Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

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Feb 20, 2021
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If Revelation 2:10 teaches that we must be "faithful enough" (in addition) to placing our faith in Jesus Christ for salvation, (Ephesians 2:8,9) then just "how faithful" would you have to be? Where do you draw the line in the sand and say that you were "faithful enough" so now the Lord will be able to save you? That is vague and could include ANY number of good works, which results in "works righteousness."

I see Revelation 2:10 as an encouraging statement from the Lord to Christians at the church of Smyrna who were being persecuted, even to the point of death. I don't see Jesus telling these Christians that if they are not "faithful enough" (in addition) to having faith in Him for salvation that they will not receive eternal life. That is "salvation by works!" I do see Jesus telling them that they will receive the crown of life after death, be faithful, hang in there!

In the very next verse, Jesus said - "He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death." 1 John 5:4, we read - "For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world--our faith. ONLY (genuine) BELIEVERS are saved, overcome, and are faithful unto death (Ephesians 2:8; 1 Peter 1:9). Unbelievers are not saved, do not overcome and are unfaithful unto death.

When I was a teenager, I temporarily attended the church of Christ with my friend and his Aunt. Years later, I ran into my friends Aunt and while discussing church with her, she asked me if I had "remained faithful." Her idea of remaining faithful revolved around whether or not I still attended the church of Christ and held to all of their beliefs. When I told her that I no longer attend that church, but attend a different church now, she acted very uncomfortable and treated me like I was an infidel.

The picture here illustrates God's forgiveness when dealing with our sins at the cross. Our debt has been paid in full by Jesus. In Matthew 18:28, where the servant is unwilling to forgive his fellow servant such a small debt of a hundred denarii is presented as a repulsive hypothetical situation. As unbelievable as this action would be, that is how unbelievable it would be for a genuine born again Christian, who has been forgiven such a huge debt, to be unforgiving of others with such a small debt. Notice that this "unforgiving servant" is called a "wicked" servant because no genuine born again Christian would have such an unforgiving heart. Hearts that are humble and have received God’s grace forgive others from a heart that is saved, but proud and vengeful hearts which do not forgive in such small matters reveal a heart that is unsaved and does not receive God's forgiveness.

Failure to forgive in such a small matter shows that this person has not fully embraced God’s grace and forgiveness, hence the term, "wicked servant," which is not descriptive of a genuine believer. The fact that this person is called a "servant" does not necessarily mean they were saved. The children of Israel were referred to as "the Lord’s servants," but they were not all saved.

In Leviticus 25:55, we read - For the children of Israel are servants to Me; they are My servants whom I brought out of the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God.

Jude 1:5 - Though you already know all this, I want to remind you that the Lord at one time delivered his people (the Israelites) out of Egypt, but later destroyed those who did not believe.

In Isaiah 43:10, we read - You are my witnesses, says the LORD, my servant, whom I have chosen..

In Nehemiah 1:6, we read - please let Your ear be attentive and Your eyes open, that You may hear the prayer of Your servant which I pray before You now, day and night, for the children of Israel Your servants, and confess the sins of the children of Israel which we have sinned against You. Both my father’s house and I have sinned.

Many translations say that the wicked servant was forgiven of his huge debt because he begged or pleaded with his master. Thus, his master showed mercy and forgiveness and the huge debt of the wicked servant was forgiven until his unforgiving nature was discovered. His master in this parable was a man who did not infallibly know his wicked servant's heart (unlike the Lord, Jesus Christ who infallibly knows our hearts) and did not realize that his servant was wicked until his heart was exposed by refusing to forgive one of his fellow servants a small debt and the wicked servant even choked his fellow servant and threw him into prison until he could pay back the small debt. Jesus warned that God cannot forgive us if we have a wicked, unmerciful, unforgiving heart and to be unwilling to forgive in such a small matter would reveal such a wicked heart.

