Paul exposes false application of the law

[seed_time_harvest]

Don’t be confused or concerned my dear.. just as you will find the I’m in your post is a way of sharing my Beliefs.. the iam appears.. let me help you:


Romans 8


9But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

12Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. 13For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. 14For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. 15For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. 16The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: 17And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.


verse 16.... The Spirit itself bears witness with our spirit...

I know you mean well but the way you are saying It Is GOD did the work and you are helping.

 

[BillG]

I've been gone so I don't know if you responded to the answer and question I asked you. I would like to know where you got the teaching that the Pharisees were trying to obey God. It is really important to clear this up as there are many who falsely preach that the Pharisees were trying to get to heaven by following God's Laws. This is a huge lie and has been the foundation of many deceptive doctrines in Mainstream preaching.

I was hoping you would answer the question regarding your statement; "Where did Jesus say the Pharisees were trying to obey God?" It would help me understand why you would make such a claim as you did. "I thought the Jews were trying to obey God’s commands."

Evening

Firstly I would like to say that I am not going to get into an argument concerning this.
For me it’s not a hill to die on. Jesus did that for me.

Secondly the fact that I beleive that the Jews were trying to obey God, I do not feel such thoughts and understanding negates my salvation and that I have been deceived as such to the extent of losing my salvation.

If that is something you wish push then I will not engage in it.

Also I do not think that the Pharisees were trying to get to heaven by following Gods laws as such.
To me those subject to God’s laws, the Jews were doing so because God told them to do so.
These were the precedents that he set that they obeyed they would be blessed and if not they would not be blessed.

Also note that I said Jews and not Pharisees. Post #193 you quoted above.

Your last sentence I responded to was

”At any rate it is false to preach that the Jews or the Pharisees were trying to obey God’s commandments at least according to Jesus”

So as you can see I made a distinction between the Jews and the Pharisees which you have above by asking me.
I said Jews

”I would like to know where you got the teaching that the PHARISESS were trying to obey God”

So where would you like to go with this now?

 

[stonesoffire]

Does your post fit with the new thread started of false brethren Bill? To me it does.

 

[BillG]

Does your post fit with the new thread started of false brethren Bill? To me it does.

ooh, I don’t know.

Does it?

 

[BillG]

Thank you for the kind words LM1. Most of the time I read your posts your words are seasoned with the grace that God gives to those that LOVE him, because they love him who first loved us. Love is the fruit that we should all seek from Him who first loved us. It is only found in His Word by faith and that is where we should point all to find him who loves so that we can love him and follow him because God is LOVE.

God bless you sis LM1

Hi LGF,

I hope all is well with you.

You probably saw my post some back where I posted my understanding of the errancy of the SDA doctine On Sabbath keeeping.

Just so you know that this was not me attacking you as a person.

I have looked at your responses above starting with post #267.

Hello All,

I have not spent much time in this thread due to being busy with work, family and posting in other areas. I did make another thread to discuss the topic of God's Law and the Sabbath in another thread but I guess some have not been able to give a reason for the hope that is in them there so they come here where I am not able to answer back.

I must say it is a little disappointing to see certain people here attacking others that are not here to defend themselves. I am not singling out MMD as I see there are others involved as well.

I haven’t read your thread you started and not sure how many here have done so either.
You have obviously been busy with other stuff and have not spent much time in this thread, but I would say that most would not have known or thought about that and are not making it an excuse to attack you as a person.
I would say outright that no one has a right to attack a person full stop.
So maybe the responses that have disheartened you could actually be disagreeing with your belief concerning sabbath keeping
and the consequences of not agreeing with them. So with that in view I would just like to look at what you posted below.

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

Seems God's Word is true; Every argument sounds good until the other side is heard.....

It seems to me that your focus here is on the Sabbath.

You seem to link the verses in James as knowingly sinning and if we don’t seek repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the judgment. Then your next paragraph focuses on Sunday worship as a tradition of man and therfore If we Sabbath on Sunday we break the commandments of God, you say Commandments Which is plural but seem to focus on one.

So I have to be honest and hopefully you can answer this for me with your exact thoughts.

I worship on a Sunday.
Becuase I do so then am I subject to the verses quoted in James and Hebrews?
Is my slavation in question?

Jesus himself did stuff on the Sabbath that he was rebuked for by the Pharisees yet he rebuked them for not understanding what the Sabbath was truly about.

So if the Sabbath is meant to be observed on a Saturday how to you must it be observed?

If one agrees with your thoughts on how it should be observed why not on any day that ends with a Y?

I am not trying to trip you up here.
Thats not my style.

Just chewing the cud as we say over here.

