One sin and your done?

[Blain]

I'm not sure but i think Jesus Christ said, some believers will come but fall away by temptation.

Do you mean many are called but few are chosen?

 

[Dai3234]

Is this a futile debate about whether Christ saves completely or partially?

I suggest to not engage in something beaten to death a thousand times. Christ saves completely, end of story.

More to do with wilfully sinning, maybe reviling the holy spirit, blaspheming. Unpardonable if continued? Says Pastor Scott Velain on willful sin. Showing direct connections, people don't like to know because they want to believe the nice and fluffy version of the gospel and ignore the hell part.

 

[Dai3234]

Do you mean many are called but few are chosen?

Generally some may choose temptation of stuff over obeying Christ. This is the sort of willful sin part that's troubling. If Jesus Christ gave a helper, holy spirit, to put the truth in and on our hearts etc. And we know something is wrong but we continue anyway. Is this not the same as saying no to the holy spirit meaning blaspheming against the spirit and unpardonable? That's troubling.

 

[dcontroversal]

I'm not quite sure what you think about this dcontroversal....but I see this woman understanding that Jesus had mercy way beyond most of the Jews of the day, that there was something a great deal different about how He felt about all.

I think he said, "It is not worthy for me to give that which is holy unto the dogs"....and her response is golden is what I think about it....and Jesus commended her faith

 

[Grace777x70]

The "dogs" term is always used by Jews for Gentiles. They all used this term as it was a part of their culture to distinguish believers in God from non-believers - even Jesus did and Peter as well in his epistle.

 

[Depleted]

you are comparing a pet dog with no inbuilt moral compass to a human with a moral compass and the indwelling of the Holy Ghost. amazing. Does not equate, dog returns to its vomit remember that one in the bible?

Reread what she wrote, because I'd be mighty offended if someone called my son a dog!

 

[Depleted]

I dont believe that an addiction to something sinful justifies doing wrong. I also dont believe that salvation depends on the victory over addiction. It takes an acknowledgement that you are wrong, and that you did wrong. And a willingness in youre heart to stop. I believe we do not nullify grace, its a big part of my beliefs. But I also know that if I willingly give into my desires, when my desires are wrong, and just tell myself "its cool Ill just ask for forgiveness when Im done", I know that I have not repented, and I know that He has warned us about dying in our sins.

There has to be something in the heart that truly wants to change, and come to Him. Its not the victories that we must achieve, but the willingness in our hearts to come to Him and follow Him.

Honestly, I wouldn't ask this of many people on this thread, (nor do I want everyone else's answers when I'm asking here), but you seem to have the kind of heart that can answer honestly, but humbly, so I will.

What do you do when there is willingness to change but no ability?

 

[Depleted]

I am half Jewish and my best friend is german we make jew vs german jokes all the time to each other lol

Polish jokes are better. lol

 

[Depleted]

I think willful sin maybe ignoring the holy spirit when being convicted. Just because you want to E,g, get your leg over etc. Or think yeah it's bad smoking, but I'm going to die anyway, so ignore and continue etc.

Yeah, I am going to die as a smoker. Yeah, I know I smell like a pig. Yeah, I know we can't go into a retirement village (American phrase, but picture old people living together in a gated community with their own stores and such) because I smoke. Yeah, I know. I can't stop. Yeah, I know. I'm hopeless. So time to give up trying.

Is that what you mean or did you give up before trying? Are you just too stubborn to even want to try? (Different than having a string of tries prove you can't do it.)

You sound like me. Defeated by trying so much and feeling like you're getting no where.

Conviction? I got conviction two years ago when I watched hubby go through 7 months of hell from a heart attack (partly because he smoked), and knew I had to quit before he came home or I could kill him! I love him more than any other human on earth.

I get conviction! Conviction still doesn't change ability!

Does it matter if it is willful or not? It's NOT sin! It's utter complete stupidity and a chemical dependency that just doesn't let loose easily.

I fear you are condemning yourself because you tried and couldn't. You CAN'T! Only God can condemn!

David deserved condemnation for killing his buddy to steal his wife. Deserved it. God didn't give it to him. Punished him in the hardest way, (losing your son is the hardest way), but didn't condemn him.

I know my life shortens from smoking. I already have COPD. My back is bad, and the smoking makes it worse. I've seen what a heart attack does. I've seen what cancer does. I see where this is going, and I deserve that for my stupidity.

I deserve condemnation too, but that was paid for my someone else. Jesus took that punishment. He didn't die on that cross because of my smoking! He surely died on that cross of the utterly selfish, stupid, self-centered reason I started. Those reasons were haughty. Haughty is a sin. (Willful or unwillful, still a sin. I've been both. )

Frustrating habit? You betcha! But stop thinking you are condemned for being a smoker. Have you repented of the stupidity that got you started? I can guarantee that first fag (British word, not American word, so not a curse word) was lit for completely self-centered, arrogant reasons. Have you repented of that?

