Once saved, is sin ok?

[Jimbone]

I do not agree that it is the Holy Spirit's responsibility to refrain the Christian from sinning. If that were the case, then one could blame all his sinning upon the failure of the HS in keeping him from sinning. You're removing the responsibility of sinning from the individual putting it upon the HS.

It's the Christian that chooses to sin and must be the Christian that chooses to repent and quit sinning or be lost.

1 Jn 1:7 the Christian must choose to continuously walk in the light whereby Christ's blood continues to wash away all sins. The HS does not force the Christian to walk in the light, it's all freewill choice of the Christian.

Dude I'm sorry but your whole view of the Holy Spirit is warped in my opinion. I KNOW how the Spirit works in me and whatever you're talking about seems like a made up situation to me. That's nothing even close to what I'm saying and is pretty close to speaking against the Holy Spirit in my opinion, so I'd be careful. I'm not putting responsibility on anything. I am giving all glory for anything that can be even remotely considered good that comes out of me ALL to His power. He is what CHANGED me overnight, I don't know your testimony but He's armed me with an amazing one, that I am extremely grateful for, and what you are arguing makes very little sense to me. Has God not done an amazing work in you? Do you not give credit to the God and His Spirit that saved and made you new? Are you still old? I don't understand your angle brother.

Are you saying "WE" change drop everything and follow Him? Without His Spirit we could change a thing. All glory to Him alone. So you are taking His glory for yourself, yes I give it all to the Holy Spirit before I'd follow you.

 

[newbirth]

He's not arguing for sin, he's telling you the truth.. I was saved at 17, I fell away back to the world within a week, forgot everything .. There's harsh consequences for this, but I found my way back to Christ.. And have slipped but my heart is right.
I strive for perfection through Christ daily, I don't use Jesus as a credit card to sin, (I HAVE NO EVIL INTENT) in my heart, there's nothing planned, premeditated, with evil, I'm innocent in this sense, I want nothing but good, even love for my enemies, and I strive to be the way Jesus wants me, complete righteousness, Jim is right, why would we need a helmet of salvation? There's a war for our mind, that follows the heart, if the devil can get us to have a lust for money, lust for power, lust for pleasures of this world, all the same to him, just wants us to turn are back on Jesus,

why we need are helmet, to control are thoughts, control are emotions.. Take being jealous, it will lead to hate, that hate will lead to anger, that anger will lead to murder... We must abide by the Holy Spirit in love, God is love, if we love God truly, we hate disappointing Him, (sinning) friends might want to go out and get a drink, you end up drunk, are you unsaved now, no, we repent and tell God I won't be doing that anymore, heck with my friends if they don't want to come in at a decent hour, and do your very best not to end up in that situation, next time you will think, I know these guys want to stay out, I'm not going this time.. We have to plan how to do the righteous things, and avoid sin, we can still go out in the world, we just don't want to be of it, and sin in it, like it or not, your different then everyone else, and we must act accordingly... Righteously, we can't just "fit in" so to speak...

everyone seems to be using the word of God to fit their personal experience it does not work that way...God has ordained a way get into his kingdom ....and a way to remain in his kingdom....you don't get to make your own rules to get in and your own rules to remain...

 

[Jimbone]

everyone seems to be using the word of God to fit their personal experience it does not work that way...God has ordained a way get into his kingdom ....and a way to remain in his kingdom....you don't get to make your own rules to get in and your own rules to remain...

So you make the rules? What is the rule you're referring to? Did you not have an experience?

 

[Bride]

Just to add to this thought a little, God does not want rebellious children He cannot trust. If, 20,000 years from now, He sends one to another part of the universe to complete something the way He wants it done, He does not want a child who will do something their one way with varying results. He had a child like that once, his name was Light Bringer but the name had to be changed to Adversary.

I must take issue that God ever had a child that was a sinner. Especially someone named "lightbringer". That is unscriptural. And if you are referring to "lucifer", that is an adjective of a shining light, not a proper noun, and it only referred to a man, the King of Babylon (once when he was commissioned to oversee the Jews in captivity see Isa 14:12 & 16). But failed miserably in that instead of protecting them, the King of Babylon abused them severely. Read Daniel for instance for an example. This is just simple history and avoid the 'theology' which attempts to make it something foreign to scriputes.
Jesus is the only son of God. Jesus is the only "bringer of light". Any child of God only has sonship in Christ. God has no other children than His Only Begotten Son Jesus, from whom all Light Comes.

(Joh 1:5)
And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

(Joh 1:9)
That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.


(Joh 8:12)
Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

 

[Brainfreeze]

everyone seems to be using the word of God to fit their personal experience it does not work that way...God has ordained a way get into his kingdom ....and a way to remain in his kingdom....you don't get to make your own rules to get in and your own rules to remain...

Yeah, two guys with miracles that happened to them are telling you the same thing, everything we are saying is in accord with the Bible. You are now having problems with Jesus, not me. What "rules" am I making up?

