Origins, the fall of Satan and his angels

[Ahwatukee]

It says that he took a 3rd of the stars, stars could mean anything. Is there any other verses in the bible that talk about the fall of Satan's angels as well.

Hello finaldesire,

Here in Revelation 12, the context itself reveals the symbolism of the stars. See the following:

"Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads. Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth."

"Then war broke out in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

Revelation 12 verses 1 thru 6 is a summary, where verse 7 thru 17 is a detailed account.

A third of the stars being flung to the earth, is synonymous with Satan and his angels being flung to the earth.

If you'll notice in verse 4, the dragon's tail flings a third of the stars to the earth, then in verse 9 the dragon is identified as Satan, with the symbolism of the stars being revealed as "his angels" who are hurled to the earth with him.


Therefore, the context identifies the dragon as representing Satan and the stars are symbolic representing his angels.

 

[finaldesire]

Hello finaldesire,

Here in Revelation 12, the context itself reveals the symbolism of the stars. See the following:

"Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads. Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth."

"Then war broke out in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

Revelation 12 verses 1 thru 6 is a summary, where verse 7 thru 17 is a detailed account.

A third of the stars being flung to the earth, is synonymous with Satan and his angels being flung to the earth.

If you'll notice in verse 4, the dragon's tail flings a third of the stars to the earth, then in verse 9 the dragon is identified as Satan, with the symbolism of the stars being revealed as "his angels" who are hurled to the earth with him.


Therefore, the context identifies the dragon as representing Satan and the stars are symbolic representing his angels.

OK that helps, so revelations is a book that revels the hidden things? So it can be talking about past, present and future.

 

[stonesoffire]

IMO

if you accept the gap between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2, the fall of Lucifer and 1/3 angels makes sense.

 

[dcontroversal]

Jesus said. "I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven" <---Past tense and there is evidence that Satan was present in Genesis during the renovation and or creation depending on what you believe about Genesis 1 and 2

 

[finaldesire]

IMO

if you accept the gap between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2, the fall of Lucifer and 1/3 angels makes sense.

As in the gap theory?

 

[finaldesire]

Jesus said. "I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven" <---Past tense and there is evidence that Satan was present in Genesis during the renovation and or creation depending on what you believe about Genesis 1 and 2

I believe in stuff, the stuff that is not beyond the scriptures I will talk about, but the stuff that is (Could be) beyond what is written, I will not talk about.

I keep that close to my heart.

 

[dcontroversal]

I believe in stuff, the stuff that is not beyond the scriptures I will talk about, but the stuff that is (Could be) beyond what is written, I will not talk about.

I keep that close to my heart.

Amen and what is your point...? Peace by the way....have been down 11 times, spent over a year in AU and love your country and people....

 

[louis]

Jesus knows the future.

However that doesn't change the fact he said Satan's fall from from Heaven was in the Past after the 70 came back from healing folks and casting out demons.

Folks rejected Jesus because they said Elijah had to come first, not realising who John the Baptist was.

This generation chooses to be just as blind for they say they see and don't ask God to show them if what they see is truth or demonic deceptions.

Satan was already on the earth when Adam and Eve were around.
In the book of Job, the Lord in heaven says to Satan: "where have you been"; to which Satan replies: going to and from the earth, and walking up and down in it.
So when did the Lord see Satan fall from heaven like lightning?
Was it after Job? Was it when the Lord and His disciples were going around Judea?
And if it was any of those, or anything in between, how then do you rectify Satan along with his angels being cast to the earth in Revelation 12, which pertains to the hereafter, after the 1st century AD?

Job 1:7 [FONT=&quot]And the [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Lord[/FONT][FONT=&quot] said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Lord[/FONT][FONT=&quot], and said, From going to and fro in the earth,[/FONT][FONT=&quot] and from walking up and down in it.[/FONT]

 

[louis]

It says that he took a 3rd of the stars, stars could mean anything. Is there any other verses in the bible that talk about the fall of Satan's angels as well.

Daniel 8:10, describes the little horn casting some of heavens host to the ground and stomping all over on them.


Daniel 8:10 And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.

