peculiar warning of 2 peter 2:20-21

[timemeddler]

For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them

In what way does it become wore than the first? I don't see how it would be worse than never believing in the first place, in the eternal sense, I mean worse than hell sounds like a contradiction in terms. Verses 14 and 15 give us an idea of the sort of false teachers It causing the problem

They have eyes full of adultery,g insatiable for sin. They entice unsteady souls. They have hearts trained in greed. Accursed children! 15Forsaking the right way, they have gone astray. They have followed the way of Balaam, the son of Beor, who loved gain from wrongdoing.

Then it goes on to tell us about who they're leading astray.

For, speaking loud boasts of folly, they entice by sensual passions of the flesh those who are barely escaping from those who live in error. 19They promise them freedom, but they themselves are slaves of corruption. For whatever overcomes a person, to that he is enslaved

So....if it's those led astray by the false teachers, being entagled(they engage in some sin) and Overcome(they stay entangled). How is it worse? Simply being harder to relearn biblical principles than it is to get it right the first time?

Or is it somehow possible it's talking about the false teachers themselves, who are denying the master(verse1)?

 

[Cameron143]

For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them

In what way does it become wore than the first? I don't see how it would be worse than never believing in the first place, in the eternal sense, I mean worse than hell sounds like a contradiction in terms. Verses 14 and 15 give us an idea of the sort of false teachers It causing the problem

They have eyes full of adultery,g insatiable for sin. They entice unsteady souls. They have hearts trained in greed. Accursed children! 15Forsaking the right way, they have gone astray. They have followed the way of Balaam, the son of Beor, who loved gain from wrongdoing.

Then it goes on to tell us about who they're leading astray.

For, speaking loud boasts of folly, they entice by sensual passions of the flesh those who are barely escaping from those who live in error. 19They promise them freedom, but they themselves are slaves of corruption. For whatever overcomes a person, to that he is enslaved

So....if it's those led astray by the false teachers, being entagled(they engage in some sin) and Overcome(they stay entangled). How is it worse? Simply being harder to relearn biblical principles than it is to get it right the first time?

Or is it somehow possible it's talking about the false teachers themselves, who are denying the master(verse1)?

It's worse in the day of judgment. To whom much is given, much is required.

 

[Artios1]

So....if it's those led astray by the false teachers, being entagled (they engage in some sin) and Overcome(they stay entangled). How is it worse? Simply being harder to relearn biblical principles than it is to get it right the first time?

(bolding is mine)

It is worse physically (body & soul) in their conduct, walk, and fellowship with the Father.

It is not just “some sin” ….they become entangled and enslaved with unbridled lusts of the flesh.

You could almost equate it to someone who went back to prison after enjoying the freedoms of the outside world …. Almost …. only it’s deeper than that. Because it would be akin to someone who lived in prison their entire life, then was made free and immersed in all the advantages and untethered freedoms that an individual had never known or experienced. …
And yet through subtle discourse and lusts of the flesh …. they then become enslaved to whatever it might be, specific to the individuals’ over desire. …. Because that is how the advisory manipulates.

For them the last becomes worst than the first, since they escaped the prison of delusion and pollution of the world through the knowledge and deliverance of the Lord Jesus Christ.

They have that knowledge of deliverance and freedom to walk in the glorious statutes of the living Word but instead they return to the vomit of lust through the enticement of the false teachers.

2Co 10:3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:

2Co 10:4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds

2Co 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

2Co 10:6 And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled

 

[timemeddler]

It's worse in the day of judgment. To whom much is given, much is required.

how do you mean? unsaved=hell, how can hell be worse than hell?

 

[timemeddler]

(bolding is mine)

It is worse physically (body & soul) in their conduct, walk, and fellowship with the Father.

It is not just “some sin” ….they become entangled and enslaved with unbridled lusts of the flesh.

You could almost equate it to someone who went back to prison after enjoying the freedoms of the outside world …. Almost …. only it’s deeper than that. Because it would be akin to someone who lived in prison their entire life, then was made free and immersed in all the advantages and untethered freedoms that an individual had never known or experienced. …
And yet through subtle discourse and lusts of the flesh …. they then become enslaved to whatever it might be, specific to the individuals’ over desire. …. Because that is how the advisory manipulates.

For them the last becomes worst than the first, since they escaped the prison of delusion and pollution of the world through the knowledge and deliverance of the Lord Jesus Christ.

