Pentecostal view of the holy spirit.

[timemeddler]

Been doing some reading lately on the whole tongues thing. Coming from a baptist background much of this philosophy is new to me, hopefully actual Pentecostals will reply. As I understand it most mainstream Pentecostals seem to believe there's two forms of the holy spirit. One that occurs at salvation and the other an occur at any time, and is supposed to manifest itself as tongue speaking to empower the individual. If I were to paraphrase, is it like being registered with the holy spirit at first and the recieving of actual power comes later as a sign you move on to ministry?

Seems there's a common view amongst baptists thinking pentacostals make tongues vital to salvation, but from what I've dug up, only a small handful of sub-categories seem to believe this and few of them seem to come out and say it. Closest I can find appear to say "Speaking in tongues is the only way to be absolutely sure you're saved." which I don't agree with. Though the notion of two different aspects of the holy spirit would explain some things in book of acts. So I'm guessing the attitude of Pentecostals claiming your only saved if you speak in tongues is a false stereotype?

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

Seems there's a common view amongst baptists thinking pentacostals make tongues vital to salvation, but from what I've dug up, only a small handful of sub-categories seem to believe this and few of them seem to come out and say it. Closest I can find appear to say "Speaking in tongues is the only way to be absolutely sure you're saved." which I don't agree with.

And the vast majority of Pentecostals would agree with that.

Though the notion of two different aspects of the holy spirit would explain some things in book of acts. So I'm guessing the attitude of Pentecostals claiming your only saved if you speak in tongues is a false stereotype?

It's a false stereotype unless you are UPC (United Pent.) or Holiness. They believe you aren't saved until you speak in tongues. My grandmother grew up Baptist, then became Pentecostal after being away from the Lord for some time. She never spoke in tongues her entire life. And if that woman wasn't saved, nobody is! Literally had the patience of Job, a prayer warrior, would take the poor kids off the streets and feed them at her own expense. She took a brain tumor before she passed. She was living with our family, was in my teens. I went to check on her one morning and she was speaking in tongues. Half of the people here would say she was demon possessed. smh But my point is she was saved long before the in filling of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Gideon300]

Been doing some reading lately on the whole tongues thing. Coming from a baptist background much of this philosophy is new to me, hopefully actual Pentecostals will reply. As I understand it most mainstream Pentecostals seem to believe there's two forms of the holy spirit. One that occurs at salvation and the other an occur at any time, and is supposed to manifest itself as tongue speaking to empower the individual. If I were to paraphrase, is it like being registered with the holy spirit at first and the recieving of actual power comes later as a sign you move on to ministry?

Seems there's a common view amongst baptists thinking pentacostals make tongues vital to salvation, but from what I've dug up, only a small handful of sub-categories seem to believe this and few of them seem to come out and say it. Closest I can find appear to say "Speaking in tongues is the only way to be absolutely sure you're saved." which I don't agree with. Though the notion of two different aspects of the holy spirit would explain some things in book of acts. So I'm guessing the attitude of Pentecostals claiming your only saved if you speak in tongues is a false stereotype?

As you say, there are a relatively small number of Pentecostals who say that if you do not speak in tongues you are not saved. My reply to them is go drink some poison and get bitten by a venomous snake. That's in the same passage.

One good way I've heard it described is that the Holy Spirit baptises (immerses) the believer into Christ. Then Christ baptises the believer in the Holy Spirit. The first event is at salvation, when we are born again. The second is subsequent and may be immediately or some time later. For me, it was about 3-1/2 years.

I was a member of a Baptist church for about 6 years then moved on to a Pentecostal church. I discovered that being baptised in the Holy Spirit has little to do with spiritual maturity or fruit. Where I went reminded me of the Corinthians, gifted yet full of division and self seeking.