Yeah, well. Good! (If not, ain't no time like the present.) Then God has already forgiven you! Who are you to not forgive yourself when God himself has forgiven you? That too comes under arrogance.

Of all the things to hold you down, tobacco seems like one of the dumber reasons. How about we both keep praying for each other that God gives us strength? He will eventually. Here's hoping you first, since you're the one stuck thinking God hates you because of addiction.

 

[Depleted]

Oh you know nice neat bright colored clothes neat and tidy hair to the T no dark colors what so ever. I wanted to try this church i saw one time when i was walking and I like dark colors i walked in with black jeans a red shirt with a black lightning pattern on it and a black beany. I tell you the looks i got were scary

Would eyes have popped out and chins hit the floor if you had full-out mohawk at that moment too? lol

 

[Depleted]

More to do with wilfully sinning, maybe reviling the holy spirit, blaspheming. Unpardonable if continued? Says Pastor Scott Velain on willful sin. Showing direct connections, people don't like to know because they want to believe the nice and fluffy version of the gospel and ignore the hell part.

You really don't want to listen to a SDA preacher. All the do is condemnation.

 

[Ugly]

[h=1] Romans 7:15-20 New International Version (NIV)
[/h] [SUP]15 [/SUP]I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. [SUP]16 [/SUP]And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. [SUP]17 [/SUP]As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. [SUP]18 [/SUP]For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature.[SUP][a][/SUP] For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. [SUP]19 [/SUP]For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. [SUP]20 [/SUP]Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

 

[resurrection33]

I was wondering, many people say you cannot lose salvation except from apostasy. So does that definitely mean a cigarette, a drink, or other, after becoming a Christian, is still forgiven? Definitely. Is this agreed? As some say obedience is key and others do not?

Facts? Thanks.

When a person gets himself saved, he is new in Christ. He doesn't totally understand what sin is, yet. To think that he is never going to sin again is wishful thinking.

 

[Johnny_B]

I was wondering, many people say you cannot lose salvation except from apostasy. So does that definitely mean a cigarette, a drink, or other, after becoming a Christian, is still forgiven? Definitely. Is this agreed? As some say obedience is key and others do not?

Facts? Thanks.

I John 2:18-20 "Children, it is the last hour, and as you have heard that antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have come. Therefore we know that it is the last hour.19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us.20 But you have been anointed by the Holy One, and you all have knowledge."

A true believer stays in the faith, not by works we do, we walk in the works prepared for us by God. The life of a Christian looks like this. I John 3:8-10 "Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil.9 No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God.10 By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother."

Here's how Paul said it, Colossians 1:22-24 "And you, who once were alienated and hostile in mind, doing evil deeds,22 he has now reconciled in his body of flesh by his death, in order to present you holy and blameless and above reproach before him,23 if indeed you continue in the faith, stable and steadfast, not shifting from the hope of the gospel that you heard, which has been proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, became a minister."

If, is not a conditional clause, it's a conjunction, the fruit of being born again or of God, is that you remain in the faith and do not turn aside or go out form us.

 

[Angela53510]

Let me state, hopefully not insulting anyone, that I hate cigarette smoke! My grandmother's house was filled with yellow smoke, to match her yellow stained fingers, as she chained smoked her way through each day. She was a sweet old lady, but in the thrall of that addiction. And smoking probably helped kill my paternal grandfather.

But mostly I hate it because I am severely allergic to it! I can't count the number of time I've been walking down the street and inhaled second hand smoke before I realized someone was smoking, and had to go to the ER for treatment. Before I was saved, I played in bars, and that was when smoking in bars was still legal. I lost my voice on Monday night, usually by the beginning of the second set. And my voice stayed lost till I went home, and had fresh air to breath.

So, I hate second hand cigarette smoke! BUT, is it a sin? Does it separate you from God? I suppose it depends on your understanding of soteriology, your conviction smoking is wrong, and what kind of person you are. There are addictive personalities. It is so much harder for them to quit something addictive. In fact, heroin addicts saying quitting heroin was easier than quitting smoking! God set me from my alcohol addiction, but if I take opiates, frequently called for with my chronic pain (and doctor prescribed!) I can stop instantly. I have weaned off of prednisone easily, many times, and stayed off till another med failure, many years later. I weaned off of prednisone as the new meds started working, by just keeping track of the dose and lowering it every first or second week. So, no addictions here!

So, what I see is an OP who wants to quit, but has had no luck. He also feels condemned by an SDA pastor. Hmm! They condemn eating meat, too! For very good reasons, and very good results! But some people need meat, because of their body type. I am not one of those types, but do I condemn people who do eat meat? Well, not any more! LOL I've been a vegetarian now for 46 years and I'm very glad about it! Are other people going to lose their salvation because they eat meat! Never!

As far as the issue of how we are saved, and whether we can lose our salvation, there are probably 20 recent threads on this. There are two sides, and I stand squarely on the side of God saving us, forever! So eternal security! But, I also agree that we do need to follow Jesus, obey him, as a sign that we are truly saved. I'm not going to judge someone who believes differently, but I will step in when people feel so judged and condemned they fear every move they make is a sin, and will send them straight to hell.