They have that knowledge of deliverance and freedom to walk in the glorious statutes of the living Word but instead they return to the vomit of lust through the enticement of the false teachers.

2Co 10:3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:

2Co 10:4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds

2Co 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

2Co 10:6 And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled

You mean it's more a matter of they are morally and ethically worse off than before rather than worse off in final judgement and/or practical application relative to the unsaved?

 

[Cameron143]

how do you mean? unsaved=hell, how can hell be worse than hell?

Matthew 12:43-45

 

[notmyown]

Matthew 12:43-45

Lk 10:12?

 

[Cameron143]

Lk 10:12?

That certainly works. I was showing how it works on the unseen, spiritual level as well.

 

[notmyown]

That certainly works. I was showing how it works on the unseen, spiritual level as well.

yes. i thought perhaps showing a more concrete example might help the OP understand your point.
forgive me if i intruded.

 

[Cameron143]

yes. i thought perhaps showing a more concrete example might help the OP understand your point.
forgive me if i intruded.

Your input was not subtraction, but multiplication.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them

In what way does it become wore than the first? I don't see how it would be worse than never believing in the first place, in the eternal sense, I mean worse than hell sounds like a contradiction in terms. Verses 14 and 15 give us an idea of the sort of false teachers It causing the problem

They have eyes full of adultery,g insatiable for sin. They entice unsteady souls. They have hearts trained in greed. Accursed children! 15Forsaking the right way, they have gone astray. They have followed the way of Balaam, the son of Beor, who loved gain from wrongdoing.

Then it goes on to tell us about who they're leading astray.

For, speaking loud boasts of folly, they entice by sensual passions of the flesh those who are barely escaping from those who live in error. 19They promise them freedom, but they themselves are slaves of corruption. For whatever overcomes a person, to that he is enslaved

So....if it's those led astray by the false teachers, being entagled(they engage in some sin) and Overcome(they stay entangled). How is it worse? Simply being harder to relearn biblical principles than it is to get it right the first time?

Or is it somehow possible it's talking about the false teachers themselves, who are denying the master(verse1)?

“For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭10:26-

Its a sobering call to repentance for those who believe it’s a guard against hypergrace where everyone’s already saved no matter what they do now ect the truth is we have to repent

“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:9-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The bible filled with instructions from God to man but the voices in the church seem to cry out “ we don’t need to hear what he said . we don’t need to repent and obey him like he repeatedly said . we’ll never be judged . we’ll never be held accountable for what he said we will “

the problem is when people hear that and then hear the Bible they reject the Bible and repeat the chorus of voices “ that can’t be true toyr already saved nothing to do “ but Gods been teaching us what to do . We hear it and say” that’s a work that’s salvation by works we’re already saved by the “grace covenant “ ……

It’s worse to say I believe and then live like we don’t it’s removing our excuse of ignorance and leaves no room for us to escape

 

[oyster67]

In what way does it become wore than the first? I don't see how it would be worse than never believing in the first place, in the eternal sense, I mean worse than hell sounds like a contradiction in terms. Verses 14 and 15 give us an idea of the sort of false teachers It causing the problem

Persons are accountable for what they know and have experienced. Those who have gone apostate may be given over to a reprobate mind. The seeker may still find the way, but the reprobate is as good as dead already.

Ecclesiastes 9:4
“For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion.”

 

[timemeddler]

Persons are accountable for what they know and have experienced. Those who have gone apostate may be given over to a reprobate mind. The seeker may still find the way, but the reprobate is as good as dead already.

Ecclesiastes 9:4
“For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion.”

good point, there's always the possibility an unbeliever may be saved later, someone who begun believing and then decided to completely jump ship is unlikely to repent later.

 

[mailmandan]

Those who are truly born of God have received a new nature, a divine nature. They have been transformed from pigs and dogs into sheep. The change is more than just cosmetic, as in 2 Peter 2:20. These cleaned up on the outside dogs and pigs were never sheep.

Compare 2 Peter 1:4 - "partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption - Strongs #5356 that is in the world through lust with 2 Peter 2:20 - with they escaped the pollutions - Strongs #3356 (different Greek word) of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, yet they are again entangled therein, and overcome.

*Notice that 2 Peter 2:20 did not mention them being "partakers of the divine nature." Corruption is deeper than pollutions/defilements on the outside: it is decay on the inside.