Lord Jesus said that we would know Christians by their fruit. He did not mention gifts. I'm all for being baptised in the Holy Spirit. But so many take on a proud and condescending spirit at the same time as they receive the gift. It's sad and divisive and only the devil benefits.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Although Southern Baptists generally do not practice speaking of tongues in public worship, many apparently practice speaking of tongues in private. A recent LifeWay study reported that half of SBC pastors believe that God gives some Christians a private prayer language.
Mar 30, 2016

This was in 2016 and I am told it's around 65% [2 out of 3] today 2024.

 

[p_rehbein]

We would all do well to adhere to Paul's teachings concerning speaking in tongues. Paul considered it the lesser of all the Gifts of the Spirit. As well, speaking in tongues is simply speaking an a different language than the original language of the person speaking. Refer to the Day of Pentecost to understand the truth of this.

IMO, the greater percent of people who practice tongues today are not speaking in tongues as is spoken of in Scripture. Why? Because speaking in the "unknown tongues" they practice is UNKNOWN! How then can they publish Books teaching others to speak in an UNKNOWN TONGUE?

My mother once went to a church where tongues was practice because a friend invited her. The friend told her if she wanted to experience speaking in tongues to raise her hands above her head, lean her head way back and turn around fast and say "the keys to my Honda, the keys to my Honda over and over until she was speaking in tongues."

She decided it was time to leave, so she excused herself and left the church.

Only the Holy Spirit can bring someone to speak in tongues, and then there must be a translator to reveal to the Congregation what is being said.

Ie: If I go to church Sunday and the Spirit moves me to speak in Russian (which I have never spoke a word of) I am speaking in tongues. However, if there is not a translator there who speaks Russian, I am to remain silent so as not to cause confusion among the Congregation.

The biggest thing to remember is speaking in tongues through the Holy Spirit is ALWAYS done for a purpose! Again, see Acts and the Scriptures there revealing that the tongues spoken on that day was to spread the Gospel of Jesus, NOT to show to the world that one is saved or any such.

Those who say one must speak in tongues to be truly saved are false teachers!

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Been doing some reading lately on the whole tongues thing. Coming from a baptist background much of this philosophy is new to me, hopefully actual Pentecostals will reply. As I understand it most mainstream Pentecostals seem to believe there's two forms of the holy spirit. One that occurs at salvation and the other an occur at any time, and is supposed to manifest itself as tongue speaking to empower the individual. If I were to paraphrase, is it like being registered with the holy spirit at first and the recieving of actual power comes later as a sign you move on to ministry?

Seems there's a common view amongst baptists thinking pentacostals make tongues vital to salvation, but from what I've dug up, only a small handful of sub-categories seem to believe this and few of them seem to come out and say it. Closest I can find appear to say "Speaking in tongues is the only way to be absolutely sure you're saved." which I don't agree with. Though the notion of two different aspects of the holy spirit would explain some things in book of acts. So I'm guessing the attitude of Pentecostals claiming your only saved if you speak in tongues is a false stereotype?

Tongues is a practical gift in order to spread the gospel to all people and languages a tool to carry out the great commission

“But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judæa, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭1:8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

He commanded this of Hebrews who didn’t speak n every nations language so how could they accomplish this task ? Only by the power of Gods spirit and the miraculous things he does

“And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.

And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilæans? And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judæa, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia, Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:3-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

without this gift the gospel couldn’t have been communicated to other peoples beginning at Jerusalem and spreading out to all people. I think tongues is a practical gift for the furtherance of spreading Gods word of salvstion to all whether they understand Hebrew Aramaic Greek English Vietnamese or whatever language there is

god is able to reach us wherever and whoever we are he created the divide in languages in genesis eleven and he repaired it by his spirit at pentocost

 

[Wansvic]

Been doing some reading lately on the whole tongues thing. Coming from a baptist background much of this philosophy is new to me, hopefully actual Pentecostals will reply. As I understand it most mainstream Pentecostals seem to believe there's two forms of the holy spirit. One that occurs at salvation and the other an occur at any time, and is supposed to manifest itself as tongue speaking to empower the individual. If I were to paraphrase, is it like being registered with the holy spirit at first and the recieving of actual power comes later as a sign you move on to ministry?

