We are all born with a natural inclination to sin in any number of ways. Does that mean we are not required to repent of sinning? Saying something is natural does not excuse it. The natural man is at war with God.
Personal thoughts about homosexuality
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God made us perfect, without a doubt. We were meant to never die. Immortal. But since the fall, it is safe to say we have fallen far short of perfection. We are corrupted. We have a sin nature. Who can say with certainty that one is or is not born with this or that sin inclination.
Does it really matter to anyone here if someone is born with that predisposition, or if they developed it from life experiences. or a combination of both?
Does anyone think that if one were born with the sin inclination to sexual immorality it is a insult to God?
I am just trying to make a point that it is possible that one can be born with a tendency for a certain sin stronghold, that's all.
Lets not get caught up in boxing ourselves in with what may be incorrect dogma. Results are more important then dogma.
Bottom line, they are sinning. Bottom line they need to repent, and have their minds transformed.
Bottom bottom line, we pray for them, we do not approve of the sin, but we love them, and as Christians, we are happy to see them come to Christ.
Beyond that, all of this makes for conversation, but has no eternal implications.
Does anyone think that if one were born with the sin inclination to sexual immorality it is a insult to God?
I am just trying to make a point that it is possible that one can be born with a tendency for a certain sin stronghold, that's all.
Lets not get caught up in boxing ourselves in with what may be incorrect dogma. Results are more important then dogma.
Bottom line, they are sinning. Bottom line they need to repent, and have their minds transformed.
Bottom bottom line, we pray for them, we do not approve of the sin, but we love them, and as Christians, we are happy to see them come to Christ.
Beyond that, all of this makes for conversation, but has no eternal implications.
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kaylagrl
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We've seen plenty of those threads,trust me. One was so explicit people thought the person was trolling. I don't know if we ever did find out.
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kaylagrl
Guest
No,another thread had plenty of Bible verses flying and had to be shut down. Huge disagreement. Yet the threads keep coming.
I wonder why people say that God made man perfect? Is good, perfect? Even Jesus said He is not good, only God in heaven is good. So the idea of perfection escapes me in relation to Adam and Eve. If the first Adam was perfect, would we have needed a second Adam in Jesus Christ? We may have been intended for immortality but it was not a done deal; we are not told that A&E ate from the Tree of Life, Whom I know as Jesus Christ our Lord, Who holds the keys of life and death, being the creator of the heavens and earth and the author and giver of life, Who overcame sin and death on our behalf and gifts us with eternal life if we are found in Him. I think Scripture makes pretty clear than we are born with an inclination to sin. It is called self will, and the natural, unregenerated man opposes God.
Good point. This all makes me think that mankind is a classroom of sorts for the angels and God is demonstrating for them what love is. He is showing them how deeply he loves and what lengths He will go to for His children.
Whatever God did was in perfection. He gave us free will. When we sinned we brought decay into the universe. We screwed up, not God.
If anyone thinks God made us to die, which is imperfection on the part of ghe creator, then why did He tell Adam and Ever that if you eat from that tree you will die?
I'll be honest, I've never been satisfied with discussions of perfection at creation, really.
What do we actually mean by perfection, here, anyway?
Perfection - the condition, state, or quality of being free or as free as possible from all flaws or defects.
I think that would be a good starting point when referring to God and His handy work.
I think that would be a good starting point when referring to God and His handy work.
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1 Corinthians 6, 9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,[SUP]10 [/SUP]Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
We need to be preaching the Gospel to this crowd and just how a drunkard can get saved, a homosexual can get saved. All of these are choices. And just like we do not tolerate thieves and preach against stealing, we should not tolerate homosexuality in the Church and should preach against it.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
We need to be preaching the Gospel to this crowd and just how a drunkard can get saved, a homosexual can get saved. All of these are choices. And just like we do not tolerate thieves and preach against stealing, we should not tolerate homosexuality in the Church and should preach against it.
