Paul did not abiding in the Truth

[MarcoftheTruth]

‭‭John 8:31 NIV‬‬
[31] To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples.

‭‭2 John 1:9 NIV‬‬
[9] Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.

‭‭Hebrews 6:1 NIV‬‬
[1] Therefore let us move beyond the elementary teachings about Christ and be taken forward to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death, and of faith in God,

 

[MarcoftheTruth]

‭‭John 15:6 NIV‬‬
[6] If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.

 

[posthuman]

not understanding how the title of this thread relates to its content...???

 

[ChristFllwr]

not understanding how the title of this thread relates to its content...???

I agree with you. it needs some explanation.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Consider:

"Therefore having girded up the loins of your mind, being sober-minded, set [your] hope fully upon the grace being brought [PRESENT PARTICIPLE] to you in [the] revelation of Jesus Christ" - 1 Peter 1:13




--where Scripture uses the definite article ('the') with this phrase ("THE revelation of Jesus Christ"), it is referring to the eschatological revelation of Him ('future');



--where Scripture does NOT include the definite article ('the') with this phrase (as in the bolded portion above, 1Pet1:13), it is speaking of "in the here and now"... "the grace BEING BROUGHT [present participle] TO YOU IN REVELATION OF JESUS CHRIST" (in the here and now, when the writer penned this in the first century, following Christ's death / burial / resurrection / ascension / exaltation; This same writer [Peter], in 2Pet3, had this to say about Paul: "As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard-to-be-understood [(one word in the Greek) G1425 - dysnoētos ], which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.")








Welcome to CC... hope to see you around the boards.

 

[p_rehbein]

not understanding how the title of this thread relates to its content...???

Yeah, it is a wee bit confusing. Hope this isn't another Paul hater come to visit. The Apostle Paul preached the Gospel of Jesus and lived the Gospel of Jesus.

It seems to me (reading the OP) that they may be trying to say that Jesus told people that if they followed the Law of the Old Testament, they were truly His Disciples, and Paul taught that the New Covenant of Grace was for the Church, not the Law. But, I may misunderstand what the person was trying to say.

 

[Soyeong]

‭‭John 8:31 NIV‬‬
[31] To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples.

‭‭2 John 1:9 NIV‬‬
[9] Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.

‭‭Hebrews 6:1 NIV‬‬
[1] Therefore let us move beyond the elementary teachings about Christ and be taken forward to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death, and of faith in God,

For example, a student does not move on to algebra by disregarding the elementary teachings of addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division, but by building upon them. Paul was not speaking about regressing to the point where we are no longer even following the elementary teachings, but about moving forward to maturity, so he was not suggesting that we should not continue to hold to Christ's teachings.

 

[Nehemiah6]

‭‭John 8:31 NIV‬‬
[31] To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples.

KJB: Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
The meaning has changed.
****************************************
‭‭2 John 1:9 NIV‬‬
[9] Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.
KJB: Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
The meaning has changed. The "doctrine" of Christ is the entire truth about Christ (as revealed in the Bible), NOT the teaching of Christ. The Gnostics refused tp confess that Jesus Christ had come in the flesh (the God had taken human form as Jesus of Nazareth). See verse 7.
***************************************
‭‭Hebrews 6:1 NIV‬‬
[1] Therefore let us move beyond the elementary teachings about Christ and be taken forward to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death, and of faith in God.
KJB: Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
The meaning has changed again. And drastically.

As we can see, the NIV is a very misleading paraphrase. But what does all this have to do with Paul not abiding in the truth? NOT A THING.

 

[Melach]

For example, a student does not move on to algebra by disregarding the elementary teachings of addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division, but by building upon them. Paul was not speaking about regressing to the point where we are no longer even following the elementary teachings, but about moving forward to maturity, so he was not suggesting that we should not continue to hold to Christ's teachings.

this statement is so true. its like a new born baby, it takes a while before it can crawl, then walk, run, eat, do things by himself.

its like that for all of us. then we forget how it works and expect someone newly converted to know everything we do

 

[Evmur]

not understanding how the title of this thread relates to its content...???

He thinks Hebrews is a letter of Paul, which I don't and he thinks Paul is telling folks to stop believing the basic doctrines of salvation and move on to something more mature.

That is not what Hebrews is saying.

 

[posthuman]

He thinks Hebrews is a letter of Paul, which I don't and he thinks Paul is telling folks to stop believing the basic doctrines of salvation and move on to something more mature.

That is not what Hebrews is saying.

that's ridiculous. no matter who wrote Hebrews - and it's truly the Spirit of God Who is the Author - Hebrews is telling the reader to grow up and build on the basic doctrines, not to stop believing or practicing them!

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

If Jesus "is the only way" to be saved, how can you move on?
Anyone not saved "must still follow the same way to God" as those who are already saved.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

‭‭John 8:31 NIV‬‬
[31] To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples.

‭‭2 John 1:9 NIV‬‬
[9] Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.

‭‭Hebrews 6:1 NIV‬‬
[1] Therefore let us move beyond the elementary teachings about Christ and be taken forward to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death, and of faith in God,

Why is the title that Paul did not abide in truth ?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

He thinks Hebrews is a letter of Paul, which I don't and he thinks Paul is telling folks to stop believing the basic doctrines of salvation and move on to something more mature.