Seems there's a common view amongst baptists thinking pentacostals make tongues vital to salvation, but from what I've dug up, only a small handful of sub-categories seem to believe this and few of them seem to come out and say it. Closest I can find appear to say "Speaking in tongues is the only way to be absolutely sure you're saved." which I don't agree with. Though the notion of two different aspects of the holy spirit would explain some things in book of acts. So I'm guessing the attitude of Pentecostals claiming your only saved if you speak in tongues is a false stereotype?

Many believe the Holy Ghost is received upon belief in the gospel message. However, scripture reveals this is not the case. What scripture does reveal, and confirm is speaking in tongues is the sign that accompanies the indwelling of the Holy Ghost. (Acts 2:1-4, 8:12-17, 10:44-48, 19:1-6) And according to Paul being indwelt with the Spirit is required in order to be saved. (Rom. 8:9)

• “And they were ALL filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, …” (Acts 2:4) Peter specified what bystanders were seeing and hearing WAS the Holy Ghost that Jesus had shed forth as promised. (Acts 2:33)
• The disciples knew the Gentiles received the Holy Ghost when they heard them speak in tongues. (Acts 10:46)
• The Samaritans believed and obeyed the gospel message, yet did not receive the Holy Ghost. A natural question arises. How did the people know that they had not received the Holy Ghost? Peter and John came days later to assist in their receiving the Holy Ghost. Also, ask yourself. What did Simon SEE that convinced him that the Samaritans had received the Holy Ghost? (Acts 8:12-18) In light of the consistent reference to speaking in tongues elsewhere in scripture the answer becomes clear.
• Consider two things the Apostle Paul’s question to the 12 Ephesians reveals; Have you received the Holy Ghost since you believed? It reveals the Holy Ghost is not always spontaneously received upon belief. And that people know when the Holy Ghost has arrived in their body. Again, consistent with scripture, the undeniable sign is speaking in tongues. “And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues…” (Acts 19:1-7) Note as well the account specifically numbers the individuals indicating not just some but ALL had the same experience. (verse 7)
• Also, remember Jesus words in Luke 11:13. He said those who have not received the Holy Spirit should ask the Father for the gift. Jesus' words prove once again that a person can know without a doubt whether or not they have the Holy Spirit.

God's word states there is one common salvation and everyone is to earnestly seek out the truth that was first delivered to the saints/disciples. (Jude 3) The biblical record is clear. The truth concerning tongues as the sign of receiving the Holy Spirit is revealed through the detailed record of the disciples and others (120) at Pentecost, (Acts 2:2-42) and on at least 2 other occasions, (Acts 10, 19) and is alluded to in the Acts 8 account. We are told to study the word in order to get a clear understanding of God’s principles. There will always be 2-3 witnesses/scriptures in the word that confirm if one’s understanding on any given topic is the actual truth. (2 Cor. 13:1, Matt. 18:16) The foregoing information pertaining to tongues being the evidence of the infilling of the Holy Ghost/Spirit meets that criterion.


Spiritual Gift of Tongues:
Many fail to realize the distinction concerning speaking in tongues. Paul’s discourse about Spiritual gifts (1 Cor. 12) was presented to born again believers all of which had previously manifested tongues upon receiving the indwelling of the Holy Ghost. Paul provides insight concerning speaking in tongues in prayer to God for personal edification. (1 Cor. 14) Whereas, not all will operate in the Spiritual gift of tongues requiring interpretation to edify others.

 

[Lamar]

Been doing some reading lately on the whole tongues thing. Coming from a baptist background much of this philosophy is new to me, hopefully actual Pentecostals will reply. As I understand it most mainstream Pentecostals seem to believe there's two forms of the holy spirit. One that occurs at salvation and the other an occur at any time, and is supposed to manifest itself as tongue speaking to empower the individual. If I were to paraphrase, is it like being registered with the holy spirit at first and the recieving of actual power comes later as a sign you move on to ministry?