Bill

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I disagree with your premise here. The Mainstream Preachers of that time were the Jews who Jesus said were "Transgressing the Commandments of God by their own traditions, they were "Teaching for doctrines the commandments of men". We know they had corrupted God's Sabbath, they were preaching man made traditions and doctrines.

There were Jews who understood the truth, just not "many".

Luke 1:5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.6And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

So here are two examples of religious Jews here.

One example taught for doctrines the Commandments of men.

Another example followed the instructions of God without their own doctrines and traditions.

These who Paul warned of were not trying to teach God's Law, they were furthering man made doctrines and traditions, "fables and endless genealogies". As Jesus instructed us, they were "preaching for doctrine the commandments of men".

Had they just taught what God instructed and not added their own righteousness, they would not have been rejected.

I am not sure what you mean here. I just posted what Paul said to Timothy, It had nothing to do with what mainstream anyone did. It had to do with some false teachers who Paul said wanted to be teachers of the law. But did not understand ther law. Yet were tryinto teach the law. And instead of causing Godly edification, caused instead fruitless discussion. Because they not only did not understand what they were trying to teach, but they also did not understand the things they affirm. (Believed to be true)

Paul is the one who made the argument, not me, so you disagree with paul. And do not understand my premise. i can only pray unlike another member, you realise you misread me and we can actualllyt discuss this.

They didn't take the law out of context, they created their own law. Their own doctrines based on their own traditions. This is important to understand.

Please stop assuming, Paul is not talking about pharisees or Jewish leaders who imposed their version of the law. but about false teachers who infiltrated the church in Ephesus.

He said they had no understanding of it. Those are his words not mine, When you do not understand something, you take it out of context. Because you have a wrong view of what it is really for.

The law is good if you use it lawfully. What do we use God's Law for? To show us sin, Yes?

Funny how I said that very thing, so you agree with me correct?

1 Tim. 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient,

What does the Law do for the lawless and disobedient? Does it show us we need to change, repent? Does it, like a mirror, show us who we are? So what good is the law if we don't obey it (Use it lawfully)

Shows us? Are you lawless and disobedient. The lawless and disobedient are those who are on the outside looking in, who have not yet been saved, Not the believers in christ, who have been justified and made righteous.

Why do you need to be shown your sin? Have you yet to repent yet? If your have repented. Then you know what sin is, if you still neede to be shown, you have serious issues.

Paul tells of the same thing in;

Rom. 2:17 Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God,
18 And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law;
19 And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness,
20 An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law.
21 Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal?
22 Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege?
23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?
24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.

In other words, how is breaking God's Law using it lawfully? Desiring to be teachers of the Bible, the gospel, the law and prophets, it's all the same. How can you use the Gospel by disobeying it? How can you preach to obey Jesus while living in disobedience to Jesus.

Who said anything about teaching it is ok to sin.Paul is showing the hypocrisy of many people who yell follow these rules ands regulation. When they too do not follow the commands. How can you throw a stone unless you have no sin.

It is just like preachers today. They desire to be teachers of the Bible, of the Gospel, yet they reject it's Words. They claim Jesus as their instructor, but reject His instruction.

They preach to keep the first and greatest commandment while promoting an image of God they created in the likeness of some handsome long haired Levi Jean model.

"thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege?"

They preach to love thy neighbor, yet they preach to them man made doctrines and traditions, a direct rebellion and disobedience to what Jesus taught, and certain rejection from the Kingdom of God. So they preach to love the brethren, but they deceive them in following a path that the Bible teaches leads to destruction.

One could say the same about people who take a false concept of the law. In trying to tell people unless they follow thge law. They are not true believers. While at the same time ignoring the fact that the law requires perfect obedience, which only one man has ever kept. And that man went to the cross. On our behalf.

That is Paul’s intent. People are taking the law out of context. And trying to force it where it does not belong.

Paul did not say a man made version of the law. He said THE LAW. So please do not try to change Paul’s words. If he meant the man made law he would have said such. He did not.. So please do not assume.

How is a man righteous before God? By living in direct rebellion to God's Commandments? No, that makes him disobedient and in need of God's Laws for correction.

I never said otherwise, So please do not assume things,,

What makes a ,man righteous before God is the blood of Christ, the law showed you this, if you can not understand how the innocent lamb led to slaughter on the day of atonement was required for atonement of sin and making people righteous. Then I would recommend you go back and satisfy the law again.

You omitted some important Biblical facts that shed a more truthful understanding on what Paul is preaching here.

