Patience and Faith.

[Gideon300]

Faith is a common topic on this forum and in much preaching. However, God's word has much to say about patience and perseverance. Patience could be described as the ability to remain calm in troubled times. Perseverance is the ability to press on when the way becomes difficult.

Lord Jesus said that in this world we will have tribulation. It's a part of the "new life package", you could say. We live in a fallen world and it is controlled by Satan, who hates believers and seeks to render us ineffectual.

Natural patience and perseverance soon run out. So God works in our lives, usually through our environment. Perhaps you have a job you hate. God tells you to stick it out. You can ignore God and quit. If you do, you will delay the work that God wants to perform in your heart. If you stay, perseverance will grow and so will you. (Romans 5:1-5, James 1:3 & 4).

Perseverance can be thought of like a soldier's characteristic. He must follow orders, often without understanding, march into battle as the enemy resists, with confidence in the officer who commands him. Patience is more like a farmer. He has worked hard to prepare the soil. He has sown seed. He prays for rain at the right times. Then he must wait. Who digs up the soil to see if the seed has sprouted?

Patience can be hard. Your child struggles with a task that you could do easily. If you take over, how will they learn?

"You need to persevere, so that after you have done the will of God, you will receive what He has promised." Hebrews 10:36

"And so Abraham, after waiting patiently, obtained the promise." Hebrews 6:15

The good news is that God includes patience in the fruit of the Spirit. He knows that we have little patience in ourselves. So He provides patience for us. We learn endurance when we refuse to quit when things get difficult. God's grace is always sufficient. If we depend on ourselves, we will fail. If we rely on Christ, victory is ours.


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[Deuteronomy]

Hello Gideon300, this is an interesting thread, so thank you from broaching it Here are a few of the thoughts that I had about it as I read through it.

Patience could be described as the ability to remain calm in troubled times. Perseverance is the ability to press on when the way becomes difficult.​

That's an interesting way of defining certain aspects of those two terms, and I agree that what you say is true about them (however, "patience", as you've described it here, seems to have a lot in common with another fruit of the Spirit, "self-control" which, interestingly, is something that I've never considered before, so thank you for pointing it out to us).

I also think of Biblical "patience" (or "longsuffering", along with kindness) as the principal/first and foremost means that both God and we use to express Godly love towards others, patience and kindness being at very top of the list of "ingredients" (if you will) in agape (this list tells us what Godly love is supposed to look like & include in practice .. Love is patient, love is kind...e.g. 1 Corinthians 13:4-8a).

Perseverance can be thought of like a soldier's characteristic. He must follow orders, often without understanding, march into battle as the enemy resists, with confidence in the officer who commands him.​

That reminds me a bit of a Christian quote/admonishment that I love and try to remember to act upon, because only good has come from doing so

"Be obedient, even when you do not know where obedience may lead you" ~Sinclair B. Ferguson ​

Patience can be hard. Your child struggles with a task that you could do easily. If you take over, how will they learn?​

"You need to persevere, so that after you have done the will of God you will receive what He has promised." Hebrews 10:36

"And so Abraham, after waiting patiently, obtained the promise." Hebrews 6:15​

It's interesting how the NIV changes the Greek verb in this case from a present, active, indicative (a description or statement of fact about us) into a present, active, imperative (a command to us) instead (e.g. ... "You need to/must persevere"/NIV, instead of "Ye have need of patience"/KJV, or "You have need of endurance"/NASB).

I wonder why the NIV translation team decided to do so

The good news is that God includes patience in the fruit of the Spirit. He knows that we have little patience in ourselves. So He provides patience for us. We learn endurance when we refuse to quit when things get difficult. God's grace is always sufficient. If we depend on ourselves, we will fail. If we rely on Christ, victory is ours.​

God bless you!!

~Deuteronomy
p.s. - another Christian quote that comes to mind in regard to some this (patience/perseverance) is this one,

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[GWH]

Hello Gideon300, this is an interesting thread, so thank you from broaching it Here are a few of the thoughts that I had about it as I read through it.


That's an interesting way of defining certain aspects of those two terms, and I agree that what you say is true about them (however, "patience", as you've described it here, seems to have a lot in common with another fruit of the Spirit, "self-control" which, interestingly, is something that I've never considered before, so thank you for pointing it out to us).

I also think of Biblical "patience" (or "longsuffering", along with kindness) as the principal/first and foremost means that both God and we use to express Godly love towards others, patience and kindness being at very top of the list of "ingredients" (if you will) in agape (this list tells us what Godly love is supposed to look like & include in practice .. Love is patient, love is kind...e.g. 1 Corinthians 13:4-8a).


That reminds me a bit of a Christian quote/admonishment that I love and try to remember to act upon, because only good has come from doing so

"Be obedient, even when you do not know where obedience may lead you" ~Sinclair B. Ferguson ​

It's interesting how the NIV changes the Greek verb in this case from a present, active, indicative (a description or statement of fact about us) into a present, active, imperative (a command to us) instead (e.g. ... "You need to/must persevere"/NIV, instead of "Ye have need of patience"/KJV, or "You have need of endurance"/NASB).

I wonder why the NIV translation team decided to do so




God bless you!!

~Deuteronomy
p.s. - another Christian quote that comes to mind in regard to some this (patience/perseverance) is this one,

View attachment 294157​

I agree with your comments, and I like the connection of patience with self-control.

Regarding Heb. 10:36, I think the context indicates the need for perseverance, and the KJV and NASB do not translate the Greek verb as indicative of fact either, except as the fact we need perseverance/to persevere, which is an implied command. Right?

 

[Gideon300]

Hello Gideon300, this is an interesting thread, so thank you from broaching it Here are a few of the thoughts that I had about it as I read through it.

It's interesting how the NIV changes the Greek verb in this case from a present, active, indicative (a description or statement of fact about us) into a present, active, imperative (a command to us) instead (e.g. ... "You need to/must persevere"/NIV, instead of "Ye have need of patience"/KJV, or "You have need of endurance"/NASB).

I wonder why the NIV translation team decided to do so




God bless you!!

~Deuteronomy
p.s. - another Christian quote that comes to mind in regard to some this (patience/perseverance) is this one,

​

Thank you for your comments. The NIV and some others are more inclined to add what they think a word means, rather than a precise translation. I stopped using it for that reason. It's perhaps helpful for new believers and those who have English as a second language. Even my preferred Berean version is imprecise:

"For you have need of perseverance, so that, having done the will of God, you may receive the promise." Hebrews 10:36 literal
"You need to persevere, so that after you have done the will of God, you will receive what He has promised." Translation

What bugs me is that the translation switches the emphasis. If I have a need, I will search myself and find that I do not have it in myself. If I'm wise, I will ask God to meet that need.

When the exhortation is "You need" to do something, it puts the pressure on me as if I was able to perform. I've learned that it is Lord Jesus alone who is my perseverance.​