I agree with what you said. True stuff.
I think that where we need to be very careful is HOW we preach against it. It should always be done in a loving manner, because we're dealing with a person's lifestyle, with homosexuality. Many times that is a condition that they have known and felt since early childhood, so if you come at them with hellfire and brimstone, most just switch you, and your God, off.
If they are approached with the love of Christ, there is a much greater likelihood of seeds being planted.
Of course, I'm not a big fan of hellfire and brimstone when discussing ANY sin... I don't want to SCARE people to Jesus, I want to let the Spirit lead them there. We must explain the results of sin, but in a loving way.
I'm also assuming that you mean the church shouldn't tolerate the homosexual that sees no problem with that lifestyle, and says "I don't care what YOU say the Bible says, I'm going to keep on being homosexual"
The church should definitely tolerate the homosexual that has been saved, and is trying to walk in the light, no matter how often he stumbles..
If not, then we need to start drumming out the stumbling gossips, prideful people, liars, etc...
ALL of us stumble... then we turn around and keep on trying to get closer to Jesus.
They need to truly repent and desire a change to be tolerated in the Church. The Church cannot tolerate an adulterous lifestyle from a believer. They are to be put out of the Church. See 1 Corinthians 5. A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump. We are not even to eat with those who are not repenting of their lifestyle. I a drunkard gets saved, but continues to be a drunk, we are to put that drunkard out of the Church. That's biblical Church discipline.
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SomeHuman
Guest
I'd like to point out that in the same book as you have "you shall not lie in bed with a man as with a woman" (or something along those lines) You have things like "wear four tassles on all of your clothing" and "put rails on the sides of your houses," so that's not all that reliable. but even if it was, what is more important is obviously this: "The second is this: 'love thy neighbour as yourself' there is no commandment greater than these." Funny how so many Christians will get super uptight about gay marriage but then will say "I HATE communists" or "I HATE Muslims" or "I HATE liberals." So much hate and focus on one abstract verse of the bible, it seems that our priorities are not straight (pun intended).
There is an old Christian cliche ''Hate the sin but love the sinner''. We live in a fallen world. Christ came not to condemn but to save. We are supposed to become like him.
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Ugly
Guest
Firstly, as i pointed out in your other post i responded to, you are making blanket statements again. You are referring to all Christians as being a certain way and saying certain things. This causes you to lose credibility.
Secondly, the bible says that homosexuality is an 'abomination' to God. Homosexuality causes disgust and hate (not for the person, but the act) in God. So you can't simply run to verses about love and claim that it negates other verses in the bible. And because you dislike that verse doesn't mean you get to dismiss it as abstract. And, abstract or not, if GOD said it, then there's no arguing with it.
Third, particularly the OT books are known for being varied in their story lines and intents. Reading a verse out of a book in the OT in one area, and then reading another area of the same book does not mean each part was meant with the same intentions. So to say that a specific OT book says one thing, but here it says another, so it's all invalid is a faulty logic on your end, stemming from a solid understanding of how the OT books are written, and not on your superior intellect to figure out what millions of other Christians have overlooked before you.
Christians are saying 'I HATE communists'? Are we in the 1950's?
How is it that, at 16, and what sounds like having a very small amount of exposure to the world as a whole, you are able to feel comfortable correcting and rebuking those who have more in depth knowledge of the bible? And have more years of experience on what it means to live it than you have on this planet?
Every so often we come across a 16 year old (must be a magic number) who thinks he has out smart every other person on this site and comes here to show us all how wrong we are. I've yet to see even one of them walk away saying something that hasn't already been said, and answered, 1000 times already.
And lastly, on the issue of homosexuality, which i have a feeling plays a large part in this, and your other post, a good portion of peoples attitudes about homosexuality stem from the forceful agenda of the homosexual community. I, for one, am against homosexuality, and the same of all my closest friends. Also, with me, and all my closest friends, we have no issue with homosexual individuals. I have worked with a number of homosexuals that never knew i was against it. Some of them were great people. Some were horrible people.
