Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

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ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
7,553
3,154
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2 Peter 2:20 is a knowledge that is not mixed with faith - a faith that is given to the recipients of salvation by God
Talk to someone else, I'm done. I don't waste my time with people who are just here to preach; especially when they don't know what they're talking about.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
18,329
7,237
113
I should have included true knowledge is from salvation. It is possible to have a superficial, intellectual knowledge of
Christ and salvation, without being saved - many people do
You certainty do need the knowledge of the truth of the gospel message this much is true. What you ALSO need is to agree to it from the heart, and make a commitment to WALK in this newly found truth.
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
3,119
432
83
But Peter said they ESCAPED.

that is the key.

They were Saved.
We've already been through all of this. Knowledge doesn't save anyone but the verse says that it was by their knowledge that they escaped. If it was by their knowledge, then it wasn't by salvation - otherwise salvation isn't salvation.
Many people have knowledge of salvation and of Christ and may even have superficial, intellectual faith for a while but
that doesn't mean they were ever saved.
Go back and look at the word eternal again.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
18,329
7,237
113
2 Peter 2:20 is a knowledge that is not mixed with faith - a faith that is given to the recipients of salvation by God
I pretty much agree with that....:unsure:
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
3,119
432
83
You certainty do need the knowledge of the truth of the gospel message this much is true. What you ALSO need is to agree to it from the heart, and make a commitment to WALK in this newly found truth.
That makes salvation a work, which, it cannot be. Salvation is solely a gift.

[Eph 2:8 KJV] 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
19,211
2,547
113
I was 18 years.

Never lost my faith in Jesus, lost it in the church and certain types of Christians.
I was a damaged wounded person based on servere childhood trauma.

Had a ministry in church.
When I could no longer cope with the past I asked to step down from the ministry and seek counselling and spiritual input from the church.
I was knackered emotionally, and spiritually.

The answer was no because I was no longer serving.

Addictions took over me.
Sought help for that but was told Bible says to do eg don't gamble.
Was told I wasn't saved because I did not speak in tongues.
Same with addiction.
The list could go on and on.
Shame on Christians who shoot their wounded rather than nurse them.
Why would I want to go to church and trust Christians like this.

Through all of this I never lost my faith in Jesus.
I begged, implored cried out for help and healing.

Never write/judge people off.
Come alongside if something is amiss.
Feed to sheep of Jesus.
My friend I know what you have been through that wounded and broken damaged enotional and spiritual state is absolute worst state to be in you just cant shrug it off and it is a a poison you cant seem to get a cure for. In the past three years I dealt with this I had no one in my life to help or lift me up and life just did not hold back I have been through so much clinging to God just barely able to connect to him I tried to kill myself three times im the last three years each time he would not let me die it was just recently I attempted to take 70 units of insulin this is fast acting stuff and my diebetes was due to radiation from chemo therapy and it all destroying my body so it works differently than normal diebetes it is more unpredictable and it gets low or high much easier than normal diebetes.

Ten units alone should have done something but 70? I am not supposed to be alive but God by his grace held my life in his hands. I was in need of help I couldn't strive on my own had I had a true brother or sister in my kife I could have not just recovered but flourished

This is the sad truth many fall in faith because they don't have someone to lift them up when they fall often times it's not the person who is falling in faith fault it's Christians who know such people exist yet do nothing about it.

This isn't something we can do alone stregnth is in numbers and in this war we battle especially as believers it is a war only one with each other.

Serving Christ as I have come to find in all my turmoil is my saving grace my eyes were fixed on him once I attempted death for the third time this was when he took me to the other side and showed me the kingdom he showed me who we are in him and how we are to be with him I mean ii'm talking about looking hell in the face and saying your under my feet and excuse my language but a total bad ass in Christ like hell trembles when they see because you may be the one standing before the demons of hell but they see Jesus staring them down and crap themselves.

When you see who you are in Christ and understand the position you hold it changes you you no longer just going to sit by as the average believer your for the kingdom now it quickens you to move the joy of serving Christ and the mission of the kingdom brings you to hieghts with him that seem like fantasy you dare to reach levels with him that seem insane you look at the imposible and are like Jesus is going to stomp that down in minus three two one...

I was dead bow im alive I was blind now I can see I was deaf now I can hear and now I live for the kingdom to bring the kingdom here if I can plant even one seed for the kingdom everyday then that day was worth living
 
Jun 20, 2022
6,460
1,331
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We've already been through all of this. Knowledge doesn't save anyone but the verse says that it was by their knowledge that they escaped. If it was by their knowledge, then it wasn't by salvation - otherwise salvation isn't salvation.
Many people have knowledge of salvation and of Christ and may even have superficial, intellectual faith for a while but
that doesn't mean they were ever saved.
Go back and look at the word eternal again.
They could not have knowledge until they were saved.

You don't even practice what you preach.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
18,329
7,237
113
That makes salvation a work, which, it cannot be. Salvation is solely a gift.

[Eph 2:8 KJV] 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
Never said it wasn't a gift bro. I also never said that it was a work of the flesh. You can easily infer from my post that it was a positive response begotten of faith. This faith being a gift from God, along with salvation.
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
3,119
432
83
You think God hates people before they are Saved?
Yes. Just like Esau and as all of the unsaved are.

[Rom 9:11 KJV] 11 (For [the children] being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)
[Rom 9:13 KJV] 13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

[Psa 58:3 KJV] 3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,879
4,333
113
Here is my confusion

You said

How many times can you deny God before He hardens your heart or gives you over to a REPROBATE MIND?


We can always return through Repentence.
You say we can return through repentance but then say we cannot.

"I am saying that God has a limit. When someone reaches that limit, there's no more hope."
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
18,329
7,237
113
I was 18 years.

Never lost my faith in Jesus, lost it in the church and certain types of Christians.
I was a damaged wounded person based on servere childhood trauma.

Had a ministry in church.
When I could no longer cope with the past I asked to step down from the ministry and seek counselling and spiritual input from the church.
I was knackered emotionally, and spiritually.

The answer was no because I was no longer serving.

Addictions took over me.
Sought help for that but was told Bible says to do eg don't gamble.
Was told I wasn't saved because I did not speak in tongues.
Same with addiction.
The list could go on and on.
Shame on Christians who shoot their wounded rather than nurse them.
Why would I want to go to church and trust Christians like this.

Through all of this I never lost my faith in Jesus.
I begged, implored cried out for help and healing.

Never write/judge people off.
Come alongside if something is amiss.
Feed to sheep of Jesus.
Amen to that bro.
 
Jun 20, 2022
6,460
1,331
113
Yes. Just like Esau and as all of the unsaved are.

[Rom 9:11 KJV] 11 (For [the children] being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)
[Rom 9:13 KJV] 13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

[Psa 58:3 KJV] 3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.
Jacob and Esau were born Same Time but God hated Esau and Loved Jacob even though both were SINNERS equally at birth?