Seems there's a common view amongst baptists thinking pentacostals make tongues vital to salvation, but from what I've dug up, only a small handful of sub-categories seem to believe this and few of them seem to come out and say it. Closest I can find appear to say "Speaking in tongues is the only way to be absolutely sure you're saved." which I don't agree with. Though the notion of two different aspects of the holy spirit would explain some things in book of acts. So I'm guessing the attitude of Pentecostals claiming your only saved if you speak in tongues is a false stereotype?

Warning.

Before getting too worked up about modern day tongues or glossolalia remember this:

You are dealing with claims of a supernatural event, nothing more.

And all you will ever be referred to are claims of the event. There will be no evidence of the claims, just the claims themselves.

Remember: He who claims is he who proves.

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

Although Southern Baptists generally do not practice speaking of tongues in public worship, many apparently practice speaking of tongues in private. A recent LifeWay study reported that half of SBC pastors believe that God gives some Christians a private prayer language.
Mar 30, 2016

This was in 2016 and I am told it's around 65% [2 out of 3] today 2024.

I can't prove it, but will take an educated guess. In my experiences, there are a lot of charismatics who like to fellowship with baptists. Nothing wrong with that. I have noticed that another big church in my area would come to our evening services at an evangelical (doctrinally baptistic) church. They attended all our special events, my singles ministry and we all knew each other. Some were open about their beliefs and others kept it to themselves.

After a time, some want to serve in leadership positions for various reasons. Rather than being forthright and saying, *"doctrinally I am a Pentecostal," then being rejected as a candidate as a Sunday school teacher, group leader, or paid staff position, they keep their mouth shut or lie. Note that we are not talking about an ecumenical church. There were a handful of people from all backgrounds competing for leadership positions. I even had to warn one who was appointing leaders of a practicing lost Roman Catholic who infiltrated our church who wanted a teaching position. It's not confined to charismatics, but that's what I've seen most, probably because of the large population of those denominations.

I'm not lumping charismatics in general into this category, but I admit that I've seen it happen many times in independent Baptist churches, one mega church that got out of the Southern Baptist convention and followed Andy Stanley.

I have seen a church that was the oldest Baptist church in this part of the state get infiltrated by a slick talker who undermined the preacher and eventually took over the church in a very devious way. Nobody knew his doctrinal beliefs until he had split the church and taken over. One of many examples.

A Pentecostal friend who attended a Baptist church, Baptist congregation in Fairmont WV was the only one who knew his pastor was a Pentecostal preacher posing as a Baptist while he pastored the congregation.
I've had plenty of charismatic friends/ family, but they get to know me they know what I believe. If I were to apply to candidate to take a leadership position in a new church, I would show the courtesy of being forthright, frank and honest to the pastor from the start. There are a lot of people who are not. They aren't all charismatic. There are a lot of baptist infiltrators who don't even have the right gospel I've met. I've caught a pagan homosexual witch who was praying to an idol . She no longer had influence of children in the mega church. She left right away. Likewise on and on.

You pointed out a problem, which is one of many, in the S. Baptist fellowship. Perhaps this is a common problem. I should not be surprised. Thank you for the information. It confirms a lot of my observations over my lifetime.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Many believe the Holy Ghost is received upon belief in the gospel message. However, scripture reveals this is not the case. What scripture does reveal, and confirm is speaking in tongues is the sign that accompanies the indwelling of the Holy Ghost. (Acts 2:1-4, 8:12-17, 10:44-48, 19:1-6) And according to Paul being indwelt with the Spirit is required in order to be saved. (Rom. 8:9)

