John 5 does not specify a particular kind of faith, even if it did the mat 7 men who claim to know Jesus as their savior Believed in Jesus in so far as it meets the requirements of John 5.. There is no greater form of faith than to try and "name and claim" your place in salvation by using literal Holy Spirit lead miracles you've performed as evidence
John 5 doesn’t define different kinds of faith — it defines true faith. The Matthew 7 men thought they had it because they pointed to miracles, but miracles don’t prove belief. Claiming supernatural works is actually the highest form of self‑confidence, not saving faith, which is why Jesus says He never knew them.
You could also interpret the term 'Made alive," saved and regenerated as occurring together at the point Christ decides to not condemn you to Hell. Meaning 'at judgment.'
You can interpret “made alive,” “saved,” and “regenerated” as happening at judgment — when Christ chooses not to condemn — but that’s not how Jesus or Paul use the terms. In Scripture, “made alive” is a present reality, not a future verdict. Judgment is the decision; regeneration is the life that comes before it.
If verse 5 is your best evidence then your argument is in trouble. Because again, Nothing here says salvation happens when you decide to be saved. it says these things happen when you are saved. If Jesus saves you at the point of your judgement then EVERYTHING Eph 2 says here can be applied to my argument just as well.
Again the assignment is two fold: 1. find specific BCV that ties Being saved to the moment one is born again. 2. provide BCV to an action activity or work that the believer initiates, to be born again.
The clearest BCV is
Ephesians 2:5 — and it
does tie them together:
“He made us alive… by grace you have been saved.”
Paul uses
two verbs to describe
one act:
made alive (regeneration)
have been saved (salvation)
They occur
together, not sequentially.
This is not “when you decide to be saved.”
This is
when God acts.
And yes — if someone
insists salvation happens at judgment, they could try to push this verse forward.
But the grammar itself is
aorist + perfect, describing
a completed act with present results, not a future verdict.
So
Eph 2:5 meets requirement #1.
There is
no BCV where a human
initiates regeneration. None. Not one.
Every regeneration text attributes the action to
God,
the Spirit, or
Christ:
John 1:13 — “born…
not of the will of man, but of God.”
John 3:6–8 — “the Spirit gives birth.”
Titus 3:5 — “He saved us… by the washing of regeneration.”
1 Peter 1:3 — “He has caused us to be born again.”
James 1:18 — “Of His own will He brought us forth.”
There is
no verse where a human performs an action to trigger new birth.
Humans
respond,
believe,
seek,
repent,
obey,
follow,
endure,
buy,
ask,
knock — but none of those are described as
causing regeneration.
So
requirement #2 cannot be met, because Scripture never assigns the initiation of new birth to the believer.
Ephesians 2:5 ties salvation and new birth together in one divine act. And there is no BCV where a believer initiates regeneration — Scripture always attributes new birth to God alone.
5 he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit,
Titus 3:5 actually supports what I just told you — regeneration is God’s act, not ours. Paul says:
“He saved us… through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit.”
That means:
rebirth = His act
renewal = His act
saving = His act
Nothing in Titus 3:5 says
when He saves — only
how He saves.
And it explicitly denies any human‑initiated action:
“not because of righteous things we had done.”
So Titus 3:5 fits perfectly with the two points you challenged me on:
1. Salvation and rebirth happen together — God does both.
Titus 3:5 ties
saved and
rebirth in the same sentence, just like Ephesians 2:5.
2. There is no BCV where a believer initiates regeneration.
Titus 3:5 says the opposite:
He saved us… He washed… He renewed… the Spirit did the work.
That’s the whole point of the verse.
Now you are completely misrepresenting scripture. You are literally making stuff up and assigning BCV which has nothing to do with your exegesis:
1 John 5
Faith in the Incarnate Son of God
5:1 Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well.
It's my hope you made a simple mistake which can be remedied by a simple retraction, and are not intentionally lying which would have you double down on your exegesis.
You quoted:
1 John 5:1 “Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God…”
In Greek:
“believes” — present participle: \hopisteuoˉn
“is born” — perfect passive: \gegenneˉtaiektouTheou
That means:
the
believing one is
already one who
has been born of God
belief is the
evidence of having been born, not the
cause of being born
John is not saying, “When you believe, you trigger new birth.”
He’s saying, “If you are believing, that shows you
have been born of God.”
So I’m not making anything up, and I don’t need to retract:
1 John 5:1 ties ongoing belief to prior new birth—God’s act first, your believing as its fruit.
I fail to see the time line in the original script that you have assigned to this passage.
Where as it could be observed that The moment God makes you alive, a judgement had to be made just prior. Which points back to what I've been saying all along
You said:
“The moment God makes you alive, a judgment had to be made just prior.”
But that is
not what Paul says, and it’s not what the Greek grammar allows.
Ephesians 2:5 uses two verbs describing one act, not two events.
συνεζωοποίησεν — “He made us alive” (aorist: one completed act)
σεσῳσμένοι ἐστε — “you have been saved” (perfect: completed act with ongoing result)
Paul is not describing:
a judgment event
followed by a regeneration event
followed by a salvation event
He is describing
one divine act with
two descriptions.
There is
no temporal gap in the grammar.
None.
You’re inserting:
Christ judges you
Christ decides not to condemn you
Christ then makes you alive
Christ then saves you
But Paul only gives:
He made you alive — He saved you.
One act.
One moment.
No sequence.
You’re adding a “judgment‑just‑prior” step that
is not in the text.
That’s the issue.
Judgment in Scripture is always future, not the moment of regeneration
If regeneration happened
at judgment:
no one could walk in the Spirit before death
no one could be “new creation” in this life
no one could “grow up into salvation”
no one could “pass from death to life”
now (John 5:24)
no one could be “children of God”
now (1 John 3:1–2)
no one could be “alive to God”
now (Romans 6:11)
Your model collapses every present‑tense salvation text in the NT.
Ephesians 2:5 does not contain the timeline you’re assigning. Paul describes one divine act — making alive and saving — not a prior judgment followed by regeneration. Your interpretation adds a step the text never mentions.
