Once saved, always saved

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eternally-gratefull said:
Titus 3:5
not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,
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Romans 10:2-3 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge.

[SUP]3 [/SUP] For not knowing about God's righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God.
 
HeRoseFromTheDead said:
Now these are the accurate, concise, edifying types of comments that I like to see from sparkman (bah to the ones on Calvinism/Arminianism and eschatology).

However, I take issue with one point (bolded above); and the only reason I do so is because IMO it is the crucial point that some stumble over. We are transformed by doing the word. Just hearing the word and not doing it is like beholding who we are in Christ (our identity) in a mirror (or "lens", if you will) and then forgetting who that is when we look away (because it's only an image in the mind). Whereas doing the word of GOD transforms our entire being such that doing GOD's will becomes our innate nature.

So genuineness of conversion has more to do with applying one's faith rather than as the result of the quality of one's faith. I hear it repeated so often here that if a person falls away from the faith, they never really believed in the first place (bad faith). That's quite a presumptuous and non-scriptural judgment to make. The parable of the sower teaches that it's the quality of the soil (the person) that determines the genuineness of conversion as evidenced by fruit. Those who don't do, or continue doing, the word because of their shallowness or loving the world more than GOD (have) believe(d) in vain. So genuineness of conversion is not something determined by mythical good/bad faith, but by applying what faith we have to do GOD's word.
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The position that those who don't continue were not true believers is perfectly Scriptural:

I John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us.


To boast about the person's inherent qualities as a reason why they persevere is PLAINLY unscriptural.

There is NO reason for boasting. NONE. God won't tolerate it. The glory is all His.

See, this is ultimately why I won't be associated with non Reformed doctrine..ultimately this is what it come down to..the focus is totally on the self.
 
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sparkman said:
The position that those who don't continue were not true believers is perfectly Scriptural:

I John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us.
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John was referring to a specific group in that church who followed Christian gnostic doctrines. That statement cannot be applied universally.
 
sparkman said:
The position that those who don't continue were not true believers is perfectly Scriptural:
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Amen! :)

I John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us.
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I find it interesting that John not only said that those who went out from us were not of us; but he also said - "for is they had been of us, they would have continued with us." Not might have or should have but WOULD HAVE.
 
mailmandan said:
Amen! :)

I find it interesting that John not only said that those who went out from us were not of us; but he also said - "for is they had been of us, they would have continued with us." Not might have or should have but WOULD HAVE.
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I also like how he completed his thought.

[SUP]20 [/SUP]But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things.[SUP][d][/SUP] [SUP]21 [/SUP]I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

Unlike the ones who left. These people have the anointing of the spirit. and they know thee gospel completely. and no one needs to teach them this gospel anymore..

The other ones never grasped the truth of the gospel. Thus they never recieved the annointing, and eventually, since their faith was truly dead, (non existent) left.
 
sparkman said:
The position that those who don't continue were not true believers is perfectly Scriptural:

I John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us.


By the way, to boast about the person's inherent qualities as a reason why they persevere is PLAINLY unscriptural.

There is NO reason for boasting.

See, this is ultimately why I won't be associated with non Reformed doctrine..ultimately this is what it come down to..the focus is totally on the self and its ability to reform itself. It has NO ability to transform itself. The true believer is transformed by the Holy Spirit and has no reason for boasting.

God takes the WORST of sinners and forms them like a potter forms clay.

To be honest, I don't even want to stand close to you..I'm afraid lightningbolts might strike me accidentally.
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This is a mischaracterization. The focus is entirely upon GOD, but the doing of his will, without which there is no growth, is entirely dependent upon the application of our will. The cross doesn't allow for boasting in whatever we do.

Your comment about lightning bolts doesn't surprise me. There is a certain phobia about those who hold to total inability that is surreal, which taken to its extreme actually turns the doing of GOD's will into sin.
 
It is God in us that gives us the will and the ability to do His will.

Philippians 2:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.

The Will of the Father is to believe on Jesus.

1 John 3:23-24 (NASB)
[SUP]23[/SUP] This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.

[SUP]24 [/SUP] The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

The good works we do are from "being in Christ"..being lead by the Holy Spirit. Notice God has prepared them for us. We walk them out as we live our lives dependent on Him.

Ephesians 2:8-10 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

[SUP]9 [/SUP] not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
 
I have found at least 7 things about doing the will of God on this earth now that we are in Christ. This will throw off the false teaching of the work-based salvationists and on losing salvation because you don't do what "they do".

1) That we have eternal life in Christ - John 6:40

2) That we be filled with the Holy Spirit - Eph 5:16-21

3) That we live a pure, disciplined lifestyle - 1 Thess 4:3-4 ( we live out that holiness that is already in us in our new man ..created in Christ in righteousness and holiness )

4) That we are rejoicing in the Lord, praying without ceasing, and grateful - 1 Thess 5:16-18

5) That we be a law-abiding citizen - 1 Peter 2:13-16

6) That we believe and influence others to believe - 2 Peter 3:9

7) That we commit ourselves to God and other believers - 2 Cor 8:5

According to the works-based salvationists...if someone is not joyful one day or didn't pray for a couple of days...or was not grateful for a day or so and they died..then they would go to hell because they didn't do " the will of God"..( see #4 above )....how foolish this nonsense is when you don't factor in the finished work of Christ.