• “And they were ALL filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, …” (Acts 2:4) Peter specified what bystanders were seeing and hearing WAS the Holy Ghost that Jesus had shed forth as promised. (Acts 2:33)
• The disciples knew the Gentiles received the Holy Ghost when they heard them speak in tongues. (Acts 10:46)
• The Samaritans believed and obeyed the gospel message, yet did not receive the Holy Ghost. A natural question arises. How did the people know that they had not received the Holy Ghost? Peter and John came days later to assist in their receiving the Holy Ghost. Also, ask yourself. What did Simon SEE that convinced him that the Samaritans had received the Holy Ghost? (Acts 8:12-18) In light of the consistent reference to speaking in tongues elsewhere in scripture the answer becomes clear.
• Consider two things the Apostle Paul’s question to the 12 Ephesians reveals; Have you received the Holy Ghost since you believed? It reveals the Holy Ghost is not always spontaneously received upon belief. And that people know when the Holy Ghost has arrived in their body. Again, consistent with scripture, the undeniable sign is speaking in tongues. “And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues…” (Acts 19:1-7) Note as well the account specifically numbers the individuals indicating not just some but ALL had the same experience. (verse 7)
• Also, remember Jesus words in Luke 11:13. He said those who have not received the Holy Spirit should ask the Father for the gift. Jesus' words prove once again that a person can know without a doubt whether or not they have the Holy Spirit.

God's word states there is one common salvation and everyone is to earnestly seek out the truth that was first delivered to the saints/disciples. (Jude 3) The biblical record is clear. The truth concerning tongues as the sign of receiving the Holy Spirit is revealed through the detailed record of the disciples and others (120) at Pentecost, (Acts 2:2-42) and on at least 2 other occasions, (Acts 10, 19) and is alluded to in the Acts 8 account. We are told to study the word in order to get a clear understanding of God’s principles. There will always be 2-3 witnesses/scriptures in the word that confirm if one’s understanding on any given topic is the actual truth. (2 Cor. 13:1, Matt. 18:16) The foregoing information pertaining to tongues being the evidence of the infilling of the Holy Ghost/Spirit meets that criterion.


Spiritual Gift of Tongues:
Many fail to realize the distinction concerning speaking in tongues. Paul’s discourse about Spiritual gifts (1 Cor. 12) was presented to born again believers all of which had previously manifested tongues upon receiving the indwelling of the Holy Ghost. Paul provides insight concerning speaking in tongues in prayer to God for personal edification. (1 Cor. 14) Whereas, not all will operate in the Spiritual gift of tongues requiring interpretation to edify others.

“Many believe the Holy Ghost is received upon belief in the gospel message. However, scripture reveals this is not the case. “

I’d say the opposite that it reveals that to be the case.

“You know the message God sent to the people of Israel, announcing the good news of peace through Jesus Christ, who is Lord of all. You know what has happened throughout the province of Judea, beginning in Galilee after the baptism that John preached— how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power, and how he went around doing good and healing all who were under the power of the devil, because God was with him.( same accounts we read in Matt mark Luke and John )

We are witnesses of everything he did in the country of the Jews and in Jerusalem. They killed him by hanging him on a cross, but God raised him from the dead on the third day and caused him to be seen.

He commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one whom God appointed as judge of the living and the dead. All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.


While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on Gentiles.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:36-40, 42-45‬ ‭NIV‬‬

honestly brother I think we should acknolwedge there’s no prescribed recipe or certain order but nly one element is always present , it’s people hearing about Jesus and believing this is who receives his spirit.

The sincerity of thier belief of the message is the lone element required true and sincere belief of the gospel message of Jesus and his eternal kingdom

the message that began all the apostles were discussing in tbier letters the promise Jesus made that his spirit would be given to his disciples and belief is the first step where that must begin.

just saying “I believe “ not hearing ….is different from hearing the message Jesus sent to us in his own words promising the spirit , salvation , eternal life with him in his kingdom , new birth in spirit ect all the things the rest of the nt teaches as we begin to hear the gospel just believing the true general message about jesus who he is and that he died and rose for us is how the spirit comes

But if I’m taught up front “ you receive the spirit only by baptism “ or you receive the spirit only this way or only that way …. Then I’m going to believe that way then it’s going to become part of faith and I’ll need to do that whatever I’m taught


receiving the Holy Ghost is t the end of salvation it’s the promise the beginning of a journey with the lord

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

I can't prove it, but will take an educated guess. In my experiences, there are a lot of charismatics who like to fellowship with baptists. Nothing wrong with that. I have noticed that another big church in my area would come to our evening services at an evangelical (doctrinally baptistic) church. They attended all our special events, my singles ministry and we all knew each other. Some were open about their beliefs and others kept it to themselves.

