Orthodox Jew answers a few questions

[ZNP]

This is what Gill says about Revelation 2:2

And how thou canst not bear them that are evil; that were so either in their principles or in their practices, or both; men that lived immoral lives, and held erroneous doctrines, these the primitive ministers and churches could not bear; they had an inward abhorrence and detestation of them in their minds; they could not bear them in communion with them; they admonished them according to the nature of their offence, and cast out such as were obstinate and incorrigible; they withdrew from such as were disorderly, and rejected heretics after the first and second admonition; their zeal for church discipline is here taken notice of to their commendation,

And thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not,

and hast found them liars; this doubtless was done in the church at Ephesus, where, after the Apostle Paul's departure, grievous wolves, in sheep's clothing, entered, and men arose from among themselves, speaking perverse things, Acts 20:29; yet it was not peculiar to that church, though it was to the apostolic age; for in no other could men with any face pretend to be the apostles of Christ; and such there were, who sprung up in the several churches at Jerusalem, Corinth, Galatia, and elsewhere, who called themselves the apostles of Christ, but were false apostles, deceitful workers; they pretended to have their doctrine, call, mission, and commission, immediately from Christ, as the true apostles had, and a power to work miracles, and talked of inspirations and revelations by the Spirit of God. Now the apostles, ministers, and churches of those times, tried their pretensions and doctrines by the word of God, and by the fruits which they produced in themselves and others; and through that discerning of spirits which they had, they found them to be liars; that they were not, nor had they what they pretended to be, and have, and exposed them as such.

 

[ThyKingdomComeSoon]

She claims she is an orthodox Jew, how do you know that? I asked 5 very relevant questions, I will post them again for all to see, you tell me the basis to say they are "not in good faith".

1. Post 107 -- I heard that in Leviticus 25 the law concerning the Jubilee is given and one word is translated "You shall return" I think the word is וְשַׁבְתֶּם Anyway this person said the numerical value of this word is 708, and 1948 was the Jewish year (5)708. Is that correct?

2. Post 108 --
I heard that Jews around the world were speaking

Amos 9:11 In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old:

on May 14, 1948, the day that Israel was raised up again. Apparently they have set verses to read from the prophets on different days. Is this correct?

3. Post 109 --
Mark Twain came and visited Israel and told the whole world how desolate it was. It reminds me of what Moses said in Deuteronomy,

29:22 So that the generation to come of your children that shall rise up after you, and the stranger that shall come from a far land, shall say, when they see the plagues of that land, and the sicknesses which the Lord hath laid upon it;

23 And that the whole land thereof is brimstone, and salt, and burning, that it is not sown, nor beareth, nor any grass groweth therein, like the overthrow of Sodom, and Gomorrah, Admah, and Zeboim, which the Lord overthrew in his anger, and in his wrath:

24 Even all nations shall say, Wherefore hath the Lord done thus unto this land? what meaneth the heat of this great anger?

25 Then men shall say, Because they have forsaken the covenant of the Lord God of their fathers, which he made with them when he brought them forth out of the land of Egypt:

26 For they went and served other gods, and worshipped them, gods whom they knew not, and whom he had not given unto them:

27 And the anger of the Lord was kindled against this land, to bring upon it all the curses that are written in this book:

28 And the Lord rooted them out of their land in anger, and in wrath, and in great indignation, and cast them into another land, as it is this day.
29 The secret things belong unto the Lord our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.

I heard the last day that Mark Twain (Samuel Clemens) was in Israel was the same day that these verses in Deuteronomy were appointed to be spoken. This was 1867 -- the first year of Jubilee. 50 years later is 1917 and the Balfour Declaration, 50 years later is 1967 and 50 years after that is 2017.

So my question is I heard that for two thousand years the Jewish prayer has been "Lord hear our prayer and be merciful and bring us back". Samuel ("The Lord has heard") Clemens ("has been merciful"). Do you think Samuel Clemens was a fulfillment of this word in Deuteronomy?

4. Post 119 -- She said she was not crazy about Israel. I asked this

How does that square with being an orthodox Jew? I thought the Torah and the Prophets were very clear on the position concerning Jews and Israel.

5. Post 155 --
I have a couple of questions about Isaiah 53 concerning what Orthodox Jews understand from these verses.

Isaiah 53:1 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed? 2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him. 3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not. 4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. 5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. 6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

Question 1 -- When Isaiah says that the Lord has laid the iniquity of us all on Him is he saying that He will be the scape goat for the sins of all the people? If so does that mean he will be driven from the people of Israel as an outcast?

7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth. 8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

Question 2 -- For the transgression of my people he was stricken -- does this mean He is the lamb that is sacrificed as the atoning sacrifice?

9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.

Is this talking about the Messiah? If so it says he makes his grave? I thought the Messiah inherits an eternal kingdom, so why is He dead?

