One of Satan’s main attack - the Baptism of the Holy Spirit

[JemimaJade]

You say the gifts ceased because they had served their purpose, yet none of the passages you cited actually says that.
In 1 Corinthians 13 Paul says prophecies, tongues, and knowledge will cease, but he places that when "the perfect" comes and when we see "face to face" and know fully as we are known (1 Cor. 13:10-12).
The passage itself does not say this happened when the apostles died, when the church became established, or when the New Testament was completed.

Thank you for your response….can we examine the contrast that Paul states there in 1Cor 13:10?
He speaks of the “perfect” in contrast to the “partial”…so what does “perfect” mean in this context?

The Greek for “perfect” is “teleios” which Strongs defines as….

1. “brought to its end, finished
2. wanting nothing necessary to completeness
3. perfect
4. that which is perfect”

So….what was coming, was going to complete something not yet brought to its finish.

The contrast is “meros” (partial) which means…

1. “a part
   
   1. a part due or assigned to one
   2. lot, destiny
2. one of the constituent parts of a whole”.

So what is the contrast when we look at the big picture?
What was to be brought to a finish?
What did they know then, compared to what they knew once the Holy Spirit informed their spirit that they had been adopted as God’s “sons” (Rom 8:15-17) God’s revelations to his servants was always progressive, one increment at a time, which was also demonstrated in his original creation….one “day” at a time, in logical sequence. He revealed what they needed to know, when they needed to know it. (Matt 24:45)

What is this “adoption”?…and what did it mean for “the chosen ones” (the elect)? What were they “chosen for? (Mark 13:24-27)
Rev 20:6 answers that question. They were chosen to be “kings and priests” with Jesus in heaven, forming the “government” (Isaiah 9:6) that would rule redeemed mankind on earth. (Rev 21:2-4)

What the majority of Christians miss, (IMO) is why God put us here on this earth in the first place. It was not designed to be a training ground for heaven, but as a permanent home for human kind.

God instructed his human children to “fill the earth” with their own children and to “subdue” the land outside of the garden. (That word means to bring something under control.) But the first humans never got an opportunity to do that, because they were evicted from their paradise home to eke out a meager existence on cursed ground, outside of it….never to return to paradise again. (Gen 3:22-24) Angelic Guards were posted to make sure they never did.

What an extreme contrast that was to their awesome beginnings. But was it all lost? No! But how God would take us back to paradise involved a period of testing with satan being given opportunity to tempt Adam’s children, being given rulership of this world to prove his claim that he could be the better ruler of mankind and receive their worship. (1 John 5:19; Luke 4:5-7)

Isaiah also informs us that what God starts, he finishes. (Isa 55:11) So what did God start in Eden? What future did he plan for the human race? Certainly not the one that resulted from the fall, which was started by a rebel spirit, not just the first humans. He deceived the woman so as to gain control of the man….the one whom the Bible identifies as “the one man through whom sin came into the world”. (Rom 5:12) There is no mention of the woman.

In the big picture, what the first humans lost for their children, (who were born in sin through no fault on their part) God immediately introduced his means of salvation for them. (Gen 3:15) A “Savior” who would give his life in exchange for theirs.

The sin of the first humans was their choice, but it was not given as a choice for their offspring….God would send that Savior for them, a Redeemer who would pay the exact price for their redemption….a sinless life given for a sinless life lost.

This is why Jesus had to be born as a sinless human…and the reason why he had to be completely mortal, otherwise the ransom payment was not made, and we are all still condemned.
The application of Christ’s ransom wasn’t without terms and conditions however. Humans had to prove faithful to their death in order to qualify for everlasting life….so God provided an instruction manual for them….one that he has preserved to this day.

Jesus is called “the last Adam” (1 Cor 15:45) because he paid for what the first Adam did with his own mortal life. He could not have been immortal, because immortals cannot die.

This is the basis for what I believe….a much bigger picture than most Christians entertain.
If we go back to the beginning and see what we lost….we can then follow what the Bible says about how it all took place….and how, in the end, God gives us back what we lost in the beginning. (Isa 55:11)

 

[JemimaJade]

Not the point. There’s point is that Jesus was a sacrifice for our sins, but through Him brought the Holy Spirit to all believers. The baptism of the Holy Spirit didn’t die with the disciples. Dear Lord.