 

[louis]

When Jesus saw Satan fall as lightening it was because Satan came down as fast as he could to try and deal with the expedient multiplication of Jesus’ earthly ministry given to his apostles and then also other disciples.

When Satan and his wicked angels were cast out of heaven as the red dragon it was because Jesus of Nazareth had ascended into heaven, placed his blood on the altar of God, thus ending all legal debate concerning God’s worthiness to be God, to redeem mankind, cleanse the temple, take the book out of his Father’s hand, ascend the most high throne of God and sitting down on the right hand of God.
It was then that open warfare in heaven began, and Michael was authorized to throw the bums out of heaven.

So, if according to your perspective Satan came down to deal with the Lord and His disciples, Satan then supposedly was not on the earth prior to this?

 

[louis]

But the fall of Satan happened in genesis, right?

Satan was already the Lords adversary in the garden. He still had access to heaven afterward as we can see in the book of Job.
When Satan along with his angels are cast to the earth in Revelation 12, is when the woman is in the wilderness, at which time Satan invests the beast which rises from the sea (aka the bottomless pit) with his power (Revelation 13:1-2).
The beast who rises from the bottomless pit/the sea with Satans power then initiates war against the two witnesses who have been witnessing in Jerusalem for 42 months (Revelation 11:7).
I don't see where any of these events have occurred, and as such Satans being cast to the earth along with these other correlating events pertain to the future.


Revelation 13:1 [FONT=&quot]And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

Revelation 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.[/FONT]

 

[Deade]

As in the gap theory?

THE OLD EARTH (GAP) THEORY

To better understand what the Bible really says, about the age of the earth, we must critically inspect the translation accuracy of our modern Bibles. “In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light: And there was light” (Genesis 1:1-3). The Hebrew word hâyâh translated to the first "was" in Genesis 1:2, can just as easily mean "became." Verse one is a general statement that depicts the creation: A perfect and complete work at the very time it was done. God would not create an uneven, disorderly world.

In verse two, we could say that, somehow, the earth "became" without form and void. Translated from the Hebrew, are the words for "without form" (tôhûw) and "void" (bôhûw). In their original tongue, both these words basically mean the same thing: Empty or desolate. Enter the "gap theory," which states: There could have been multiple thousands of years between the time "in the beginning," when God did the creating in Genesis 1:1; and Genesis 1:2, when the earth was (or became) empty and desolate. In essence then, the creation depicted in Genesis chapter 1, after verse 1, constitutes a re-creation. This is also called the “old earth” doctrine.

 

[MarcR]

Is this verse in revelation the only book that talks about the fall of Satan and his angels?

Revelation 12:4 (NIV)
4 Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child the moment he was born.

I am curious because this verse would be referring to the past, not the present or the future. But where does it say this verse is something that happened in the past.

Thank you.

Isa 14:12-15
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
KJV


Luke 10:17-18
17 And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.
18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.
KJV

 

[Deade]

Satan was already on the earth when Adam and Eve were around.
In the book of Job, the Lord in heaven says to Satan: "where have you been"; to which Satan replies: going to and from the earth, and walking up and down in it.
So when did the Lord see Satan fall from heaven like lightning?
Was it after Job? Was it when the Lord and His disciples were going around Judea?
And if it was any of those, or anything in between, how then do you rectify Satan along with his angels being cast to the earth in Revelation 12, which pertains to the hereafter, after the 1st century AD?

Job 1:7 And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

The fall of Satan

I believe in the gap theory, as it aligns with the true picture given us in other places in scripture. Satan had already fallen by the time he got to the Garden of Eden (see Ezekiel 28:12-16). Also consider the following: “And it shall come to pass in the day that the Lord shall give thee rest from thy sorrow, and from thy fear, and from the hard bondage wherein thou wast made to serve, that thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, how hath the oppressor ceased! The golden city ceased! The Lord hath broken the staff of the wicked, and the sceptre of the rulers. He who smote the people in wrath with a continual stroke, he that ruled the nations in anger, is persecuted, and none hindereth. The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: They break forth into singing. Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee, and the cedars of Lebanon, saying, since thou art laid down, no feller is come up against us. Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: It stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations. All they shall speak and say unto thee, art thou also become weak as we? Art thou become like unto us? Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: The worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee. How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit. They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms; that made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners? All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house. But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet. Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: The seed of evildoers shall never be renowned” (Isaiah 14:3-20). This Lucifer, turned evil, can be none other than Satan. God was, and still is, casting Satan out of His government.