That is not what Hebrews is saying.

What is Hebrews saying ?

“For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭5:12-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. ( that’s all basic doctrine everyone should know and accept if they have ever heard the things Jesus said they would )

And this will we do, if God permit. For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: but that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.”
‭‭Hebrew‬ ‭6:1-8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

seems like a pretty clearly worded warning and exhortation it doesn’t really matter if it was Paul he wrote the same things in his epistles

He taught of baptism , repentance , faith towards God , resurrection of the dead and eternal judgement it doesn’t matter which apostle were reading they ere all teaching the same things that Jesus taught first

for instance paul taught repentance because of the eternal judgement to come

“But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds: to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:



but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

but glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: for there is no respect of persons with God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:5-11‬ ‭

about just because Paul taught it doesn’t mean people accept it especially those who claim to read Paul they just find a verse with the word grace in it and skip all the doctrine

 

[SunshineGirl]

Why is the title that Paul did not abide in truth ?

I am glad I am not the only one who don't understand 🤔
How did Paul not abide in the truth?

2 Timothy 3:16

New International Version



16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I am glad I am not the only one who don't understand 🤔
How did Paul not abide in the truth?

2 Timothy 3:16

New International Version



16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

Indeed he was walking right along with John Peter and the rest of em. He just wrote differently because he had a Roman education

 

[SunshineGirl]

Indeed he was walking right along with John Peter and the rest of em. He just wrote differently because he had a Roman education

When I started studying the Bible only a couple of year back I remember going to a study group and a lot of the people there didn't like Paul or his teaching. I just thought it was because of the live he lived before meeting Jesus 🤔

 

[Pilgrimshope]

When I started studying the Bible only a couple of year back I remember going to a study group and a lot of the people there didn't like Paul or his teaching. I just thought it was because of the live he lived before meeting Jesus 🤔

I think it’s because Paul’s writing style is so averse to all the other writers he was a Jewish Roman citizen by birth and was given all the best educations of the time where as the others were poor Jewish fishermen under Roman tier y and suppressed when it came to Roman educations of course the Hebrew people are educated but what I mean is the writing is a different style

Paul’s words are eloquent and beautiful he uses many examples and quotes much Old Testament prophecy as he is revealing its content . He sometimes stretches one single point out for two or three chapters really making it thoroughly clear using several examples

His writings for perfectly and require us to hear what Jesus said first in the gospel to really understand Paul’s terminology

For instance jesus began teaching this sort of abstract form of teaching where he is separating mans spirit and man’s flesh

“That which is born of the flesh is flesh;

and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“It is the spirit that quickeneth;

the flesh profiteth nothing:

the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:63‬ ‭KJV‬‬

So later Paul came along teaching those people who heard things like that in the gospel referring back to Jesus and his doctrine with the language Jesus established

“This I say then, Walk in the Spirit,

and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.



But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.


And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:16-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

sorry to confuse you lol I just am saying I think a lot of people don’t read and understand Paul they take single sentences out of his writings instead of reason what he’s teaching in his epistles in chapters listening to his words like he’s a teacher

paul is absolutely of God and agrees with Jesus on every point in his words he’s a servant of Jesus and the gospel witnessing it’s truth and power to the world

 

[SunshineGirl]

I think it’s because Paul’s writing style is so averse to all the other writers he was a Jewish Roman citizen by birth and was given all the best educations of the time where as the others were poor Jewish fishermen under Roman tier y and suppressed when it came to Roman educations of course the Hebrew people are educated but what I mean is the writing is a different style

Paul’s words are eloquent and beautiful he uses many examples and quotes much Old Testament prophecy as he is revealing its content . He sometimes stretches one single point out for two or three chapters really making it thoroughly clear using several examples

His writings for perfectly and require us to hear what Jesus said first in the gospel to really understand Paul’s terminology

For instance jesus began teaching this sort of abstract form of teaching where he is separating mans spirit and man’s flesh

“That which is born of the flesh is flesh;

and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“It is the spirit that quickeneth;

the flesh profiteth nothing:

the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:63‬ ‭KJV‬‬

So later Paul came along teaching those people who heard things like that in the gospel referring back to Jesus and his doctrine with the language Jesus established

“This I say then, Walk in the Spirit,

and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.



But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.


And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:16-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

sorry to confuse you lol I just am saying I think a lot of people don’t read and understand Paul they take single sentences out of his writings instead of reason what he’s teaching in his epistles in chapters listening to his words like he’s a teacher

paul is absolutely of God and agrees with Jesus on every point in his words he’s a servant of Jesus and the gospel witnessing it’s truth and power to the world

Thanks for your help 😊
I love reading Paul's letters and i seems to understand them much better then a lot of the Old Testament.
I think it's amazing how Jesus changed Saul to Paul completely different person 😱 from going from hating Jesus and everyone who follows him to loving Jesus and being one who follows. I can see why some people were not sure of Paul at first though.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Thanks for your help 😊
I love reading Paul's letters and i seems to understand them much better then a lot of the Old Testament.
I think it's amazing how Jesus changed Saul to Paul completely different person 😱 from going from hating Jesus and everyone who follows him to loving Jesus and being one who follows. I can see why some people were not sure of Paul at first though.

Amen a perfect example of a sinner converted by Jesus to A man after his own heart