Phil. 3:5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;

Did the Pharisees believe in Jesus? No, they were still promoting the Levitical Priesthood ceremonial, sacrificial "works of the Law" for remission of sins as did Paul when he was one. The Pharisees taught there was no righteousness without the ceremonial. sacrificial "works of the Law" for justification of sins. When Paul sinned, he bought a turtle dove, gave it to the Levites, and his sin was cleansed. That was his righteousness from the law.

9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

But now he believes in Jesus and His atoning blood, not in the "Works of the Law" prescribed by Moses "Till the Seed should come". You should know this desiring to be a teacher of the Bible.

Again. You assumed something which is not true. I did not leave this out. This says exactly what I said.

That our righteousness is not found but obeying the law. PERIOD. Do you disagreee with paul


This is a long post so I will split it up for the sake of making it easier to follow.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This is a very deceiving statement. Jesus said, before He became a man, that there will come a time when He will write His laws on our hearts. Why? So we can disobey them?

Not sure again what your quipping at, I never said otherwise. Please learn to read and discern what you are responding to.

The fact, what I said is true, A person can be following the law. And be above average at following the law. In fact, if we looked it there life we may not even show how he ever broke the law. And yet thast person can not be saved at all

Being obedient is not what saves us, Faith in christ is what washes us and makes us clean.

The Bible teaches almost the exact opposite of what you say here.

1 John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

I know you are only preaching Mainstream doctrine and you mean well. But Jesus warned us to "Take Heed" that those who come in His name don't deceive us. Are you preaching that satan will deceive us into obeying God's Instruction.

Do you do that to everyone you come to.

I never said otherwise.

Whgoever is saved by faith WILL be obedient, Please show me where I ever said otherwise.

And be careful, if your going to start slandering, you saw what happens.. Back your claims, do not just make judgments.. And maybe we can have a fruitful conversation.

You say "
so just because someone may be obeying the law and doing what the law says, does not mean they are righteous."

But Paul says; Rom. 8: "6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Name one single time in the Bible where a person who is said to be obeying God was not considered righteous.

You can't EG, this is just more furthering of Mainstream doctrines and commandments of man.

Name one single time where EG said a person can be saved and live in sin?

I will be wating

as for the law making one righteous. You already saw the verses.. What did moses demand, and paul affirm was require4d to be considered righteous by the law. Can you explain this to me?

Jesus cleansed my past sin on the cross. All sin past sin. If I slip us I repent and have faith that Jesus will forgive me. That is different than completely rejecting His Words and "Transgressing God's Commandments by my own righteousness, or doctrines and traditions.

ALL your sins were future tense when Jesus died on the cross. he either died for all of them, or he died for non of them.

And if that is the case, your lost with. No hope. No amount of repenting, confession, or working will save you, period.

When has there ever been a time apart from God's Laws? You see EG, you don't have any idea what you are preaching, just as Paul warned Timothy about. In all due respect, you still refuse to accept the "ADDED" Levitical Priesthood in any of your preaching. Abraham was justified "apart from the laws of justification which was "ADDED" until the seed should come. (Gal. 3:19)

Abraham was justified by faith. IOt is you who do not understand what you are teaching.

Who was Paul preaching about in Romans 3?

Rom. 3:1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.
3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?

And what law did the Jew center their whole religion on? The 10 Commandments? The Sabbath? No!! The Levitical Priesthood "works of the Law" for remission of sins.

Rom. 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works?

What was the law of works the Jews had their faith in EG? Paul is explaining to the Gentiles the reason why we don't kill goats for the remission of sins even though it was part of God's Law.


Nay: but by the law of faith. There is still a law EG.Abraham was blessed because he obeyed this law. (Gen. 26:5) Not the Levitical Priesthood "Works of the Law" for remission of past sins, but the good, perfect, holy, just laws of God. He had faith in that God and showed this faith by his works, and his faith saved him.
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith(obedience to God) without the deeds of the law.(blood of goats and ceremonial "works" performed by Levite Priests)



Our past sins are freely forgiven, IF we turn to God, repent and bring forth works worthy of repentance. That is what Jesus and Paul taught.

Acts 26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should (ALL) repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.



A true "Christian" would know as long as we are in this body, as long as this world exists, we have sin in us. God told us from the very beginning to "Rule over it". And with His help, His instruction, we can despite all the preaching from those who come in Christ's name to the contrary. And as Jesus said, He that endures to the end SHALL be saved.

I wanted to honor your post with a thorough response. I know you can't accept what I have written, but I didn't want to just blow your OP off. Since I believe the very foundation of your belief is built on old man made doctrines and traditions we have been taught for years, there is no sense in addressing any more of this OP. It is my hope you might actually consider some of what is written herein.

lol. Everyone is justified by faith. As Hebrew states, without the shedding of blood their is no forgiveness. That goes for Adam, Noah Abraham, Moses, All the prophets. All the apostles. Everyone including you and me.