The earth became desolate through gross mismanagement. God had obviously given Satan charge over all the earth, but the devil's rebellious ways brought about a major catastrophe that made an absolute mess of the planet. God then re-created the world and removed Satan from his rulership and placed man in his stead. “And God blessed them [mankind], and God said unto them, be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: And have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth” (Genesis 1:28). The devil still rules the world system, but he now does it in an indirect way——by influencing man. God had given us the history of the world, as recorded in Genesis, only from the time that man entered into the picture. What had taken place on the earth, before this time, is not fully revealed nor relevant to what God is doing with mankind. It is possible that even some types of humanoids existed prior to the re-creation. Science has dated the Neanderthal and others to this time frame. Although I suspect the carbon-dating method might be somewhat flawed. Has the atmosphere always broken carbon down at the same rate? I doubt it. Scientists still try exclude an intelligent overseer, when dealing with their theories.

 

[MHz]

Is this verse in revelation the only book that talks about the fall of Satan and his angels?

Revelation 12:4 (NIV)
4 Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child the moment he was born.

I am curious because this verse would be referring to the past, not the present or the future. But where does it say this verse is something that happened in the past.

Thank you.

The Book of Jude is specific to what fallen angels are and how it happened and their general attitude to wards God. 2Pe:2:17 also covers them. Satan's actions against man follows what he did to Job and death is allowed in the final woe before the return.

Re:12 is actually an expansion on Ge:3:15 as the first woman is Eve and the 12 stars are the OT Saints that were raised to the Re:4 Temple. The next woman mentioned is Mary, mother of Jesus and the last woman is the beloved Disciple.

The war mentioned was fought at the time of the flood. Water drowned the giants. The fallen angels were put into the Pit by 10,000 holy angels.

De:33:2:
And he said,
The LORD came from Sinai,
and rose up from Seir unto them;
he shined forth from mount Paran,
and he came with ten thousands of saints:
from his right hand went a fiery law for them.

 

[MHz]

The fall of Satan

I believe in the gap theory, as it aligns with the true picture given us in other places in scripture. Satan had already fallen by the time he got to the Garden of Eden (see Ezekiel 28:12-16).

Really?

Ge:3:12-15:
And the man said,
The woman whom thou gavest to be with me,
she gave me of the tree,
and I did eat.
And the LORD God said unto the woman,
What is this that thou hast done?
And the woman said,
The serpent beguiled me,
and I did eat.
And the LORD God said unto the serpent,
Because thou hast done this,
thou art cursed above all cattle,
and above every beast of the field;
upon thy belly shalt thou go,
and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
And I will put enmity between thee and the woman,
and between thy seed and her seed;
it shall bruise thy head,
and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Joh:8:44:
Ye are of your father the devil,
and the lusts of your father ye will do.
He was a murderer from the beginning,
and abode not in the truth,
because there is no truth in him.
When he speaketh a lie,
he speaketh of his own:
for he is a liar,
and the father of it.

Lucifer weaken the nations through the Tower of Babel incident.

 

[stonesoffire]

As in the gap theory?

its not a theory in my opinion.

 

[louis]

The fall of Satan

I believe in the gap theory, as it aligns with the true picture given us in other places in scripture. Satan had already fallen by the time he got to the Garden of Eden (see Ezekiel 28:12-16). Also consider the following: “And it shall come to pass in the day that the Lord shall give thee rest from thy sorrow, and from thy fear, and from the hard bondage wherein thou wast made to serve, that thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, how hath the oppressor ceased! The golden city ceased! The Lord hath broken the staff of the wicked, and the sceptre of the rulers. He who smote the people in wrath with a continual stroke, he that ruled the nations in anger, is persecuted, and none hindereth. The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: They break forth into singing. Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee, and the cedars of Lebanon, saying, since thou art laid down, no feller is come up against us. Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: It stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations. All they shall speak and say unto thee, art thou also become weak as we? Art thou become like unto us? Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: The worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee. How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit. They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms; that made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners? All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house. But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet. Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: The seed of evildoers shall never be renowned” (Isaiah 14:3-20). This Lucifer, turned evil, can be none other than Satan. God was, and still is, casting Satan out of His government.