I think aviva is an angry version of chat GPT, something wrong with her programming, she cannot comprehend your questions due to her limited database and therefore cannot answer..I would no longer waste my time if I were you....

 

[ZNP]

We are called to love💖 not condemn, remember? God is LOVE.

Do you remember this? It is a command.

2Thessalonians 3:6. Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.

Do you remember this warning from Jesus?

Matt 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

I thought God is love.

Phil 1:9 And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment;

You need love in knowledge and all judgment.

 

[ZNP]

I think aviva is an angry version of chat GPT, something wrong with her programming, she cannot comprehend your questions due to her limited database and therefore cannot answer..

I agree

I would no longer waste my time if I were you....

I'm not wasting my time with her but will continue with things I think are important like this issue of

And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment;

It is very sad that many believers think we should embrace the wolves, and poisonous snakes as though that is "love".

 

[Aviva]

I think aviva is an angry version of chat GPT, something wrong with her programming, she cannot comprehend your questions due to her limited database and therefore cannot answer..I would no longer waste my time if I were you....

You must be part of the Jewish outreach.

 

[Aviva]

That's not a kind response at all. You're judging someone as you'll be judged Mt 7:1-6. We are called to love💖 not condemn, remember? God is LOVE.
ps a phony what? do you mean

Don't worry about it. Most Christians aren't like him and I know that. I'm not even annoyed.

Apparently part of the Jewish faith is a requirement to entertain his question, just like it's an article of the Christian faith to vote for Trump. According to him anyway.

 

[Cameron143]

I agree


I'm not wasting my time with her but will continue with things I think are important like this issue of

And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment;

It is very sad that many believers think we should embrace the wolves, and poisonous snakes as though that is "love".

She didn't come in sheep's clothing. She identified herself at the outset. And with that understanding, she could benefit some who do not understand different aspects of the Jewish faith and how they might have application to the new covenant.

 

[ZNP]

She didn't come in sheep's clothing. She identified herself at the outset. And with that understanding, she could benefit some who do not understand different aspects of the Jewish faith and how they might have application to the new covenant.

Yes, she said she was an orthodox Jew, I asked 5 questions concerning that, read them, they are from the Torah and the Prophets asking for the Orthodox view on them. Her response is that these questions are not in good faith? You judge.

Six months ago I tested out ChatGPT. I found it was very good on questions that an encyclopedia could answer but when I asked it questions on the Bible it was as though it blew a fuse and would respond "there are many different thoughts". So when the AI does a search sure enough it finds many different opinions and so it is unable to respond. I suspect any Orthodox Rabbi could have and would have responded to my five questions, but AI would blow a fuse.

Try it for yourself.

Also, why are you not bothered by her lies? She says that I say "an article of the Christian faith is to vote for Trump". Brazen lie.

 

[ZNP]

The Spirit of the Antichrist denies that Jesus came in the flesh.

This is why my first question was about Israel returning in 1948 having been predicted by Moses in Leviticus 25. Any Orthodox Jew would embrace that but the spirit of Antichrist would deny it and claim the question was not in good faith.

Jesus is the incarnated word of God. Whenever the word of God is fulfilled in prophecy it is proof that the Bible is the word of God. All of my questions centered on that, any Orthodox Jew would embrace that the Torah and the Prophets are the word of God, no genuine Jew would claim those questions are "not in good faith".

 

[TabinRivCA]

Yes, she said she was an orthodox Jew, I asked 5 questions concerning that, read them, they are from the Torah and the Prophets asking for the Orthodox view on them. Her response is that these questions are not in good faith? You judge.

Six months ago I tested out ChatGPT. I found it was very good on questions that an encyclopedia could answer but when I asked it questions on the Bible it was as though it blew a fuse and would respond "there are many different thoughts". So when the AI does a search sure enough it finds many different opinions and so it is unable to respond. I suspect any Orthodox Rabbi could have and would have responded to my five questions, but AI would blow a fuse.

Try it for yourself.

Also, why are you not bothered by her lies? She says that I say "an article of the Christian faith is to vote for Trump". Brazen lie.

That's not a brazen lie, that's her viewpoint, just like when you state your assumptions.

 

[Cameron143]

Yes, she said she was an orthodox Jew, I asked 5 questions concerning that, read them, they are from the Torah and the Prophets asking for the Orthodox view on them. Her response is that these questions are not in good faith? You judge.

Six months ago I tested out ChatGPT. I found it was very good on questions that an encyclopedia could answer but when I asked it questions on the Bible it was as though it blew a fuse and would respond "there are many different thoughts". So when the AI does a search sure enough it finds many different opinions and so it is unable to respond. I suspect any Orthodox Rabbi could have and would have responded to my five questions, but AI would blow a fuse.

Try it for yourself.

I trust the research you have done. And anyone is free to answer or not, just as anyone can form an opinion on people's choices. And we can do so lovingly or not. What we can't do is fool God about what is really true of us.