 

[Bate]

By no means!

Romans 6:1
Romans 6:15


​

 

[Brainfreeze]

I know God loves me, He shows me all the time, different blessings I've never experinced before, miracles, and better understanding then I've ever had..Where do you think this comes from, do you think my life or Jim's is some sick joke?
We live because of Him, as Jim said we went as far as we were going to get on our own steam... Our lives are for Him..period

 

[Atwood]

I must take issue that God ever had a child that was a sinner.

in many things we all stumble. < James 3

But rest assured:

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for
He shall save His people from their sins.

He who has suffered in the flesh [to death]
has ceased from sin.

All Christians are chastened, which proves they are Christians.
They do sin, but they don't get away with it.

 

[Brainfreeze]

By no means!

Romans 6:1
Romans 6:15
​

Bate, why would Jesus tell us to pray the Our Father, "forgive us are trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us, lead us not in to temptation but deliver us from evil"
FORGIVE US OUR TRESPASSES BUT DELIVER US FROM EVIL... There's a difference..

 

[Calminian]

Then Paul does not know what he is saying Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. If he had said, I was the chief, we would all understand that, because certainly he was in the forefront of the ranks. But now, looking back as he comes near to the end of his life, he says, I am the chief of sinners.

I'll take a little comfort in seeing an opinion expressed I can embrace.

What a strange conversation. Paul says this explicitly in the present tense as a christian. Yet the wise and pious of this thread say he made a mistake and should have spoken in the past tense.

How do you reason with people like this? I'll never understand how the human mind works in this regard. Regardless of your soteriology, this should be an easy one. Basic soteriology 101. We christens, like Paul, are sinners. We're also former a lot of things, but we're sinners.

 

[Atwood]

I'll take a little comfort in seeing an opinion expressed I can embrace.

Well Cal, whist you may stumble around a tad, beware of embracing too strongly the sins -- can a man take fire into his bosom and not be burned?

 

[Bride]

By no means! That's how Paul answered that charge.

Rom. 6:1 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?

Yet this same Paul called him self the worst of sinners. If this doesn't work in your theology, you need to make changes, and if you truly believe, you will.

At one time Paul WAS the worst of sinners, yes. Good thing he wasn't AFTER receiving Christ though eh? Which is obvious, or else we might as well throw that "sinner's" words out. I'd sure never put my faith in any scriptures written by a "saint" who didn't allow Jesus to live a sinless life in Him. Especially after He wrote how important that is over and over. He would be a hypocrite if so, and I would be an idiot if I read his stuff.

Jesus was made sin for us. The law cursed him as it does a sinner. He overcame the temptations to sin in his body when he was tempted to do evil. He submitted to being baptized as sinners are required. He was buried with sinners...
We all know these facts. Even when He knew He was equal with God, He lived a humble submissive life as a repentant sinner would, continually dealing with the enemy of His own flesh! He never exalted Himself.
So what do we do?
We do the same! Paul was a Saint. He had been a sinner prior, yes, but did he sin after receiving Christ? Not that we can see in scriptures. BUT, we can see him remain humble and not be lifted up to brag about being perfect. Just like Jesus! He still considered Himself unworthy even after being made sinless in Christ. Yes, he said he had been a "chief sinner", but certainly not "still was". To be humble and admit our prior sinful life is what Paul is saying is all. That same spirit should remain in all of us, the same mind as in Jesus AND in Paul, to render ourselves obedient and submissive to the Word as a fallen man, NEEDING the Word, as is necessary for all saints. Otherwise, we would be worthless in representing the Gospel to the Nations.

So Paul saying He was the "chief of sinners" shows humbleness, just as Jesus was humbled himself to be sin for ALL of us. Yet in neither case should we even sugGEST that Paul continued to sin ANY MORE THAN JESUS SINNED after receiving the Holy Spirit. That goes wayyyyy beyond scriptures and involves a serious fatal form of judgement upon another, as I see it.
Peace

 

[Atwood]

everyone seems to be using the word of God to fit their personal experience it does not work that way...God has ordained a way get into his kingdom ....and a way to remain in his kingdom....you don't get to make your own rules to get in and your own rules to remain...

Good day, NewB.

Since this thread is about sin,
would you mind sharing with us how many times a day you sinned the last week? Have you bean a good boy?

 

[Atwood]

I know God loves me, He shows me all the time, different blessings I've never experinced before, miracles, and better understanding then I've ever had..Where do you think this comes from, do you think my life or Jim's is some sick joke?
We live because of Him, as Jim said we went as far as we were going to get on our own steam... Our lives are for Him..period

BrainFreeze,

ARe you trying to prove doctrine from your own super-spiritual experiences? Are we to be convinced by "your life"?

 

[Brainfreeze]

BrainFreeze,

ARe you trying to prove doctrine from your own super-spiritual experiences? Are we to be convinced by "your life"?