If jesus di dnot die for your sin, you are dead in your sin, You can not work to earn salvation.

As pauyl said, It is NOT BY WORKS of RIGHTEOUSNESS whicvh WE HAVE DONE, but by GODS MERCY, he SAVED US BY THE WASHING AND NEW BIRTH of the HOLY SPIRIT.

That goes for everyone.

Good luck fulfilling the requirements of the law to save yourself. Oh and by the way, Again I ask, can you show what God demanded through moses, and paul confirmed heads to be done to be justified by mosaic law (not the man made version you keep talking about. But the actual law written in the OT. Its there, can you find it?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

=eternally-gratefull;3346501]

Only God knows what is right. When we have faith in Him and trust and obey Him, then we also "KNOW" what is right. It is when we reject the instruction of the Father and create our own definition of right that we get in trouble.

so a baby christian knows what is right, he or she does not have to learn anymore? Thats good to know.

Yes, I know this is what the catholic church and her daughters all preach. But the Bible preaches differently.

Abel turned to God and was accepted. Noah turned to God and was accepted. Abraham turned to God and was accepted.

Gen. 26:4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

So yes, Jesus never needed to repent because He didn't transgress God's Law in the first place so He qualified to forgive Abraham who was "Faithful to God". But He didn't forgive Sodom, or those who called Him Lord, Lord in Matt. 7.

what?

Abraham did not obey thge law perfectly, Noah did not obey it perfectly, No one did but Christ, as Jesus himself said, why do you call me good. No one is GOOD BUT GOD..

The reason they turned is because they KNEW THEY SINNED.

So I was right in what I said, thank you.

Love and Faith and Mercy are part of the Laws of God the Mainstream Preachers of Christ's time rejected.

Matt. 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Your preaching that love, mercy and Faith are somehow "apart from the law" is another deception. I think you mean well, but your refusal to understand the difference between the "ADDED" Law, the Levitical Priesthood "Works of the Law" for remission of sins and God's 10 Commandments and His Law to have faith Love and mercy is clouding your vision.

It is my sincere hope you will at least consider my post.

I never said they were apart from the law. I said they are how we fulfill the law.

Nice try, but as with most of what you have said, you do not have any idea what I said, what I mean or what I believe.

This seems to be becoming a habit the fact that people assume things without asking.

 

[Studyman]

Evening

Firstly I would like to say that I am not going to get into an argument concerning this.
For me it’s not a hill to die on. Jesus did that for me.

Secondly the fact that I beleive that the Jews were trying to obey God, I do not feel such thoughts and understanding negates my salvation and that I have been deceived as such to the extent of losing my salvation.

If that is something you wish push then I will not engage in it.

Also I do not think that the Pharisees were trying to get to heaven by following Gods laws as such.
To me those subject to God’s laws, the Jews were doing so because God told them to do so.
These were the precedents that he set that they obeyed they would be blessed and if not they would not be blessed.

Also note that I said Jews and not Pharisees. Post #193 you quoted above.

Your last sentence I responded to was

”At any rate it is false to preach that the Jews or the Pharisees were trying to obey God’s commandments at least according to Jesus”

So as you can see I made a distinction between the Jews and the Pharisees which you have above by asking me.
I said Jews

”I would like to know where you got the teaching that the PHARISESS were trying to obey God”

So where would you like to go with this now?

My reason for me being on this site to begin with is to warn brethren about false preaching in Mainstream Christianity. Jesus warned to take heed regarding preachers who come in His name and to this end I responded to your reply to a post I made.

One false preaching that is taught almost universally in "Christianity" today is that Jesus rejected the Mainstream God of Abraham preaching people of His time,(Pharisees) and those who chose their teaching over the Word of God,(Jews) because they were trying to please God, serve God, get to heaven, by obeying God.

AS I have shown, the Bible exposes this as a false preaching. The Pharisees and the Jews had created their own doctrines and traditions and had rejected God's Word. This is a Biblical fact that can not be refuted by scripture, I see you didn't even try, so you must know this as well.

You never made a distinction between the Jews or their teachers, the Pharisees. I thought it was because you knew there was no difference between the blind teachers and the blind followers, as they both shall fall in the pit as Jesus said.

I stand corrected.

Secondly the fact that I beleive that the Jews were trying to obey God, I do not feel such thoughts and understanding negates my salvation and that I have been deceived as such to the extent of losing my salvation.

