OSAS

[john832]

Come on...you're not serious. Do you not know that salvation is about new life not physical life but spiritual life? Are you really claiming that you cannot see that Jesus takes the part of man that is dead in sin and makes it alive unto God? Eph 2:1 And you hath He quickened who were dead in trespass and sins. Who walked in times past...you are not walking if you are dead physically. You is walking dead if you are dead spiritually.
You cite scriptures about the redemption of mans body when the subject here is redemption of the soul.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

And all this time I thought Paul knew what he was talking about. Silly me.

 

[Skinski7]

Skin no im not saying it forces me to sin i am saying we are imperfact being an in are current state are not capble of never sinning.. we may do it less after coming to christ but i still sin you still sin everyone on this site still sins ect.. therefore if being sved means you never sin than none of us are saved.

One must make the distinction between "sin unto death" and "sin not unto death" (1Joh 5:16-18).

"Sin unto death" is the OPPOSITE of "obedience unto righteousness" (Rom 6:16).

Thus is is fair to state that "sin unto death" = "disobedience to righteousness"

When a Christian comes to Christ the rebellion to God MUST CEASE. If the rebellion does not cease then there has been no genuine repentance. Without a genuine repentance one simply cannot work together with God, without repentance one simply cannot receive the implanted word for the rebellion is a rejection of the word.

One cannot obey and disobey at the same time. This is why Jesus taught one cannot serve two masters. The eye must be SINGLE. Hence Jesus taught we have to deny ourselves, pick up our cross and follow Him. One cannot FOLLOW and NOT FOLLOW at the same time. It is one or the other.

Thus a genuine Christian has ceased from sin, ie. willful presumptuous sin. A genuine Christian has ceased from CHOOSING to do wrong. Instead we are yielded to God from our hearts and thus we follow wherever He leads.

We may sin within the context of doing something wrong unwittingly and for that we have an advocate. There is no sacrifice for ongoing sin because that is treating the blood like a cloak for iniquity, treading the blood underfoot so to speak.

This "sinning less" teaching is a deception because it is a denial for the heart purity wrought in a believer and makes an allowance for rebellion to God to continue. Thus a professing Christian under this deception is in a state of serving Satan and God, more accurately they serve a false IMAGE of God. An IMAGE which accepts ongoing iniquity.

Don't fall for it.

 

[john832]

Come on...you're not serious. Do you not know that salvation is about new life not physical life but spiritual life? Are you really claiming that you cannot see that Jesus takes the part of man that is dead in sin and makes it alive unto God? Eph 2:1 And you hath He quickened who were dead in trespass and sins. Who walked in times past...you are not walking if you are dead physically. You is walking dead if you are dead spiritually.
You cite scriptures about the redemption of mans body when the subject here is redemption of the soul.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Hmmm,

1Co 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
1Co 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

1Co 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
1Co 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
1Co 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:
1Co 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

This is not the resurrection and reunification of the physical body with the soul. God gives us a brand new spiritual body at the resurrection...

1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

The dead are not conscious until the resurrection...

Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
Ecc 9:6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.

The dead do not thank God...

Psa 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?

The dead do not think...

Psa 146:4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.

WE are made alive at the resurrection...

1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

The soul is not immortal...

Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Eze 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

Eze 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

The wages of sin is death, not life in another place...

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

The whole idea of the immortality of the soul comes from this first recorded lie...

Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

But what did God say?

Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

What is the word for die here?

H4191
מוּת
mûth
mooth
A primitive root; to die (literally or figuratively); causatively to kill: - X at all, X crying, (be) dead (body, man, one), (put to, worthy of) death, destroy (-er), (cause to, be like to, must) die, kill, necro [-mancer], X must needs, slay, X surely, X very suddenly, X in [no] wise.

Yep, it really means to die.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Imagine salvation was actually being set free from the bondage of sin (that which compels people to keep on sinning) as well as from the condemnation wrought by sinning.

Was Israel free whilst in the service of the Egyptians? Or did Israel forsake their old master, pass through the Red Sea where their faith was subsequently TESTED in the wilderness.

Was Israel saved out of bondage in Egypt still in their sin, or did they forsake their old master in Egypt with a new heart of purity?

 

[notuptome]

Hmmm,

1Co 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
1Co 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

1Co 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
1Co 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
1Co 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:
1Co 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

This is not the resurrection and reunification of the physical body with the soul. God gives us a brand new spiritual body at the resurrection...

1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

The dead are not conscious until the resurrection...

Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
Ecc 9:6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.

The dead do not thank God...

Psa 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?

The dead do not think...

Psa 146:4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.

WE are made alive at the resurrection...

1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

The soul is not immortal...

Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Eze 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

Eze 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

The wages of sin is death, not life in another place...

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

The whole idea of the immortality of the soul comes from this first recorded lie...

Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

But what did God say?

Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

What is the word for die here?

H4191
מוּת
mûth
mooth
A primitive root; to die (literally or figuratively); causatively to kill: - X at all, X crying, (be) dead (body, man, one), (put to, worthy of) death, destroy (-er), (cause to, be like to, must) die, kill, necro [-mancer], X must needs, slay, X surely, X very suddenly, X in [no] wise.

Yep, it really means to die.