It's not up to me what convinces you, rather it be a change in another, that gets you to Christ, or you opening the Bible yourself, I don't care how you get there, as long as you do get there.. If you end up in prison (for sin) and call on him there, WHERE EVER, WHAT EVER, just get to Jesus..

 

[Jimbone]

Well Cal, whist you may stumble around a tad, beware of embracing too strongly the sins -- can a man take fire into his bosom and not be burned?

Amen, he does seem to be very defensive of sin period, but then he will change his tone in the next comment and act like we are claiming sinless perfection. I can't deal with that guy anymore and would suggest to anyone in this debate to not waste time with confused shape shifting trolls. As a matter of fact I would like to know exactly what sins he thinks Paul was committing after his conversion? Cal WHAT IS YOUR POINT? With all this "we are still sinners, Paul is still a sinner, Christians are sinners" talk. What is your point if you are not just trying to justify you own continuous sin? What's your point "brother", do you just want to hear everyone call themselves sinners? We are, we are all born fallen humans, and no we will never be able to stop sinning completely. Does that make you feel better about your self somehow? I don't understand your point man, and I get tired of you questioning others relationship with Christ, and salvation like you have ANYTHING to say about it. Lets put it ALL on the table right now to eliminate ANY misunderstandings. What is the main message you want to get across in this "save Christian sin, it's ok because Paul was chief sinner" mission? How does your message help ANYONE other than the false convert.

 

[Bride]

Christians.
They do sin, but they don't get away with it.

"Tares", a false Christian, will still sin, but they aren't a true Christian, they are a fake, a weed amongst the wheat.
I've never read about a true "Christian" sinning in the Bible. Only about being forgiven of past sins and having BEEN a sinner. A person is now either a sinner or a Saint. One can't be both. One can be on the journey, from being a Christian to being a Saint yes, but until they've crossed over and been translated into the Kingdom of God by pure faith and the life-changing Holy Spirit indwells them, they aren't born of God yet. To assume a person could be both a sinner as well as a saint is unscriptural to the maximum, and such a thing would be even worse and be hypocritical. We are given the example of Baalam for such as that. Clouds without water, wandering stars etc.
The evidence we can rely on for a person being a true Christian, follows their conversion, (or lack of it) by this explicit evidence;

(1Jn 3:9)
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Whoever still sins, is "of the devil", as the verse prior says;

(1Jn 3:6)
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
(1Jn 3:7)
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
(1Jn 3:8)
He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

No ifs ands or buts again

 

[Calminian]

Well Cal, whist you may stumble around a tad, beware of embracing too strongly the sins -- can a man take fire into his bosom and not be burned?

How is admitting I am a sinner the same as embracing sin? You guys have never explained this, though this is clearly the reasoning you cite for not being able to admit you are sinners as Paul did.

Do you believe Paul was embracing sin, by admitting he was a sinner?

 

[Calminian]

Amen, he does seem to be very defensive of sin period, but then he will change his tone in the next comment and act like we are claiming sinless perfection. I can't deal with that guy anymore and would suggest to anyone in this debate to not waste time with confused shape shifting trolls. ...

Boy, Jim, I remember I first came across you in the Halloween thread where you claimed anyone who participated in Halloween was a phony christian. Then in another thread you got busted accidentally sending your gossip PM about me, to me, trying to spread rumors about me. Now you're calling me a troll for saying I'm a sinner just like Paul did.

You're confused brother. Trust me, you've gotten caught up in the wrong crowd. I pray you'll find your way.

Grace and peace

 

[Brainfreeze]

Amen, he does seem to be very defensive of sin period, but then he will change his tone in the next comment and act like we are claiming sinless perfection. I can't deal with that guy anymore and would suggest to anyone in this debate to not waste time with confused shape shifting trolls. As a matter of fact I would like to know exactly what sins he thinks Paul was committing after his conversion? Cal WHAT IS YOUR POINT? With all this "we are still sinners, Paul is still a sinner, Christians are sinners" talk. What is your point if you are not just trying to justify you own continuous sin? What's your point "brother", do you just want to hear everyone call themselves sinners? We are, we are all born fallen humans, and no we will never be able to stop sinning completely. Does that make you feel better about your self somehow? I don't understand your point man, and I get tired of you questioning others relationship with Christ, and salvation like you have ANYTHING to say about it. Lets put it ALL on the table right now to eliminate ANY misunderstandings. What is the main message you want to get across in this "save Christian sin, it's ok because Paul was chief sinner" mission? How does your message help ANYONE other than the false convert.

I'm ok with people spouting off Jim, because it puts a more defined message on what it means to be a true Christian. After reading this thread one on a search for Christ will see there's a right way and a wrong way, if they really want to be a follower of Christ, they will see we have to drop the flesh and live by spirit. As you said though, I'm not going to keep chasing around the same subject, I think we've described it fairly well, and anymore rebuttals I will retain until necessary in this thread. Glad to fight with these words of truth with you, I take joy in it, truth will set them free, Jesus and His Words, and the right understanding of these words...