Of course you don't. You seem to believe in EG's preaching that God's Laws are not for a "Christian". I am inclined to believe Jesus over this Mainstream preaching because, 1. Jesus warned us to "Take Heed" we are not deceived. 2. If it wasn't important to understand the truth then Jesus wouldn't have warned about believing a lie.

Also, if you acknowledge this deception God has exposed to you through me, you would also have to consider how the Holy Spirit, which Jesus calls "the Spirit of Truth", could lead todays Mainstream Preachers to teach a lie about Him since they all claim to have it. Then you might also have to consider how you, who have claimed this same Spirit for yourself, could be convinced to believe this same lie.

And you might consider this false preaching as no big deal as your post suggests. But building a doctrine on this lie is a big deal.

Since you don't understand the truth that it wasn't their efforts to obey God that cost them their salvation, but their transgression of God's Laws by their own traditions that cost them their salvation, you are easily deceived into believing you are free to create your own god, (image of God in likeness of man) your own laws, your own High Days and "Feasts unto the Lord", your own righteousness, your own Sabbaths, or follow the preachers who have done so.

Since you refuse to accept that those who do such things are rejected by Jesus, you have no compunction against doing the very same things they did. Paul warns about it.

2 Thess. 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Jesus also warns of this very same thing in;

Matt. 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. (Transgress the Commandments of God by their own doctrines and traditions)

So like you, I don't want to argue. You made the statement "I thought the Jews were trying to obey God's commands". As a brother and in Godly Love, I showed you where Jesus and His disciples explained where this belief is false according to God's Word.

You can either accept this Biblical reality, or you can continue with your "I Thought". I have no control over any of that.

So where would you like to go with this now?

There is nowhere else to go. You said "I thought the Jews were trying to obey God’s commands." I let God/Jesus Word explain they were not. I have loved you with God's Love, there is nothing more I can do.

 

[Studyman]

so a baby christian knows what is right, he or she does not have to learn anymore? Thats good to know.




what?

Abraham did not obey thge law perfectly, Noah did not obey it perfectly, No one did but Christ, as Jesus himself said, why do you call me good. No one is GOOD BUT GOD..

The reason they turned is because they KNEW THEY SINNED.

So I was right in what I said, thank you.




I never said they were apart from the law. I said they are how we fulfill the law.

Nice try, but as with most of what you have said, you do not have any idea what I said, what I mean or what I believe.

This seems to be becoming a habit the fact that people assume things without asking.

Thank you for your thoughtful reply EG.

 

[BillG]

My reason for me being on this site to begin with is to warn brethren about false preaching in Mainstream Christianity. Jesus warned to take heed regarding preachers who come in His name and to this end I responded to your reply to a post I made.

One false preaching that is taught almost universally in "Christianity" today is that Jesus rejected the Mainstream God of Abraham preaching people of His time,(Pharisees) and those who chose their teaching over the Word of God,(Jews) because they were trying to please God, serve God, get to heaven, by obeying God.

AS I have shown, the Bible exposes this as a false preaching. The Pharisees and the Jews had created their own doctrines and traditions and had rejected God's Word. This is a Biblical fact that can not be refuted by scripture, I see you didn't even try, so you must know this as well.

You never made a distinction between the Jews or their teachers, the Pharisees. I thought it was because you knew there was no difference between the blind teachers and the blind followers, as they both shall fall in the pit as Jesus said.

I stand corrected.



Of course you don't. You seem to believe in EG's preaching that God's Laws are not for a "Christian". I am inclined to believe Jesus over this Mainstream preaching because, 1. Jesus warned us to "Take Heed" we are not deceived. 2. If it wasn't important to understand the truth then Jesus wouldn't have warned about believing a lie.

Also, if you acknowledge this deception God has exposed to you through me, you would also have to consider how the Holy Spirit, which Jesus calls "the Spirit of Truth", could lead todays Mainstream Preachers to teach a lie about Him since they all claim to have it. Then you might also have to consider how you, who have claimed this same Spirit for yourself, could be convinced to believe this same lie.

And you might consider this false preaching as no big deal as your post suggests. But building a doctrine on this lie is a big deal.

Since you don't understand the truth that it wasn't their efforts to obey God that cost them their salvation, but their transgression of God's Laws by their own traditions that cost them their salvation, you are easily deceived into believing you are free to create your own god, (image of God in likeness of man) your own laws, your own High Days and "Feasts unto the Lord", your own righteousness, your own Sabbaths, or follow the preachers who have done so.

Since you refuse to accept that those who do such things are rejected by Jesus, you have no compunction against doing the very same things they did. Paul warns about it.