After a time, some want to serve in leadership positions for various reasons. Rather than being forthright and saying, *"doctrinally I am a Pentecostal," then being rejected as a candidate as a Sunday school teacher, group leader, or paid staff position, they keep their mouth shut or lie. Note that we are not talking about an ecumenical church. There were a handful of people from all backgrounds competing for leadership positions. I even had to warn one who was appointing leaders of a practicing lost Roman Catholic who infiltrated our church who wanted a teaching position. It's not confined to charismatics, but that's what I've seen most, probably because of the large population of those denominations.

I'm not lumping charismatics in general into this category, but I admit that I've seen it happen many times in independent Baptist churches, one mega church that got out of the Southern Baptist convention and followed Andy Stanley.

I have seen a church that was the oldest Baptist church in this part of the state get infiltrated by a slick talker who undermined the preacher and eventually took over the church in a very devious way. Nobody knew his doctrinal beliefs until he had split the church and taken over. One of many examples.

A Pentecostal friend who attended a Baptist church, Baptist congregation in Fairmont WV was the only one who knew his pastor was a Pentecostal preacher posing as a Baptist while he pastored the congregation.
I've had plenty of charismatic friends/ family, but they get to know me they know what I believe. If I were to apply to candidate to take a leadership position in a new church, I would show the courtesy of being forthright, frank and honest to the pastor from the start. There are a lot of people who are not. They aren't all charismatic. There are a lot of baptist infiltrators who don't even have the right gospel I've met. I've caught a pagan homosexual witch who was praying to an idol . She no longer had influence of children in the mega church. She left right away. Likewise on and on.

You pointed out a problem, which is one of many, in the S. Baptist fellowship. Perhaps this is a common problem. I should not be surprised. Thank you for the information. It confirms a lot of my observations over my lifetime.

I heard about this from several sources and thought it was merely people just talking. But the SBC Organization LifeWay actually has this statement claim on several web pages. And LifeWay is a SBC non-profit organization. So they are directly connected to the SBC because they are part of the SBC. And it floored me as well.

On a different thought connected to this. I know many Baptist people who are members of the Baptist Church. Great friends of mine. And I know a couple who have claimed to Speak in Tongues. So when they told me this my first thought was here is a person, that I know was full committed Cessationist, but now is telling me they Speak in Tongues. My initial reaction was well, if anyone would not be making up Speaking in Tongues, it would be someone who was Cessasionist. So I thought it could only be God to change them.

 

[Nehemiah6]

So I'm guessing the attitude of Pentecostals claiming your only saved if you speak in tongues is a false stereotype?

The Assemblies of God is probably the largest Pentecostal denomination. They believe that those who are FILLED WITH THE SPIRIT (or more precisely receive the "baptism in the Holy Spirit") manifested by speaking in modern tongues" (glossolalia).

This is patently false, since those reported in Scripture as being filled with the Spirit (other than the apostles and disciples on the day of Pentecost) did not speak in tongues. The day of Pentecost was unique. And the "tongues" mentioned in Scripture are actual human languages (glossais), spoken supernaturally be those who never learned them. Not "babbling" glossolalia.

All those who have the indwelling Holy Spirit can also be "filled with the Spirit". Meaning that (a) they can boldly proclaim the Gospel and (b) they will be "walking in the Spirit" and (c) manifesting the fruit of the Spirit. Naturally they will also be (d) exercising their spiritual gift or gifts.