What about #5 above...if you speed and crash your car and die..you go to hell because you were not doing " the will of God"...again the complete foolishness of people that say..not doing the will of God are not saved. We always need to factor in the finished work of Christ when regarding salvation in Christ alone.

The "doing of the will of God" for salvation and to be with our Father for eternity is to believe on Christ and it is by grace through faith only - no works. Eph 2:8-9

The saint who rests in Christ and in His finished work is the will of God and what appears to be his free choices are actually God's will for him. It's loving God because you know His love for you, doing what is inside of you under His influence. Phil 2:13 - for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to do.
 
HeRose, EG, Grace, Etc:

CEF said:
I grew up hearing the phrase that once you are saved, you are always saved. You cannot loose your salvation is that statement true, please help me find scriptures that discuss this topic further.
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The OP is a 19 year old female who has very recently made the decision to accept Jesus Christ as Lord of her life!

Please keep your audience(s) in mind.
 
sparkman said:
Full assurance, or fearful worrying about losing salvation?
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Amen sparkman! We have complete assurance in Him, the author and finisher of our faith(Heb 12:2)

"Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ" Phil 1:6
 
Regarding this phrase " … once saved, always saved" is never explained in reasonable English self thinking but instead we get dozens of biblical quotes, word salads, loose associations etc.

Now we have a discussion about hating your brother, sister or cousin and whether it's sinful, jeopardizing one's salvation or a believer can never hate some one.

Well if I go by the phrase…"once saved, always saved" good grief, why worry about whom you hate, despise, love etc?

You are saved…ain't cha?
 
1 PETER 4:8


8 And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins. (KJV)


8 Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins.(NIV)



This scripture piqued my interest ... I'm curious as to other's response to it ... Feedback?
 
I was looking at the other scriptures in 1Peter 4:8 for context and found another source for God working in us and not ourselves by our own strength. Only God gets glory when it is His life and strength being manifested in and through us.

1 Peter 4:7-11 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] The end of all things is near; therefore, be of sound judgment and sober spirit for the purpose of prayer.

[SUP]8 [/SUP] Above all, keep fervent in your love for one another, because love covers a multitude of sins.

[SUP]9 [/SUP] Be hospitable to one another without complaint.

[SUP]10 [/SUP] As each one has received a special gift, employ it in serving one another as good stewards of the manifold grace of God.

[SUP]11 [/SUP] Whoever speaks, is to do so as one who is speaking the utterances of God; whoever serves is to do so as one who is serving by the strength which God supplies; so that in all things God may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom belongs the glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.

Love will always forgive sins that others have done against us. The more we know the love God has for us - the more His love in us can flow out of us to others.
 
thepsalmist said:
1 PETER 4:8


8 And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins. (KJV)


8 Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins.(NIV)



This scripture piqued my interest ... I'm curious as to other's response to it ... Feedback?
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Take a person who is always loving, and serving others.

The take another person, who always complains and is ungratefull

They both struggle with the same sin issue,

who is most likely to be forgiven? (from us, not God)
 
John 3:27 John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.


Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:


Romans 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
 
Grace777x70 said:
I was looking at the other scriptures in 1Peter 4:8 for context and found another source for God working in us and not ourselves by our own strength. Only God gets glory when it is His life and strength being manifested in and through us.

1 Peter 4:7-11 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] The end of all things is near; therefore, be of sound judgment and sober spirit for the purpose of prayer.

[SUP]8 [/SUP] Above all, keep fervent in your love for one another, because love covers a multitude of sins.

[SUP]9 [/SUP] Be hospitable to one another without complaint.

[SUP]10 [/SUP] As each one has received a special gift, employ it in serving one another as good stewards of the manifold grace of God.

[SUP]11 [/SUP] Whoever speaks, is to do so as one who is speaking the utterances of God; whoever serves is to do so as one who is serving by the strength which God supplies; so that in all things God may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom belongs the glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.

Love will always forgive sins that others have done against us. The more we know the love God has for us - the more His love in us can flow out of us to others.
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So you interpret this to mean that a living love in Christ forgives the sins done to us ... I do see that actively happening in myself in Christ.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

The verse says that it COVERS sins, though ... so be they ours or someone else's against us ... I am still intrigued by the use of the word "covers" ... since Jesus' blood is said to COVER our sins. Anyone have any insight into the etymology of that word?
 
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eternally-gratefull said:

Take a person who is always loving, and serving others.

The take another person, who always complains and is ungratefull

They both struggle with the same sin issue,

who is most likely to be forgiven? (from us, not God)
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Sorry ... you lost me completely there brother .....
 
thepsalmist said:
Sorry ... you lost me completely there brother .....
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think of two people who you know at work

person A, is always giving, always serving others always has a joyful loving spirit.

person B complains all the time, Is never around to serve others, and has an ungrateful heart.

Now. Both struggle with profanity, Both have problems being late. or getting things done on time, Both have problems keeping to the speed limit and get tickets all the time. And both struggle from time to time with alcohol.

Which one is going to be forgiven more easily (their sins being covered) the complainer, or the one who is so living and serving.
 
It does seem to point to two who are IN Christ ... if my sins and my brethren's sins are covered by Christ's blood already ... how can they be further covered by my love?
 
thepsalmist said:
It does seem to point to two who are IN Christ ... if my sins and my brethren's sins are covered by Christ's blood already ... how can they be further covered by my love?
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I do not think he is talking about eternal covering, for the very reason you just suggested, But something else. Which I tried to explain, and you may still not get :(
 
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