2 Thess. 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Jesus also warns of this very same thing in;

Matt. 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. (Transgress the Commandments of God by their own doctrines and traditions)

So like you, I don't want to argue. You made the statement "I thought the Jews were trying to obey God's commands". As a brother and in Godly Love, I showed you where Jesus and His disciples explained where this belief is false according to God's Word.

You can either accept this Biblical reality, or you can continue with your "I Thought". I have no control over any of that.



There is nowhere else to go. You said "I thought the Jews were trying to obey God’s commands." I let God/Jesus Word explain they were not. I have loved you with God's Love, there is nothing more I can do.

Same here.

Just so you know I love God, placed my faith in Jesus and want to be like him.
That is my desire to be holy and set apart.

All I have got from your post above is that is not my desire and therfore judge me.

I didn’t judge you but gave my thoughts and you have intimated that I have been deceived.

Mind you I saw it coming.

Anyway God bless you Studyman

ps the laws of God are for believers because they are written on our hearts.

 

[Studyman]

=eternally-gratefull;3346920]

Not sure again what your quipping at, I never said otherwise. Please learn to read and discern what you are responding to.

The fact, what I said is true, A person can be following the law. And be above average at following the law. In fact, if we looked it there life we may not even show how he ever broke the law. And yet thast person can not be saved at all

Being obedient is not what saves us, Faith in christ is what washes us and makes us clean.

Is it not against God to create our own "Feasts unto the Lord"? Is it not against God to create images of Him in the likeness of some long haired man? Is it against God to transgress His Commandments by our religious, man made doctrines and tradition?

Just because I question your preaching doesn't mean I am slandering you EG. We are told to "Take Heed" we are told to "Test the Spirits". We are told satan disguises itself as "Christians" and works to deceive, in fact Jesus said it does deceive many. My reason on this thread is to expose what I see as false preaching. If you disagree, fine.

Everyone who is truly justified is justified by Faith. We are to have the "Faith of Abraham". Since Jesus warned so many times about deceivers who come in His name, I prefer to go to God to learn what the "Faith of Abraham" is.

Gen. 26:4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Since I find absolutely zero evidence in the Word that satan works to deceive folks into obeying God, I must than believe that satan works to deceive people in disobeying God as the many examples show. If that stings you then you should look within yourself, not at the Word.

I know we will not see the scriptures in the same Light EG. You asked for commentary and I gave what I have been shown by study outside Mainstream religious franchise influence.

I can do no more.

 

[Studyman]

Same here.

Just so you know I love God, placed my faith in Jesus and want to be like him.
That is my desire to be holy and set apart.

All I have got from your post above is that is not my desire and therfore judge me.

I didn’t judge you but gave my thoughts and you have intimated that I have been deceived.

Mind you I saw it coming.

Anyway God bless you Studyman

ps the laws of God are for believers because they are written on our hearts.

Yet you believe a lie about Jesus, and when exposed you accuse me of judging you. How can Jesus write a lie on your heart?

Am I your enemy because I expose a deception that has taken hold of your mind? It wasn't meant that way at all.

Sorry you feel that way.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

=eternally-gratefull;3346920]

Is it not against God to create our own "Feasts unto the Lord"? Is it not against God to create images of Him in the likeness of some long haired man? Is it against God to transgress His Commandments by our religious, man made doctrines and tradition?

Just because I question your preaching doesn't mean I am slandering you EG. We are told to "Take Heed" we are told to "Test the Spirits". We are told satan disguises itself as "Christians" and works to deceive, in fact Jesus said it does deceive many. My reason on this thread is to expose what I see as false preaching. If you disagree, fine.

If you say EG believes something, and after being corrected. You keep saying, it is called slander.

You can question my teaching all you want, just do not tell me I teach what I do not.

Everyone who is truly justified is justified by Faith. We are to have the "Faith of Abraham". Since Jesus warned so many times about deceivers who come in His name, I prefer to go to God to learn what the "Faith of Abraham" is.

Gen. 26:4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Since I find absolutely zero evidence in the Word that satan works to deceive folks into obeying God, I must than believe that satan works to deceive people in disobeying God as the many examples show. If that stings you then you should look within yourself, not at the Word.

I know we will not see the scriptures in the same Light EG. You asked for commentary and I gave what I have been shown by study outside Mainstream religious franchise influence.

I can do no more.

and if you read my posts. You would know I teach.

1. Those who have true faith are obedient, those who do not have true faith are disobedient

2. Those who have true faith work. Those who do not may be decievers, (Religious workers of law) or are disobedient.

3. The children of God obey Gods commands, the non children of God may obey rules and regulations, but they do not obey God (there is non righteous no not one)


All I ask is that people do not assume what people believer, if you have a question ask them.

