is, in HIS DEATH... WHEN HE DIED)... "in which also you-were-raised-with [G4891 - synēgerthēte ] [Him]..."
(see also Rom6:3, "Or are you unaware that as many as have been baptized into Christ Jesus [note: not in "water"] have been baptized into His death?")
These are facts.
See also the other verse I'd referenced with that G4891 word, Col3:1 (see vv.1-4, including the wording "Christ WHO IS OUR LIFE"), which goes into what follows the "positional / legal" truths with (what will be) LITERAL
"having-been-buried-with [G4916 - syntaphentes ] Him in THE baptism" (that is, in HIS DEATH... WHEN HE DIED)... "in which also you-were-raised-with [G4891 - synēgerthēte ] [Him]..."
(see also Rom6:3, "Or are you unaware that as many as have been baptized into Christ Jesus [note: not in "water"] have been baptized into His death?")
These are facts.
See also the other verse I'd referenced with that G4891 word, Col3:1 (see vv.1-4, including the wording "Christ WHO IS OUR LIFE"), which goes into what follows the "positional / legal" truths with (what will be) LITERAL
It's evident you are incoherent, because I have not called you a liar.
I have patiently, over and over, explained to you that if you believe and preach that God told Judas he would reign with Christ in the resurrection, yet Judas will never do this, then you are believing and preaching that God is a liar.
God is not a liar, therefore what you believe and are preaching here is in great error.
I have patiently, over and over, explained to you that if you believe and preach that God told Judas he would reign with Christ in the resurrection, yet Judas will never do this, then you are believing and preaching that God is a liar.
God is not a liar, therefore what you believe and are preaching here is in great error.
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i understand that you have a lot of people trying to talk to you in this thread but you don't seem to have followed our own conversation at all. you greatly misrepresent it -- and anyone who cares to can follow it back through this thread and verify that what i am writing here is true:
- you yourself said Judas is not a believer, won't sit on a throne with Christ judging Israel, and does not inherit eternal life. i quoted you saying it, and you do not dispute it.
- i have the fact that God cannot lie.
- i never disputed this - i pointed you to several passages that indicate false prophets, false teachers, the antichrist, even Satan himself has power to work all kinds of signs and wonders and even sit behind a pulpit or on a street corner preaching, because you cited Judas doing signs and/or wonders as evidence he "must be saved" tho the Bible plainly teaches that not everyone who does mighty works is of God. the fact you are making this argument again means you are rejecting all those scriptures.
- never disputed Judas was chosen. Jesus plainly says He chose him - none of the apostles chose Jesus; He chose them all. i use God's definition of "follow" rather than your human definition, and clearly Judas did not "follow" Christ as God defines "follow" - Judas was constantly stealing from the moneybox, for example ((John 12:6)) & if you put the 4 gospel accounts of the alabaster jar of perfume, Judas is leading all the disciples astray into a rebellion against Christ when He is being anointed for His burial -- do you think robbing God & leading a rebellion against Him counts as being a follower of God, as God defines being a follower of Him?