Out Of This World

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Guys Jesus is telling us that he brought heaven to earth for us to live in while we’re still here.
 
This guy was clearly human and it’s a shame for us because humans are stupid but no human wants to die on the cross specially after everyone told him to not do it and use his superpowers instead. So he just needed strength from the divine thankfully for also being a God. No one likes the human race guys we seriously stink. Father knows best.
 
posthuman said:
to look at the deity aspect closer:

  • "... those you have given me, for they are yours." - vs 9 (what? whose are they?)
    • given Christ = God this is easy. they are His. ((Psalm 89:11))
  • "All I have is yours, and all you have is mine." - vs 10 (say what?)
    • given Christ = God this is easy. they are His. everything is through Him and for Him ((Hebrews 2:10))
  • "... glory has come to me through them." - vs 10 (not from the Father?)
    • given Christ = God this is easy. all things are for Him, by Him, and to His glory. ((Romans 11:36))
  • "... protect them by the power of your name, the name you gave me..." - vs 11 (wait, whose name?)
    • given Christ = God this is easy. His name is One ((Zechariah 14:9))
  • "... so that they may be one as we are one." - vs 11 (say what?)
    • given Christ = God this is easy. and we also, have our life in Him ((Colossians 3:3))
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Yes, but what happens if I ask. ""How so?" after each of these items?
The, he's God so he can do anything, idea only carries us so far. Then what?
 
posthuman said:
i don't see that as solving so much as pushing it under the rug as though it's irrelevant & meaningless.
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I said, "... we are facing some challenging questions."
Even as idioms we have to contend with what they mean.
I'm just saying that they might not be intended to be taken literally.
 
Poinsetta said:
This guy was clearly human and it’s a shame for us because humans are stupid but no human wants to die on the cross specially after everyone told him to not do it and use his superpowers instead. So he just needed strength from the divine thankfully for also being a God. No one likes the human race guys we seriously stink. Father knows best.
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I don't believe that Jesus had "superpowers". (see bold above - emphasis mine)
I believe that he set his divinity aside, which was his true identity, of course. (I'm not denying his divinity)
The miracles he participated in were done in his humanity. He expectes us to do what he was doing.
And even greater things. We are to model what he did in coming along side what the Father was doing.

John 14:12
Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.

Matthew 10:8
Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy, drive out demons. Freely you have received; freely give.
 
Sketch said:
Yes, but what happens if I ask. ""How so?" after each of these items?
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then i'm led to search through scripture finding how this testifies of His person and His work; who He is and what He does: how all scripture testifies of Him. which we can do, but i'm trying not to write 1,000 words and wind up off the main topic - if we really would.

what happens if i ask, how is this poetic, what does it really mean, why is it poetic?
wouldn't i then be trying to use my own imagination, to come up with a way to make this mean what it doesn't actually say, or just chalking it off as 'poetic license' and not adding any knowledge of Him at all?
 
posthuman said:
i don't see that as solving so much as pushing it under the rug as though it's irrelevant & meaningless.

it's like you have a problem, find what x equals. so you create a new variable called y and define it such that y = x. then you say you're done; you've solved it: x = y.

but you don't know what y is. you've just given x a new name, and you haven't found the solution.

if that makes sense?
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Do you have a mathematic example of an idiomatic statement? lol
I think the mathematical view may only support literal statements.
Perhaps visualizing adding apples?

3 apples + 4 oranges + 2 pears = 1 fruit basket
 
Sketch said:
I said, "... we are facing some challenging questions."
Even as idioms we have to contend with what they mean.
I'm just saying that they might not be intended to be taken literally.
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that's fine, but if they're idioms we're not 'solved' - we're then at what do they mean, and why does He use an idiom, a particular idiom, instead of speaking plainly?

He started teaching in parables after a point, but that. to the masses, and to the pharisees and sadducees. to His disciples, He still spoke plainly - *sometimes* lol. it remains very complex :p
 
posthuman said:
then i'm led to search through scripture finding how this testifies of His person and His work; who He is and what He does: how all scripture testifies of Him. which we can do, but i'm trying not to write 1,000 words and wind up off the main topic - if we really would.

what happens if i ask, how is this poetic, what does it really mean, why is it poetic?
wouldn't i then be trying to use my own imagination, to come up with a way to make this mean what it doesn't actually say, or just chalking it off as 'poetic license' and not adding any knowledge of Him at all?
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Back to my, "You're killing me." example.
I'm not sidestepping the issue to understand that this is an element of speech, the use of an idiom to communicate.
Taking it literally doesn't get me closer to the truth, but farther away. Does that make sense?
 
posthuman said:
that's fine, but if they're idioms we're not 'solved' - we're then at what do they mean, and why does He use an idiom, a particular idiom, instead of speaking plainly?

He started teaching in parables after a point, but that. to the masses, and to the pharisees and sadducees. to His disciples, He still spoke plainly - *sometimes* lol. it remains very complex :p
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Here's an example.
Is this unclear due to the use of an idiom? (white unto harvest)

John 4:35 KJV
Say not ye, There are yet four months, and then cometh harvest? behold, I say unto you, Lift up your eyes, and look on the fields; for they are white already to harvest.
 
posthuman said:
… why does He use an idiom, a particular idiom, instead of speaking plainly?
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I think we talk differently to various individuals in our life.
We need to consider the fact that we are eavesdropping, as it were, on a conversation between Father and Son.

I would imagine that Jesus is talking to Father the way they always talk. I don't think there is any indication that he changed the way he was praying to accommodate the understanding of the audience. Some of the things Jesus said were unapologetically mysterious. Do you remember this one. Definitely NOT to be taken literally. In fact the literal understanding has led to doctrinal error. INHO

John 6:53
Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.

John 6:54
Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

John 6:56
Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them.
 
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