I never said that the Holy Spirit died with the disciples….I said that the anointing was no longer accompanied by the gifts….it still takes place, but not the way it did in the first century.
Jesus foretold a falling away from the true faith by the devil creating counterfeit churches….they now number into the thousands.

How do you create confusion? You give people too many choices, and they give up trying to find that diamond in a pile of broken glass. Can you blame them?

 

[JemimaJade]

I do not think any Church would deny receiving the Spirit but they would differ to the extent the Spirit works in our life and focus on repenting and confessing Christ.

I believe that we need to evaluate what Scripture as a whole teaches, and harmonizes within itself. It is after all “inspired of God” (2 Tim 3:16-17) and is to be taken as a whole, not Cherry picked and often then, contradictory.
Being “led” by God’s spirit and being “anointed” with it, are two different things IMO. Only the elect (chosen) are anointed for life in heaven as ‘kings and priests’ to rule with Christ in his Kingdom. (Rev 20:6)

Revelation 7:9-10; 13-14 identifies two different groups of saved Christians…one numbered and one unnumbered…a finite group chosen for rulership (Rev 14:1-5) over an infinite number of those saved for everlasting life on earth, returning a redeemed human race back into reconciliation with their Creator.
A resurrection is planned for all those in their graves, “sleeping”. (John 5:28-29) This is where Jesus calls them from, just as he did Lazarus. (John 11:11-14)

After a thousand years of Christ’s rulership, all will return to the way it was meant to be…God’s Universal Sovereignty is vindicated, sin is eradicated forever, and only those who have passed the final test will be granted everlasting life in the paradise home we were given in the beginning….returned now and never to be lost again.

God’s purpose for this earth and mankind upon it, never went away. (Isa 55:11)

 

[JemimaJade]

Careful here, tongues can take multiple forms.

1 Corinthians 13:1
If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels...
Paul identifies two types of tongues above.
Are there other forms of tongues?
1 Corinthians 12:10
And to another the effecting of miracles, and to another prophecy, and to another the distinguishing of spirits, to another
various kinds of tongues, and to another the interpretation of tongues.

Can tongues manifested in the Spirit be understood by others?

1 Corinthians 14:1-2
Pursue love, yet earnestly desire spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy. For the one who speaks in a tongue
does not speak to people, but to God; for no one understands, but in his spirit he speaks mysteries.

It would be unwise to think that a manifestation of tongues can only be a foreign language.

Define a “foreign language”…..isn’t it simply one we have never learned?
I believe what is practiced today is a far cry from what was manifest in the first century….in discussions with many Pentecostals, they often confessed to faking the gibberish so as not to be looked down upon by fellow congregants.

In 1 Cor 14:8-19, Paul outlines the difficulties….

 

[NightTwister]

This thread needs a revival tent.

 

[Burn1986]

Without baptism of the Holy Spirit there is no salvation.

For then we cannot be spiritual to have a relationship with God on His level and realm.

God is not going to stoop to our level to have a relationship with us and in the flesh dwells no good thing.

It is all about the baptism of the Holy Spirit that saves us and us repenting and the blood of Jesus allows us to have the Spirit for then we are a clean vessel.

How could anyone think they can be saved without being led of the Spirit.

If no person could save themselves when in the world them how can they be saved without the Spirit leading them.

2 Timothy 3:4 lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Some people deny the Spirit leading them and love sin more than God.

It could be they believe they cannot abstain from sin so they deny the baptism of the Holy Spirit believing God is not going to give them the power to stop sinning.

It does not make sense they will not believe in the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

They probably believe in the baptism of the Holy Spirit but say receiving the Spirit instead and deny the role of the Holy Spirit of helping us to abstain from sin.

They might think baptism is a bit much because it appears to them as going overboard with what they can receive.

It would seem like they would all believe in the Spirit working in their life but differ in beliefs as to the extent the Spirit works in their life.

So they might view the work of the Spirit as not as important as the Bible says so they do not preach it.

Or they do not teach it thinking it will come automatically happen after they repent and confess Jesus so they do not view it important or necessary to preach it but focus on repentance and confessing Christ.
Which they might think a person does not have to accept the Spirit but it will come automatically so why preach it.

I do not think any Church would deny receiving the Spirit but they would differ to the extent the Spirit works in our life and focus on repenting and confessing Christ.