The earth became desolate through gross mismanagement. God had obviously given Satan charge over all the earth, but the devil's rebellious ways brought about a major catastrophe that made an absolute mess of the planet. God then re-created the world and removed Satan from his rulership and placed man in his stead. “And God blessed them [mankind], and God said unto them, be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: And have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth” (Genesis 1:28). The devil still rules the world system, but he now does it in an indirect way——by influencing man. God had given us the history of the world, as recorded in Genesis, only from the time that man entered into the picture. What had taken place on the earth, before this time, is not fully revealed nor relevant to what God is doing with mankind. It is possible that even some types of humanoids existed prior to the re-creation. Science has dated the Neanderthal and others to this time frame. Although I suspect the carbon-dating method might be somewhat flawed. Has the atmosphere always broken carbon down at the same rate? I doubt it. Scientists still try exclude an intelligent overseer, when dealing with their theories.

When Revelation 12:9 describes Satan as that old serpent; the implication is that Satan has been an adversary to the Lord from of old, and therefore fallen in the sense that he has had a different agenda that that of the Lords for a very long time.

Revelation 12:9 [FONT=&quot]And the great dragon was cast out,[/FONT][FONT=&quot] that old serpent[/FONT][FONT=&quot], called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.[/FONT]

 

[stonesoffire]

I believe in stuff, the stuff that is not beyond the scriptures I will talk about, but the stuff that is (Could be) beyond what is written, I will not talk about.

I keep that close to my heart.

very wise. I tend to blurt out my pearls, then get trampled. When will I learn?

 

[Joseppi]

So, if according to your perspective Satan came down to deal with the Lord and His disciples, Satan then supposedly was not on the earth prior to this?

Satan had the legal right to come and go as he pleased. See the book of Job. Satan in the garden.

God chose to establish a legal system whereby all debate was to be done lawfully.

The red dragon is representative of the conspiracy headed by Satan and seven angels that challenged the worthiness of God to be God.

The little book in God’s right hand in Revelation is sealed with seven seals because it is the legal evidence that God has proving his existence and written word before the angels were ever created.

The little book couldn’t be opened until a man proving himself worthy opens it. See Revelation.

All angels awoke as created beings on the same morning. See Job. See Revelation.

Once the seals are broken Satan has no choice but to respond on earth in an attempt to prevent it. For it is but a matter of time till the angel of God stands on earth and sea and declares the earth God’s kingdom once again.

Satan was cast out by the blood of Jesus, which blood proves Jesus of Nazareth is the heir to the earth by direct lineage to Adam as the firstborn Son according to the divine right of kings, and that he is also heir to the throne of God by divine right as the only begotten Son of God.

This why Jesus wore a purple robe because purple signifies blue (heaven) and red (man) (Adam).

Angels rebelled, but before they were created God created both, heaven and earth. For God knew rebellion was possible and according to his purpose he established earth as the means of proving all things in a lawful manner.
As in, a clay seal proving evidence isn’t and hasn’t been tampered with.

Jesus body is of earth. And he alone as a man of clay, lower than the angels, rose, by proving himself worthy to ascend to the most high throne of God.
Thus reuniting the kingdoms of heaven and earth.

Until then Satan although unworthy, was allowed to and fro, for by him God proves the foolishness of choosing evil.

This why the earth is the great battleground.

Satan in the book of Job is pricked by God to consider the righteousness of Job. For, since the time in the garden of Eden, when informed of God that a man would come and crush the his serpent head, he was roaming to and fro and up and down in the earth to find the promised man and kill him.

We are now close to the conclusion of God’s short work on earth and now, Satan and all his minions are in the earth and working to prevent the return of Jesus Christ. This is there last place to make a stand.

Because the only begotten Son of God is proven worthy so also is his Father.