In the parable of the unforgiving servant, the servant’s debt was forgiven until his unforgiving nature was discovered. In contrast, our sin debt was paid in full by Christ at the cross and is the means for God’s forgiveness. We cannot repay our sin debt to God or earn our salvation and God is not automatically going to forgive us our sin debt simply because we beg or plead with Him with a wicked heart that is unwilling to forgive others, especially in such a small matter, as in the parable. God forgives our sin debt by grace through faith (instrumental means) and forgiveness is the mark of a merciful heart that is saved.

The Lord isn't going to forgive unmerciful, unforgiving, wicked hearts no matter how much we beg and plead, then take back the gift and He also doesn’t order that our wife and children be sold in order to pay off the debt either. (Matthew 18:25) We could fall to our knees all we want asking the Lord to be patient with us and we will pay back our enormous sin debt (Matthew 18:26) but it's too huge to pay back, so that isn't going to work either.

Unforgiveness is the mark of an unbeliever and forgiveness would be the mark of a genuine believer. We should forgive others because God, through Christ, has forgiven us (Ephesians 4:32). It is inconceivable that someone who has truly experienced God's forgiveness could refuse to grant forgiveness to others, especially in such a small matter, as we saw in Matthew 18:26-35.

Tallying-up salvation is the definition of a false gospel.

The greatest issue in Christiandom is belief in our rebirth. We are recreated in holiness and sinlessness and faithfulness. Even when a reborn person sins it is pretense, as they are very offended by that sin and feel regret and homesickness. It is why Jesus says we need to come to his Throne of Grace abruptly and red-handed; that we do not misbelieve that we are sinners and identify with that. The light never goes out in a person who is reborn, and the only thing that is comfortable for that person is holiness. The discomfort in sin is actually evidence of salvation.

To think we can choose philosophy---and it is just as much a sin of pretense to look at the 10 Commandments as a philosophy for our lives---and make something good of ourselves by our own ability is to have no belief in the gospel where Jesus actually DID need to pay our penalty for us. All that is required us to be is in our rebirth in Christ, with the mind of God indwelling us. To seek to become better people is like trying very hard to make chocolate taste like strawberry. The flavor of something is God-given, and we accept it for what it is. It is natural for a person reborn to be exclusively holy.

We have ministries of gifts for the sole purpose to keep ourselves free from thinking we can fall away. Paul makes it clear that those who did not stay never were believers or genuine Christians. Paul never said they used to be reborn Christians.
 

Everlasting-Grace

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You are the only person I have come across who doesn't believe the prodigal son is not about salvation.
thats interesting.
The only people I know who make it about salvation are people who think salvation can be lost. ie he was saved as a son, then walked away. losing salvation. and if he did not come back he would be lost..is this what yuo think?
 

Cameron143

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thats interesting.
The only people I know who make it about salvation are people who think salvation can be lost. ie he was saved as a son, then walked away. losing salvation. and if he did not come back he would be lost..is this what yuo think?
No. I believe in eternal security. But I do wonder what you read in the story that suggests the prodigal was saved before he left home. Can you share?
 

Everlasting-Grace

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No. I believe in eternal security. But I do wonder what you read in the story that suggests the prodigal was saved before he left home. Can you share?
was he the fathers son, did he recieve an inheritance?

if he was lost he would be satans son. not the father's (God)

I can't imagine why anyone would think he was not saved.. nor have I ever heard that theory.
 

Cameron143

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was he the fathers son, did he recieve an inheritance?

if he was lost he would be satans son. not the father's (God)

I can't imagine why anyone would think he was not saved.. nor have I ever heard that theory.
He was a natural son. He still needed to be born again. He received an earthly inheritance. He still needed an eternal one.
But regardless of what I post, your response will be the opposite so I wish you well but do not see how further discourse will be fruitful. Blessings.
 
Feb 5, 2023
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You are the only person I have come across who doesn't believe the prodigal son is not about salvation.
I think you're now arguing with someone who defends a contrary doctrine to that of the gospel. At one point I noticed they challenged someone by asking a question about a teaching that they implied they believed in then but had disagreed with for pages and pages before.
 