Many Christians believe that human beings cannot live a sinless life or completely abstain from sin in this earthly existence because of the fall and the persistence of the sinful nature.

At the same time, they believe in the baptism of the Holy Spirit, but they view it as the universal and instantaneous work of regeneration that happens at conversion (when a person is born again and placed into the body of Christ by the Spirit).

In this view, having the Holy Spirit does not mean a person suddenly becomes sinless or capable of total abstinence from sin on earth; rather, it breaks the bondage of spiritual death, even as the believer continues a lifelong struggle against remaining sin.

If they do not believe the Spirit will help them to abstain from sin and they will be placed in to the body of Christ after repenting and confessing Christ they might not think it is important to preach the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

For why does a person have to confess it if it happens automatically.

People that deny the power thereof not allowing the Spirit to lead them do not think they are denying the Spirit but they do not understand the extent the Spirit works in their life.

Galatians 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

The Spirit helps us to be Christlike.

Satan wants us to believe we cannot abstain from sin for then we do not get rid of the flesh and will not receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

This (“ Without baptism of the Holy Spirit there is no salvation.”) is 100% not true.

 

[Burn1986]

I never said that the Holy Spirit died with the disciples….I said that the anointing was no longer accompanied by the gifts….it still takes place, but not the way it did in the first century.
Jesus foretold a falling away from the true faith by the devil creating counterfeit churches….they now number into the thousands.

How do you create confusion? You give people too many choices, and they give up trying to find that diamond in a pile of broken glass. Can you blame them?

“….it still takes place, but not the way it did in the first century.” What is your source for this?

At the Azusa Street revival from 1906-1909, there was recorded evidence of participants talking in tongues and all races hear in big it in their own language.

 

[JemimaJade]

This thread needs a revival tent.

I would have to ask…”what is being revived”? And why was “revival” necessary?

No ”revival tent” I have ever investigated has lasted the distance….humans get in the way of any genuine “revival”.
They want to “revive” what was never alive in the first place….they fade away, only to be replaced by something equally erroneous….and so now we have more Christian sects than we know how to count?
How many versions of the truth can there be?

What does it mean to be a Christian? Can you tell me from the Bible what the criteria is?

 

[JemimaJade]

“….it still takes place, but not the way it did in the first century.” What is your source for this?

The fact is that we are living in “the time of the end”. (Daniel 12:4) What Daniel wrote about (some 500 years before the birth of Christ) was in the very distant future, and not understood until that time when “knowledge would be abundant”…..can anyone dispute that we are in the age of information? Compared to what was known about anything in ancient times, we are in a situation where ignorance is no longer an excuse. The ignorance we see today is one of choice. The truth is there in God’s word for all to evaluate for themselves…yet most rely on the words of men to set their spiritual compass. Pre-conceived ideas become set in concrete, and many cannot see past them….but the Bible is there to correct us. (2 Tim 3:16)

So when the elect began being selected, they were chosen “first”…and were to be be resurrected “first”. (Rev 20:6: 1 Thess 4:15-17)

All of the first Christians were spirit anointed and proved their loyalty to Christ under test.
But an apostasy was foretold and men would corrupt the Christian faith, just as easily as they had corrupted Judaism. Satan has always had willing henchmen, who were persuaded to do his bidding if their ego was stroked enough.
The rot set in early….even towards the end of the first century, the remaining apostles warned that men were already infiltrating the congregations and leading people away after themselves. (2 Thess 2:3; 6-12)
The “apostasy” had to come first, and satan would put on a great show in convincing people that God was with those false apostles…with “great signs and wonders”.

By limiting the gifts of the spirit to the first century, he would show up later “signs and wonders” to be from a different source….an evil one masquerading as an “angel of light”. (2 Cor 11:14-15)

At the Azusa Street revival from 1906-1909, there was recorded evidence of participants talking in tongues and all races hear in big it in their own language.

And from the Scriptures, we can see that ‘all that glitters is not gold’.….not all “miracles” are actual miracles. The devil is a master deceiver….and he mimics what God can do….so we have to take heed to what the Bible tells us about those things, and what the real evidence is for a person’s claim to be a “Christian”….(our model. 1 Peter 2:21)

What does that designation mean to you? What identifies a true Christian today?