 

[ZNP]

One point that most reading this thread may not be aware of, we would think of Hasidic Jews as "orthodox" but they do not like to use that term. They consider themselves normal Jews rather than reformed. So the very title of this thread was like a red warning light to me.

 

[ZNP]

That's not a brazen lie, that's her viewpoint, just like when you state your assumptions.

No, you can't claim that someone else says something that they have clearly not said and even have made it very clear they don't believe. That is not an opinion, it is slander and a lie.

 

[Ted01]

Do you remember this? It is a command.

2Thessalonians 3:6. Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.

Do you remember this warning from Jesus?

Matt 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

I always thought that the term "brother" wouldn't apply to someone who professes not to be a brother/sister... Do you consider Jews that openly deny Jesus as the Christ, as "brothers"?

I'd think this Scripture would apply better in this situation...?
1 Cor. 5:12 (ESV)

For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge?

And I must have missed the post where she claimed to be a prophet(ess)

 

[ThyKingdomComeSoon]

She didn't come in sheep's clothing. She identified herself at the outset. And with that understanding, she could benefit some who do not understand different aspects of the Jewish faith and how they might have application to the new covenant.

I agree, she would benefit as would we, but she is just here to answer a few general questions, a conversation to get understanding goes both ways, unless i missed a few posts, I do not recall aviva asking any questions about our faith.

What shocks me is her arrogance towards many if not all here, people ask nicely and she makes fun of people, plenty of examples above in this thread I wish she would ask us a few questions but she voiced that she has no interest ,It is a shame as we want to prove to her Jesus IS the Messiah but she does not seem to want to listen.
If she would in sincerity ask pertinent question about our faith I would gladly agree to answer, I could prove to her Christ is the Messiah with the old testament alone but will aviva ask in this thread so we can have a real conversation both ways?.

She is the only one who knows.

Blessings Cameron

 

[Aviva]

I agree, she would benefit as would we, but she is just here to answer a few general questions, a conversation to get understanding goes both ways, unless i missed a few posts, I do not recall aviva asking any questions about our faith.

What shocks me is her arrogance towards many if not all here, people ask nicely and she makes fun of people, plenty of examples above in this thread I wish she would ask us a few questions but she voiced that she has no interest ,It is a shame as we want to prove to her Jesus IS the Messiah but she does not seem to want to listen.
If she would in sincerity ask pertinent question about our faith I would gladly agree to answer, I could prove to her Christ is the Messiah with the old testament alone but will aviva ask in this thread so we can have a real conversation both ways?.

She is the only one who knows.

Blessings Cameron

Don't worry, calling me stupid repeatedly has really opened my eyes.

 

[ThyKingdomComeSoon]

Don't worry, calling me stupid repeatedly has really opened my eyes.

And there you go again, you just proved what i said, i used sarcasm to wake you up to let you know there is something very wrong with your unsufferable arrogance! If you want people to respect you please act accordingly! you do not need to be on the defensive all the time.

Blessings

 

[ZNP]

I always thought that the term "brother" wouldn't apply to someone who professes not to be a brother/sister... Do you consider Jews that openly deny Jesus as the Christ, as "brothers"?

I'd think this Scripture would apply better in this situation...?
1 Cor. 5:12 (ESV)

For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge?

And I must have missed the post where she claimed to be a prophet(ess)

I was responding to the idea that love means we can't judge and not simply to Aviva or any of her posts.

My point is that it is far too simplistic to say we are to love, in Philippians it says 9 And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment;

My point is we need both knowledge and judgment.

The verses in Revelation make it very clear we are to be careful of false prophets coming into the church or Balaam who taught Balak to cast a stumbling block before the saints, or Jezebel. None of these are "brothers", nor are wolves in sheep's clothing.

 

[Ted01]

I was responding to the idea that love means we can't judge and not simply to Aviva or any of her posts.

My point is that it is far too simplistic to say we are to love, in Philippians it says 9 And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment;

My point is we need both knowledge and judgment.

The verses in Revelation make it very clear we are to be careful of false prophets coming into the church or Balaam who taught Balak to cast a stumbling block before the saints, or Jezebel. None of these are "brothers", nor are wolves in sheep's clothing.

Oh, okay... my mistake.

I was going with the idea that some other members were calling you out for condemning/judging the OP and you were using those verses to justify your judging.

I apologize.

 

[ZNP]

What shocks me is her arrogance towards many if not all here,

Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.

I wasn't shocked, I thought it was one of the few things she said that was enlightening. It is possible that "Orthodox" Jews (does she mean Hasidic, who knows) do not realize that a number of Jews have been saved, become Christians and do quite a bit of speaking and teaching in the church. Jonathan Cahn being one of them, which is why I posted a link. As I have said I have grown up my entire life surrounded by Jews, half of my family is Jewish, so the arrogance was an eye opener.