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dashadow
Guest
That's why I ask. Some people become pastors as sort of a family tradition. Others go to seminary. And I've heard that churches have their own ordination process.
The pastor at the last church I attended would often speak of his "calling". But I've heard the same statement from those who have left their pastor position.
I believe we are all called to minister to one another. Though, I believe there are those who are better at leading discussions and teaching. But I don't think that's reason for one to consider himself or herself more connected to God than another.
Last year, my wife and I had a party at our home to celebrate my fiftieth birthday and our fifteenth wedding anniversary. During the party I pulled out my wallet copy of the ordination credentials I received as you had, online. I told my guests that I was from henceforth to be called Reverend Doctor Don Almighty and I expected ten percent of their income. I thought it was funnier than most of them did. But we all still had a good time.
Unless God calls you into a ministry, you shouldn't be ordained for anything. God's personal call on your life is the true ordination. What man puts on paper should simply be recognition for that very thing. In my humble opinion, no church, nor organization has the God-given right to ordain anybody. That is for God, and God alone. Anything else is superseding the authority of God.
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hattiebod
Guest
Perhaps serving the flock...as Jesus himself described us, should be taken a little more seriously? it is not a joke....if you really understood what it means to to be lost...or to live with the lost, to feel the seriousness of the lost?.... its not funny. Its not a joke. As Christians, it is a matter of life and death. Its actually sad....terribly sad that Christians are expressing their salvation in such a way. If i have misunderstood, I apologise...but as a christian, i cannot help think those seeking the truth here could be confused. God Bless you. <><
Apparently there is a church in California who will 'ordain; anyone who fills out the online application. My roommate and I didn't believe it so we did it. And lo and behold about three days later we got emails saying we were officially ordained pastors of the Universal Life Church in Modesto? California.
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GRA
Guest
"And a corollary to this is -- Why would anything that God ordains need to be [re-]ordained by man...???"
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BishopSEH
Guest
I would never recommend online ordination to anyone. There was a time when it was all the rave to get ordained online. However, churches frown upon this practice. Most churches, even house churches will not except a person ordained online as valid for the pastorate. There are some exceptions to this but the reason for that is because of the use a person makes of their online ordination. The exception is a person gets it then serves in active vocational ministry for no less than 5 years. Of course then they are being accepted more on the persons practical experience rather than the quickie ordination.
Today getting that experience is impossible unless you start your own church. This is usually done by planting a house church and is fraught with peril as I can well attest too. There are a number of modern churches, mostly in the south and mid-west which had their starts by someone that got ordained online, gathered a congregation and worked hard and faithfully until they could plant an establishment church.
For most though they got their ordination out of boredom one night or as a joke. Something they could show their friends. The thing is, true ordination is done by a congregation and not an organization or committee. If a Pastor is not accepted he will not last or the church will fall apart as people stop coming. Seminaries train in hypothetical theological matters. Practical training happens on the job. Anyone that has ever gone to get a job fresh out of college with no practical experience knows exactly what I mean.
Jesus taught His disciples with a mix of classroom training in private discussions with them and in practical training putting them to work and having them report back to Him. Then going over with them what they experienced and giving correction. Take for example when Peter asked the Lord why a certain man was born blind. He asked if it was his sin or his parents sin that caused it. Jesus provided correction stating it was neither the man's sin nor his parents but was to show the glory of God.
Or take the man who brought his son to the disciples to be healed. They did what they had been trained to up to that point. Jesus told them that it took a personal sacrifice of prayer and fasting. Then the Lord cast the spirit out of the boy. The disciples learned a valuable lesson in the field. If the disciples had gone to seminary and tried to face such a situation in the real world they would have been lost because they would have been on their own without their teacher.
It is an interesting note that as seminaries produce more and more "trained" clergy, the burn out rate among those same clergy has sky rocketed, this is across denominational lines. Seminaries just are not equipped to provide the practical training and experience needed that could be so easily attainded following the pattern of instruction instituted by the Lord Himself.
In Christ,
Bishop SEH
Today getting that experience is impossible unless you start your own church. This is usually done by planting a house church and is fraught with peril as I can well attest too. There are a number of modern churches, mostly in the south and mid-west which had their starts by someone that got ordained online, gathered a congregation and worked hard and faithfully until they could plant an establishment church.