Now if I was saying 0ver and over being obedient does not matter, we can live however we want, that is a different story,, You would be free to say I believe one can be saved and live in sin (contrary to what the Bible says) and you would have judged me correctly

But I have never said such.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yet you believe a lie about Jesus, and when exposed you accuse me of judging you. How can Jesus write a lie on your heart?

Am I your enemy because I expose a deception that has taken hold of your mind? It wasn't meant that way at all.

Sorry you feel that way.

what would that lie be? Can you be more precise? This is just accusing with no facts.. Not saying your wrong, just asking for more information.

 

[LoveGodForever]

Hi Bill,

Nice to chat with you again. Some comments below.

Hi LGF,

I hope all is well with you.

You probably saw my post some back where I posted my understanding of the errancy of the SDA doctine On Sabbath keeeping. Just so you know that this was not me attacking you as a person. I have looked at your responses above starting with post #267.

No all good Bill. I read your post and was not offended by it at all. It is always a pleasure talking to you as we can always share God's Word in love and respect and I have always appreciated many of your posts in the past.

I haven’t read your thread you started and not sure how many here have done so either

I hope you can read it as it is always great to share God's Word. I think the scriptures shared in the other thread was the cause or upsetting some that were posting here. Here is the link here for ease of access.

It seems to me that your focus here is on the Sabbath. You seem to link the verses in James as knowingly sinning and if we don’t seek repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the judgment. Then your next paragraph focuses on Sunday worship as a tradition of man and therfore If we Sabbath on Sunday we break the commandments of God, you say Commandments Which is plural but seem to focus on one.

The focus from the main thread is God's Law (10 commandments) their role in the OLD and NEW Covenants as well as the Mosaic laws for the remission of SIN in both the OLD and the NEW Covenant. God's Law obviously includes the 4th commandment which is one of God's ten (Exodus 20:8-11).

The scriptures are very clear that the purpose of God's Law is to give mankind a knowledge of Good and EVIL. God's Law is the standard of SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS and if we break ANY ONE of them we commit SIN and stand guilty before God in SIN and in danger of the judgement and the penalty of SIN which is death (James 2:11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Romans 3:20; Romans 3:19; Romans 6:23; Psalms 1:5; Psalms 9:8; Psalms 119:172; Matthew 5:21; 10:15; Matthew 12:36; 2 Corinthians 5:10; Hebrews 10:26-27)

So I have to be honest and hopefully you can answer this for me with your exact thoughts. I worship on a Sunday. Because I do so then am I subject to the verses quoted in James and Hebrews? Is my slavation in question?

That is a great good question Bill. The focus of the discussion in God's Word is over SIN. God's Word clearly tells as that anyone professing to be a Christian or not who is living a life of KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN is NOT in a SAVED state before God and is in danger of the judgments of God and the wages of SIN because they have not BELIEVED God's Word and have rejected the GIFT of God's dear son. (Hebrews 10:26-27; Hebrews 6:4-8; Romans 6:23)

So is someone living a life of known UNREPENTANT SIN in s saved state before God or an UNSAVED state before God?

Hebrews 10
26, FOR IF WE SIN WILLFULLY AFTER THAT WE HAVE RECEIVED A KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH, THERE REMAINS NO MORE SACRIFICE FOR SIN, 27, BUT A FEARFUL LOOKING FOR OF JUDGEMENT AND FIERY INDIGNATION, WHICH SHALL DEVOUR THE ADVERSARIES.

The answer to your question is; IT DEPENDS.

God's Word also says......................

Acts 17
30, IN TIMES OF THIS IGNORANCE GOD WINKED AT; BUT NOW <when a knowledge of the truth comes> COMMANDS ALL MEN EVERYWHERE TO REPENT.
31, Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

and again.....................

James 4
17, Therefore TO HIM THAT KNOWS TO DO GOOD, AND DOES IT NOT, TO HIM IT IS SIN.

We are not held accountable in God's eyes until we have received a KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH. If we are living up to ALL the light (truth) God has given us we are only held accountable to what we know and not what we do not know. However if you have the opportunity to know God's Word and do not do it you are in UNBELIEF and your UNBELIEF is SIN in God's eyes and UNREPENTANT SIN will keep anyone practicing it OUT of God's Kingdom as highlighted in the scriptures above.

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten and if we break it just like any of the other ten commandments we stand guilty before God of SIN and in danger of God's judgment.

When God shows us through His Word a knowledge of His truth we should be thankful to God and by Faith believe and Follow Him in faith because he is calling us to have a closer walk with Him in LOVE.