Having the knowledge of Jesus Christ does not save a person if there is no heart submission to that knowledge. The latter end is worse than the beginning for these men because rejecting this knowledge will make them more accountable at the judgment. Judas Iscariot is a good example of someone who rejected the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ yet was never saved. (John 6:64-71; 13:10-11)

 

[montana123]

For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them

In what way does it become wore than the first? I don't see how it would be worse than never believing in the first place, in the eternal sense, I mean worse than hell sounds like a contradiction in terms. Verses 14 and 15 give us an idea of the sort of false teachers It causing the problem

They have eyes full of adultery,g insatiable for sin. They entice unsteady souls. They have hearts trained in greed. Accursed children! 15Forsaking the right way, they have gone astray. They have followed the way of Balaam, the son of Beor, who loved gain from wrongdoing.

Then it goes on to tell us about who they're leading astray.

For, speaking loud boasts of folly, they entice by sensual passions of the flesh those who are barely escaping from those who live in error. 19They promise them freedom, but they themselves are slaves of corruption. For whatever overcomes a person, to that he is enslaved

So....if it's those led astray by the false teachers, being entagled(they engage in some sin) and Overcome(they stay entangled). How is it worse? Simply being harder to relearn biblical principles than it is to get it right the first time?

Or is it somehow possible it's talking about the false teachers themselves, who are denying the master(verse1)?

A person can have faith and be saved, and lose salvation if they go back to sinning by holding unto it for 2 Peter 2:20-21 testifies of that.

2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
2Pe 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

These people were saved for they have known the way of righteousness, but they turned from it which the Bible says if they do not continue in the goodness of God they will be cut off.

But this can be corrected for all sin can be forgiven.

If they are entangled, and overcome, is it talking the latter end is worse with them because they lost salvation, or that they are more sinful than when they were in the world before confessing Christ.

It kind of sounds like they lost salvation so it is worse for it would have been better to not have known the truth than to turn from it.

 

[glf]

Gal 5 "Christ has become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law, ye are fallen from grace."

1 Cor 7: 8, 9 "I say to the unmarried and widows, it is good if they remain even as I. But if they cannot contain, let them marry, for it is better to marry than to burn."

 

[Obedience]

In what way does it become wore than the first?

Such behavior may have affected others, leading to even worse situations.
Just like Balaam, who initially believed in God's words, but later due to his own selfish desires, Causing the Israelites to engage in adultery. This is the even worse situation, right?

 

[Kroogz]

For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them

In what way does it become wore than the first? I don't see how it would be worse than never believing in the first place, in the eternal sense, I mean worse than hell sounds like a contradiction in terms. Verses 14 and 15 give us an idea of the sort of false teachers It causing the problem

They have eyes full of adultery,g insatiable for sin. They entice unsteady souls. They have hearts trained in greed. Accursed children! 15Forsaking the right way, they have gone astray. They have followed the way of Balaam, the son of Beor, who loved gain from wrongdoing.

Then it goes on to tell us about who they're leading astray.

For, speaking loud boasts of folly, they entice by sensual passions of the flesh those who are barely escaping from those who live in error. 19They promise them freedom, but they themselves are slaves of corruption. For whatever overcomes a person, to that he is enslaved

So....if it's those led astray by the false teachers, being entagled(they engage in some sin) and Overcome(they stay entangled). How is it worse? Simply being harder to relearn biblical principles than it is to get it right the first time?

Or is it somehow possible it's talking about the false teachers themselves, who are denying the master(verse1)?

Matt 10:15~~Truly I say to you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment, than for that city.

This suggests placements in the LoF. Levels so to speak.

They knowingly rejected the Lord Jesus Christ. These false teachers have greater accountability and for all eternity will have the knowledge that they rejected the truth. In the deepest parts of the LoF.

Matt 12~~43 “Now when the unclean spirit goes out of a man, it passes through waterless places seeking rest, and does not find it.

44 “Then it says, ‘I will return to my house from which I came’; and when it comes, it finds it unoccupied, swept, and put in order.(religion)

45 “Then it goes and takes along with it seven other spirits more wicked than itself, and they go in and live there; and athe last state of that man becomes worse than the first. That is the way it will also be with this evil generation.”

Religion is satans greatest deception.
2 Cor 11:14~~
No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.