Romans 10:9-10 That if thou shall confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus and shall believe in thy heart that God hath raised Him from the dead thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Accept what God has written.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Skinski7]

Was Israel saved out of bondage in Egypt still in their sin, or did they forsake their old master in Egypt with a new heart of purity?

Israel was saved out of bondage to the slavery of the Egyptians. The bondage to the Egyptians REPRESENTS the bondage to sin.

When Jesus Christ sets one FREE INDEED (Joh 8:36) from being a SLAVE OF SIN (Joh 8:34) does the former slave continue to serve the master he was set free from?

Think about it.

Moreover Paul explains that "we are slaves to whom we obey, whether sin unto death or obedience unto righteousness (Rom 6:16)."

A Christian has been set free from sin (Rom 6:7, 6:18). Obviously those who remain in the service of sin have not been set free for they are still a slave whom obeys sin.

It's what the Bible plainly teaches.

 

[homwardbound]

According to what you have written one who is saved can still be in rebellion. Thus a Christian remains a double-minded hypocrite in the service of two masters over which the blood serves as a cloak.

Isn't that correct?

Your doctrine is clearly making an allowance for ongoing rebellion to God.

Are you not taking Romans 7:17 where Paul personifies sin and then you are using that as a basis that one sins not of their own free will but by necessity of "indwelling sin"? Thus man is not really responsible for his rebellion to God, the fault lies with "indwelling sin."

When Paul writes he is trying to portray an image of truth from his mind to the reader. Due to this we have to compare scripture to scripture and not isolate select verses apart from their context. Paul is often explaining difficult to grasp concepts and due to this it is quite easy to twist his writings by focusing on select verses apart from their context in order to support a deception. Thus we need to be very careful.

Look at what Paul writes...

Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

In the above verse he personifies sin to illustrate a point, he is not literally teaching that sin is a substance (ie. it literally indwells). No because sin is a choice, sin is a moral issue not a physical issue. Jesus overcame sin in the flesh by the Spirit which is exactly what Paul is teaching here. Look at the next verse...

Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

The wretched man of Romans 7 is trying to overcome sin in the flesh apart from the Spirit of God. he wants to overcome sin but he is yet to understand the MEANS by which sin is actually overcome.

Paul wrote thus a few verses later...

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

It is the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus which sets one free from being the Romans wretch. Notice the wretch cries out for deliverance...

Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

There are two laws.

1. Sin unto death to which those who serve sin are enslaved unto.
2. Spirit of life in Jesus Christ (entered into via obedience to the truth).

It is law number 2 which sets one free from law number one. Hence...

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

There are two ways...

Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

1. Walking according to the flesh.
2. Walking according to the Spirit.

They are opposites. If one is in the flesh they cannot please God.

Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

It is very important to grasp this otherwise one can be very easily deceived into believing that the life of the redeemed Christian is the wretched life of Romans 7:14-25. The wretched man only has HEAD KNOWLEDGE of righteousness and USES LAW to try and force compliance with righteousness. It does not work because righteousness is found by abiding in the Spirit as opposed to following rules.

Note that Romans 7 is written to those who know the law (Rom 7:1). Paul teaches that we become dead to the law by the body of Christ (Rom 7:4). Not that the law has been thrown out the window, no, the righteousness of the law is upheld by us who abide in the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ (Rom 8:2-4) whereby we bring forth fruit unto God (Rom 7:4) the fruit of the Spirit (Gal 5:22-23).

Romans 7 is where Paul is illustrating the REASON WHY we need to abide in the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ. The law cannot save, only Jesus Christ can save, and He saves those who abide in Him.

We don't LEARN to not walk by the flesh because when we come to Christ we put off the flesh. It's a done deal. What we do learn is more and more about the mind of Christ, thus we grow in His grace and knowledge. It is not about walking in the flesh less and the Spirit more, no, it is about walking in the Spirit with more understanding and thus being able to make better decisions for our discernment is increased.

If one holds the view that a Christian is only "partially crucified" then one has opened the door to any doctrine which teaches "ye can sin and not surely die" for the blood of Christ, by necessity, must be treated as a cloak for ongoing iniquity resultant of only being "partially crucified."

Think about it.

Yuo Skinski are either saved or youare not only God knoweth and I do not promote sin, take it for granted, or abuse it. But no matter what Ido not keepmy salvation, by waht I might do or not do, I will be judged of God by waht my motive(s) are as allyou have toanswer the same, waht is your motive, and there will be loss as we all go through the fire that burns away wahtdross might be left andwe will suffeer loss and reward as God sees fit according to our works, Then a lass we ourselves go through the fire and either suffer loss of salvation or go in. I do not need to prove me to any one, And really do you either.
Does God just love you? Or is God a tyrant? Either one believes or they do not this simple, and those that believe do accordingly not shoutiing fromthe roof tops as in see my works, rather they would be sgoutkiing see God's works, taking no credit for themselves only for God I am who I am by the grace of God and do not seek to confuse this grace by adding works
Sometimes yuor posts allude to ones response as in responding trustin God then another says differantly
Please to put this to rest Did Christ come here in the flesh born of a virgin? Where you born after similitude of Adam and Eve with a sin nature? Are you born again and please how did this occur for you?