Jesus himself did stuff on the Sabbath that he was rebuked for by the Pharisees yet he rebuked them for not understanding what the Sabbath was truly about.

Jesus never broke the Sabbath otherwise he would not be our perfect sacrifice. The problem was that the religious teachers of the day put so many restrictions through man made teaching on the keeping of the Sabbath that it had become a burden to the people and nearly impossible to keep ( Luke 13:14; John 5:10-18; 9:16; etc).

Jesus taught us that this was not the purpose of the Sabbath. (1) He taught us that the Sabbath was made for mankind and that mankind was not created for the Sabbath ( Mark 2:27 ). Jesus came to teach us that (2) He is the Lord of the Sabbath and that this is the Lord's Day ( Mark 2:28 ) Jesus came to (3) teach us that it is ok to enjoy the Sabbath and to do good on the Sabbath ( Matt 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-2 3; 9:14 ) (4) Jesus taught and fellow shipped with his people on the Sa bbath (Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56). Simi lar verses can be shown for the apostles after the death of Jesus (Acts 13:14; 13:27; 13:44; 15:21; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4; Rev 1:10). When our hearts become changed to LOVE God and our fellow man the Sabbath becomes a delight because we love the Lord of the Sabbath ( Isaiah 58:13-14).

So if the Sabbath is meant to be observed on a Saturday how to you must it be observed?

God's Word says in the 4th commandment that His Sabbath is the 7th day of the week (Exodus 20:8-11). This day is a HOLY DAY and on it NO WORK is to be done this includes any buying, selling, any work and business activities are prohibited. The day is a celebration and MEMORIAL of CREATION and that we as His people worship and follow the only true God of creation. The above applies to the heart because it is only through LOVE that any of us can follow God. The Sabbath starts from Friday sunset and ends on Saturday sunset God's time being the evening and the morning make up a day (Genesis 1:5). Friday before the Sabbath is a preparation day before the Sabbath starts. On this day all shopping and cooking can be done in preparation for the Sabbath. We observe it in many way from prayer, bible study, fellowship with believers, time in nature remembering creation through God's Word, singing praise to God and worshiping him. Doing good and helping others, visiting the sick, sharing His Word are all good things to do on His Sabbath. The Sabbath is a delight indeed for those that LOVE him and a blessing in His Rest to those that believe and follow Him in LOVE because he first LOVED us.

If one agrees with your thoughts on how it should be observed why not on any day that ends with a Y?

This question has already been answered above. We should worship God everyday of course but God's 4th commandment says that the 7th Day of the week is a HOLY DAY and no work in thought and action is permitted as it is a day for remembering creation and a day to spend with our maker.

I am not trying to trip you up here. Thats not my style.Just chewing the cud as we say over here.Bill

I know Bill that is why I like sharing with you.

 

[Grandpa]

Yet you believe a lie about Jesus, and when exposed you accuse me of judging you. How can Jesus write a lie on your heart?

Am I your enemy because I expose a deception that has taken hold of your mind? It wasn't meant that way at all.

Sorry you feel that way.

How can Jesus write Death and Condemnation on your heart, as you contend? (The 10 commandments)

2 Corinthians 3:7-9
[FONT=&quot]7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

So obviously the 10 commandments aren't written on our hearts. So then what law is written on our hearts?[/FONT]

 

[Grandpa]

Thats what I would like to discuss. Why did paul say that was a bad thing, why is obeying Gods commands by the letter an issue?

Because the law is spiritual but we are carnal. We can't do it.

But we are blessed when we realize our spiritual poverty. Because then we know to rely on Christ and not ourselves.

Matthew 5:3 [FONT=&quot] “·They are blessed [or Blessed are those…; C and so through v. 10]who ·realize their spiritual poverty [L are the poor in spirit],[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] for the kingdom of heaven ·belongs to them [is theirs].[/FONT]

 

[Studyman]

what would that lie be? Can you be more precise? This is just accusing with no facts.. Not saying your wrong, just asking for more information.

Sure EG,

Anything for a brother. The lie is the preaching that the Pharisees and their followers, the Jews, were trying to please God by obeying Him.

 

[Studyman]

How can Jesus write Death and Condemnation on your heart, as you contend? (The 10 commandments)

2 Corinthians 3:7-9
[FONT=&quot]7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

So obviously the 10 commandments aren't written on our hearts. So then what law is written on our hearts?[/FONT]

Exactly GP, how can Jesus write a lie on someone’s heart? The truth is He does not. If there is a lie in our heart it is placed there by the Father of lies.