For most though they got their ordination out of boredom one night or as a joke. Something they could show their friends. The thing is, true ordination is done by a congregation and not an organization or committee. If a Pastor is not accepted he will not last or the church will fall apart as people stop coming. Seminaries train in hypothetical theological matters. Practical training happens on the job. Anyone that has ever gone to get a job fresh out of college with no practical experience knows exactly what I mean.
Jesus taught His disciples with a mix of classroom training in private discussions with them and in practical training putting them to work and having them report back to Him. Then going over with them what they experienced and giving correction. Take for example when Peter asked the Lord why a certain man was born blind. He asked if it was his sin or his parents sin that caused it. Jesus provided correction stating it was neither the man's sin nor his parents but was to show the glory of God.
Or take the man who brought his son to the disciples to be healed. They did what they had been trained to up to that point. Jesus told them that it took a personal sacrifice of prayer and fasting. Then the Lord cast the spirit out of the boy. The disciples learned a valuable lesson in the field. If the disciples had gone to seminary and tried to face such a situation in the real world they would have been lost because they would have been on their own without their teacher.
It is an interesting note that as seminaries produce more and more "trained" clergy, the burn out rate among those same clergy has sky rocketed, this is across denominational lines. Seminaries just are not equipped to provide the practical training and experience needed that could be so easily attainded following the pattern of instruction instituted by the Lord Himself.
In Christ,
Bishop SEH
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Powemm
Guest
Bishop, do you think the burn out is because people aren't going to God directly and the manifested weight from this has cast the burden onto
Pastors instead of on God where they belong ? I've been wondering about that after reading some
Articles Recently about pastoral burnout as you
Mentioned .. Just curios .. Thanks! Glad to see you among the group
In christ
Michelle
Pastors instead of on God where they belong ? I've been wondering about that after reading some
Articles Recently about pastoral burnout as you
Mentioned .. Just curios .. Thanks! Glad to see you among the group
In christ
Michelle
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Powemm
Guest
It is interesting about the online ordination , the only person I know that has done this was my manager where I use to work.. there was a
Mandatory issuance of flu shots among the hospital staff or be terminated .. Only way to get out of it was to have an allergy to eggs or a letter from your pastor stating religious beliefs against it .. She stated she went online and got ordained in no time .. Her only purpose for it was to bypass these mandates with the hospital
Mandatory issuance of flu shots among the hospital staff or be terminated .. Only way to get out of it was to have an allergy to eggs or a letter from your pastor stating religious beliefs against it .. She stated she went online and got ordained in no time .. Her only purpose for it was to bypass these mandates with the hospital
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BishopSEH
Guest
Bishop, do you think the burn out is because people aren't going to God directly and the manifested weight from this has cast the burden onto
Pastors instead of on God where they belong ? I've been wondering about that after reading some
Articles Recently about pastoral burnout as you
Mentioned .. Just curios .. Thanks! Glad to see you among the group
In christ
Michelle
Powemm,
I think that is a big part of it but only one piece of the puzzle. You see Pastors are first and foremost, servants. With that mindset we are happiest when serving. We also tend to take a lot of the load on ourselves. We lead ministries, do house calls, hospitals visitations, weddings, funerals, counseling, conflict resolution and so much more.
Moses was well on his way to burn out in his day. He took on too much and the stress was overwhelming. It was his father in law that finally told him to delegate to other believers some of the weight he was carrying. Pastors are notoriously bad at this. More often than not, no one is really even aware till their pastor ends up in the hospital or dead and sitting in his office curled up and rocking in a corner because the stress has made him snap. If the chance is there for recovery, ever last one of them will tell you that they were serving God and didn't see it coming.
Most sadly don't ever recover enough to return to service but those that do learn to delegate and to say no. The Apostles already knew this lesson which is why they selected men to be deacons to handle much of the work that needed to be done outside the gathering of believers.
People will look to their leaders. Political, social, religious, a boss, any one that looks like they can help with their problem. We don't think much about the fact that there were 50 people ahead of us with the same idea or one hundred behind us. We just need help and pastors help.
So its a combination of factors of which the fool that gets an online ordination is prepared for nor is the faithful seminary student. Some figure it out in time to head off trouble. Seminary has value, do not doubt that. Knowledge doesn't trump experience but both combine make for one powerful servant of God.
In Christ,
Bishop SEH