Everlasting-Grace

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I think you're now arguing with someone who defends a contrary doctrine to that of the gospel. At one point I noticed they challenged someone by asking a question about a teaching that they implied they believed in then but had disagreed with for pages and pages before.
Who is arguing?

He asked me a question, I answered. Thats what people who discuss do.

What Contrary Gospel do I teach?

and can you explain your last comment please??
 

Cameron143

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I think you're now arguing with someone who defends a contrary doctrine to that of the gospel. At one point I noticed they challenged someone by asking a question about a teaching that they implied they believed in then but had disagreed with for pages and pages before.
I'm remiss to make a determination about someone's eternal estate given my own frailty. But sometimes discourse is becoming increasingly difficult.
 

Everlasting-Grace

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He was a natural son. He still needed to be born again. He received an earthly inheritance. He still needed an eternal one.
But regardless of what I post, your response will be the opposite so I wish you well but do not see how further discourse will be fruitful. Blessings.
same father... same blood ran through his veins. so I pray you see why I would see something different.

I just want to know what the verse says..and for you to see why I see it the way I do..
 

Cameron143

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same father... same blood ran through his veins. so I pray you see why I would see something different.

I just want to know what the verse says..
Right. But blood and veins are fleshly characteristics. They had very different hearts and motivations and actions. Very different spirits.
 

Everlasting-Grace

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Right. But blood and veins are fleshly characteristics. They had very different hearts and motivations and actions. Very different spirits.
Like I said,

I was a prodigal son for 5 years in the early 2000's I know firsthand what the story shows. Because I witnessed all aspects of the parable first hand.

up to and including feeling unworthy when I returned.
 
Feb 5, 2023
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I'm remiss to make a determination about someone's eternal estate given my own frailty. But sometimes discourse is becoming increasingly difficult.
My observation didn't call into question someone's eternal estate. Mine was an observation of the contrarian doctrine coming from one side coupled with the confusing flip flop .
 

rogerg

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So, as it seems this thread is now winding down, I wanted to leave you with these verses to demonstrate that
contrary to the thread's title, OSAS is in fact true and correct.

[Phl 1:6 KJV] 6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform [it] until the day of Jesus Christ:

[1Pe 1:2-5 KJV]
2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
 

Rosemaryx

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So, as it seems this thread is now winding down, I wanted to leave you with these verses to demonstrate that
contrary to the thread's title, OSAS is in fact true and correct.

[Phl 1:6 KJV] 6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform [it] until the day of Jesus Christ:

[1Pe 1:2-5 KJV]
2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
Amen...xox...
 

Everlasting-Grace

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eternal security is in Christ. not in self.

we either have faith in Christ, his work and his promise,

or we do not believe. in which case, we will suffer what we deserve

he who believes is not condemned..he who does not believe is condemned already
 

rogerg

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eternal security is in Christ. not in self.

we either have faith in Christ, his work and his promise,

or we do not believe. in which case, we will suffer what we deserve

he who believes is not condemned..he who does not believe is condemned already
But what you've neglected to include is that those who believe, do so,
only because they are of the elect and given a true belief in Christ.

[Gal 5:22 KJV] 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
 

Everlasting-Grace

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But what you've neglected to include is that those who believe, do so,
only because they are of the elect and given a true belief in Christ.

[Gal 5:22 KJV] 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
No, I would not do that, because I would only be telling half the truth

While those who believe were elected to eternal life

That is the result, not the cause.

God is a God of love, he respects no person.

you keep posting the fruit of the spirit. A person who is not yet saved does not have the fruit.. He must be saved first.

they are saved by GRACE through faith..

only after are people given special gifts. I have met few people who have had the spiritual gift of faith, they are an awsome view of Gods child I only wish I had that gift
 

Aaron56

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Just tipping my toes in here into this discussion:

"To the pilgrims of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, 2 elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ..."

"For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son"

We are predestined to be conformed to His image
We are predestined to be in sanctification of the Spirit
We are predestined to be set apart for the work of God through us

This is how election is to be understood: that all who believe in Jesus will be, by God's hand, conformed, sanctified, and set apart for the work of God through them.

I'll leave it at that.