Look up eternal security and read about it! But if you come up disagreeing, you may find most theologians on the Arminian side, do not think that anyone can lose their salvation the minute they light up a cigarette. Arminians believe you can lose your salvation if you willfully sin, and do not follow Jesus. John says, if someone does that, they probably were never saved in the first place.

"They went out from us, but they did not belong to us; for if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. However, they went out so that it might be made clear that none of them belongs to us." 1 John 2:19

My thought is to stop listening to internet preachers of any sort. Especially judgmental SDA ones (I do believe they are saved, but then trap themselves in legalism!). Instead, read the Bible daily! Pray and read it. Study it! Read 3 chapters of the OT and one of the NT and you get through the Bible in a year. See what God says to you.

And yes ask God to help you quit smoking forever. But also see you're doctor, as their are many tricks you can employ, and even medications to help you. Every time I phone my pharmacy I get a little blurb I wish I could skip over, about a stop smoking program that the BC government will pay for.

If you feel such conviction here, I do think God is talking to you about quitting. But that conviction is not that you are going to lose your salvation!

"For you are saved by grace through faith, and this is not from yourselves; it is God’s gift— 9 not from works, so that no one can boast." Eph. 2:8-9.

Just as you cannot save yourself by works, neither can you lose your salvation by works or even sin! We are all sinners saved by grace! So why quit then, besides the tremendous health benefits? Well, because God is telling you to! Focus on that, and please pick up a Bible and read it, ok?

 

[oldethennew]

Is this a futile debate about whether Christ saves completely or partially?

I suggest to not engage in something beaten to death a thousand times. Christ saves completely, end of story.

==============================================

this is where we begin to learn how to fight Jesus' battles here on earth, this is the TEST of our
new found Faith...

 

[oldethennew]

Honestly, I wouldn't ask this of many people on this thread, (nor do I want everyone else's answers when I'm asking here), but you seem to have the kind of heart that can answer honestly, but humbly, so I will.

What do you do when there is willingness to change but no ability?

========================================

that sounds kind of oxy? smile - honest, precious, thoughts/desires very often
will bring about amazing things in our lives, when Christ is in the mix,,,no matter
where or when...

 

[Ariel82]

I was wondering, many people say you cannot lose salvation except from apostasy. So does that definitely mean a cigarette, a drink, or other, after becoming a Christian, is still forgiven? Definitely. Is this agreed? As some say obedience is key and others do not?

Facts? Thanks.

Cigarette and booze kills this body, often causes people to give in to bad judgement and temptation that leads to sin. Thus should be avoided because it hinders your walk with the Holy Spirit.

However, faith in the true gospel saves....but many only have fools gold.

 

[Ariel82]

Yeah, there not easy to give up because even though I know their addictive and bad, i still like smoking. An annoying yes no, why am i giving up, we die anyway. Oh no it's a sin, I'm awful, i want another cigarette, but i look like garbage, darn you cigarettes, but i enjoy you, i repent, put puff. Awwwww. Madness and sadness.

Have you prayer about it?

Sometimes the chains that binds us to sin takes more than just willing ourselves to stop.

Alchololics have AA, but snokers have to have a good motivation, support and methods to quit. Some are more addicted than others that their body will undergo physical withdrawal symptoms like a crack addict does...

Maybe learning how people get weak from harder core drugs might help or how cigarettes cause lung disease.


My mother in law stopped because she wanted to spend more time with the kids and I would take them into another room whenever anyone was smoking.

They eventually only smoked outside. Then she decided she was going to stop and use the time smoking to do other things, one of which was write novels and spend time with her grandkids.

I don't know what your motivation is, but will pray with you whenever you like about whatever you like.

 

[Ariel82]

Willful sin is short-listing real sin.

Willful sin - bad
Unwillful sin - not so bad.

It's a game, to cut down on seeing how much we do sin. "I don't rob banks, so I don't willfully sin." "I'm probably doing something sinful, but not willfully, so I don't worry about it."

I do not rob banks, but I still envy and lust for my neighbors goods, so I am still willfully sinning


Most sin are willful.

I believe the two categories are:

1. Sins I have repented of.

2. Sins I don't admit are sins and have refused to repent of,

Levels of sin (according to my understanding) is:

1. Unbelief in the gospel of Jesus Christ (all unbelievers of other religions and non born again Christians are guilty of this sin) this sin leads to death of the soul.

2. Willful sin (you know it's wrong but justify to yourself or make excuses for doing it anyway)

3. Ignorant sin (you didn't realise it went against God's will)

When you are shown your sin, you can react in two ways.

1 make excuses or not admit it's a sin
2. Admit it's a sin, repentant and ask God for help and the do what God tells you to do to tear down that spiritual stronghold in your life.

(okay, rant over)