 

[Burn1986]

Been doing some reading lately on the whole tongues thing. Coming from a baptist background much of this philosophy is new to me, hopefully actual Pentecostals will reply. As I understand it most mainstream Pentecostals seem to believe there's two forms of the holy spirit. One that occurs at salvation and the other an occur at any time, and is supposed to manifest itself as tongue speaking to empower the individual. If I were to paraphrase, is it like being registered with the holy spirit at first and the recieving of actual power comes later as a sign you move on to ministry?

Seems there's a common view amongst baptists thinking pentacostals make tongues vital to salvation, but from what I've dug up, only a small handful of sub-categories seem to believe this and few of them seem to come out and say it. Closest I can find appear to say "Speaking in tongues is the only way to be absolutely sure you're saved." which I don't agree with. Though the notion of two different aspects of the holy spirit would explain some things in book of acts. So I'm guessing the attitude of Pentecostals claiming your only saved if you speak in tongues is a false stereotype?

Not sure if it’s a false stereotype, and I doubt pentecostals claim that (hopefully they don’t).

 

[Burn1986]

Been doing some reading lately on the whole tongues thing. Coming from a baptist background much of this philosophy is new to me, hopefully actual Pentecostals will reply. As I understand it most mainstream Pentecostals seem to believe there's two forms of the holy spirit. One that occurs at salvation and the other an occur at any time, and is supposed to manifest itself as tongue speaking to empower the individual. If I were to paraphrase, is it like being registered with the holy spirit at first and the recieving of actual power comes later as a sign you move on to ministry?

Seems there's a common view amongst baptists thinking pentacostals make tongues vital to salvation, but from what I've dug up, only a small handful of sub-categories seem to believe this and few of them seem to come out and say it. Closest I can find appear to say "Speaking in tongues is the only way to be absolutely sure you're saved." which I don't agree with. Though the notion of two different aspects of the holy spirit would explain some things in book of acts. So I'm guessing the attitude of Pentecostals claiming your only saved if you speak in tongues is a false stereotype?

I’ll probably get blasted for this, but that’s kind of the way it seems - you get saved and have a measure of the Holy Spirit. Then, when you receive the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, it’s like you get the fullness (and yeah, speak in tongues). I was raised Baptist too fwiw

 

[Nehemiah6]

My initial reaction was well, if anyone would not be making up Speaking in Tongues, it would be someone who was Cessasionist. So I thought it could only be God to change them.

1. Not God necessarily. God gave the supernatural ability to speak FOREIGN LANGUAGES to those who had never spoken them. Proof? See Acts 2 for at least 15 languages and dialects never spoken by Galileans.

2. It is admitted by all modern tongues speakers that they do not speak distinct foreign languages. Several careful linguistic studies -- even by committed Pentecostals -- have confirmed this.

3. Presently, the modern tongues speakers have started calling their babbling "a prayer language", but Christ used plain words to teach us how to pray. He Himself prayed in either Hebrew or Aramaic. So only the "super spiritual" today have a special language for prayer. Which makes the majority of Christian "second class".

4. What is really disturbing is that Roman Catholics -- who practice a false religion -- have also spoken in "tongues". Would the Holy Spirit even be involved? Think about it.

5. "Ecstatic utterances" (similiar to glossolalia or babbling) have been known to have been spoken by pagans a long time ago. Shamans and witch doctors have also spoken such utterances, and we know that they communicate with evil spirits.

6. If God was involved, English-speaking missionaries who went to foreign lands would hav all received the supernatural ability to speak Chinese, or Swahili, or Hindi. Instead they had to labor for many years trying to learn the language they needed.

6. Baptists were generally sound in their beliefs (and I am very familiar with Baptist beliefs). Ever since the Charismatic Movement began, some Baptists thought they should get on this band-wagon and start speaking in tongues.

7. Personally I would love to meet someone who knows they have the ability to speak a foreign language as given by God. They would be fully conscious of this, so their interpreter would be a native speaker of that language and he would interpret for an English-speaking audience, while the natives heard the Gospel in their own language.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

1. Not God necessarily. God gave the supernatural ability to speak FOREIGN LANGUAGES to those who had never spoken them. Proof? See Acts 2 for at least 15 languages and dialects never spoken by Galileans.

2. It is admitted by all modern tongues speakers that they do not speak distinct foreign languages. Several careful linguistic studies -- even by committed Pentecostals -- have confirmed this.

3. Presently, the modern tongues speakers have started calling their babbling "a prayer language", but Christ used plain words to teach us how to pray. He Himself prayed in either Hebrew or Aramaic. So only the "super spiritual" today have a special language for prayer. Which makes the majority of Christian "second class".

4. What is really disturbing is that Roman Catholics -- who practice a false religion -- have also spoken in "tongues". Would the Holy Spirit even be involved? Think about it.

5. "Ecstatic utterances" (similiar to glossolalia or babbling) have been known to have been spoken by pagans a long time ago. Shamans and witch doctors have also spoken such utterances, and we know that they communicate with evil spirits.

6. If God was involved, English-speaking missionaries who went to foreign lands would hav all received the supernatural ability to speak Chinese, or Swahili, or Hindi. Instead they had to labor for many years trying to learn the language they needed.

6. Baptists were generally sound in their beliefs (and I am very familiar with Baptist beliefs). Ever since the Charismatic Movement began, some Baptists thought they should get on this band-wagon and start speaking in tongues.

7. Personally I would love to meet someone who knows they have the ability to speak a foreign language as given by God. They would be fully conscious of this, so their interpreter would be a native speaker of that language and he would interpret for an English-speaking audience, while the natives heard the Gospel in their own language.

I understand many think the Gifts have finished but it's good to see that the majority of the SBC finally got caught on Fire for God.

 

[Nehemiah6]

I understand many think the Gifts have finished but it's good to see that the majority of the SBC finally got caught on Fire for God.

You conveniently ignored everything I said in my post, and switched the topic. If by SBC you mean the Southern Baptist Convention, I do not see any evidence that Southern Baptists are GENERALLY beginning to speak in tongues.

And the gifts are not finished. But biblical tongues are finished.

 

[Burn1986]

2000+ pages easy

 

[Edify]

And the gifts are not finished. But biblical tongues are finished.

The gifts are not finished, but tongues are, even though they also are a gift of the Spirit? You can't have it both ways.

The disciples were already believers when they went to the upper room, for Jesus finished His work ushering in the New Covenant. Being baptized in the Holy Spirit is a second work of the Spirit in the life of a believer.
It is a baptism of power to do supernatural works that man ordinarily can't do
Even in Pentecostal churches many aren't Baptized in the Spirit becaused they're not seeking it.
Those who don't believe will not receive it.
As for tongues, read about the church of Corinth. Paul told them they were abusing the gifts, including tongues.
Does the Pentecostal & charismatic churches abuse tongues? Yes, but not all.
Judging the Pentecostal church only makes me... a judge. Judge not, lest ye be judged.
Does the church still abuse the gifts? Yes.
However, the difference today is the abuse of Discerning of spirits. This one is abused by denominations when they claim to have it & openly judge denominations other than their own.

 

[Nehemiah6]

The gifts are not finished, but tongues are, even though they also are a gift of the Spirit? You can't have it both ways.

Yes you can. Read this carefully: Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect [complete] is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. (1 Cor 13:8)
Some translations have correctly used "complete" although perfect is acceptable.

Three spiritual gifts -- tongues, supernatural knowledge, and prophecy would cease. They are all related to divine revelations. Why? Because after the Bible was completed there was no need for these gifts. And in Revelation John made it abundantly clear that there could be no more genuine prophecies. He was the last apostle-prophet.

And if you want proof, go to the writings of the Apostolic Fathers in the first and second centuries, and see if any of them (or any Christians of that time) exercised these gifts.