But over the years i have felt homosexuality shoved down my throat. Even though i don't agree with bullying, picking on or any other form of mean treatment of homosexuals, and don't have a problem working with them, but because i simply disagree with the concept i am labeled as hateful, bigoted and homophobic. The idea that i either agree or am a closed minded bigot actually does more to set me against, not only homosexuality, but against homosexuals in general. That kids are forced to learn these ideas at a young age in schools, and told that this is acceptable and normal and maybe even something they should ask about themselves, is forcing it on people. Homosexuality is being forced on people to accept. This takes people who disagree with the act and frustrates them and turns them against the people as well. Homosexuals often love to play the role of martyr. They create scenarios to incur negative reactions, then cry 'bigot' when they get a backlash. So before you go accusing people of a behavior perhaps you should see if the people who are the focus have done anything to encourage it. Which you clearly have not looked into.
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th1bill
Guest
God forms every one of us in the womb (Jer 1:5) and God has no part with sin! God does not and has never created a Homosexual, queer or whatever you want to call them. Homosexuality is a choice, they are not born that way.
What you said there could not be further from the truth. Chapters 18-22 of Leviticus contain ethical laws that you and I know and abide by today, such as not lying with animals (18:23), or not sacrificing our children (18:21). The fact is that the ethical laws given in these chapters, in contrast to the ceremonial ones, were universal and brought about the judgment of God no matter what people praticed them. God tells them that the Canaanites did the very things he is warning against in this chapter, and we know that they were destroyed for it (18:27-28). God warns of anyone practicing them (18:28-30).
You are wrong in your assumption that these laws are not applicable.
Secondly, the apostle Paul uses the Septuagint translation of Lev 18:23, to coin the term ἀρσενοκοίτης (men who take men to bed), in 1 Cor 6:9. He coins it directly from two words in Lev 18:23, ἄρσην (Man) and κοίτη (Bed). The apostle doing this shows just how serious God was about his universal prohibitions against homosexual behavior, for everyone.
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SomeHuman
Guest
Tanakh: Thanks for not getting angry at me for doing what this thread is for... However it seems, from my experience, that many people hate the sinner too, which is unfortunate. Oftentimes the people on the internet will tell you more about a situation of general (this doesn't mean all) ideas of a group, and on the internet I typically see many "Christians" who talk about how much they hate gay people, how they're going to hell and they deserve it, etc.
Ugly: I certainly disagree with people telling you that you are hateful just for disagreeing with the concept, that is really ridiculous. Also I never said all, I only said many... not even the majority has to say it for it to be many. I respect your opinion but really, this forum is titled "thoughts on homosexuality." My age doesn't exclude me from having thoughts on it, you can take it or leave it but I have logically reached my conclusion, including with consulting of people more knowledgeable than me. I'm not going to create a rebuttal to what you said because this is about thoughts on homosexuality not "convince other people that they are wrong about homosexuality." I highly doubt that we will change each others' ideas in the slightest over the internet if we get into a debate.
Baptist_Student: The other things in that chapter are basically intuitive... almost all decent humans know that it's disgusting to have sex with your family or a dog, or sacrifice your children, homosexuality is the only one there that is not intuitively wrong. Although your points are good, I'll think about them some more. Always good to keep my mind open to the possibility that I was wrong. As for the other one... I have actually heard so many different things about that verse that at this point I'm just really fricking confused....
Good morning/afternoon/evening/night!
Ugly: I certainly disagree with people telling you that you are hateful just for disagreeing with the concept, that is really ridiculous. Also I never said all, I only said many... not even the majority has to say it for it to be many. I respect your opinion but really, this forum is titled "thoughts on homosexuality." My age doesn't exclude me from having thoughts on it, you can take it or leave it but I have logically reached my conclusion, including with consulting of people more knowledgeable than me. I'm not going to create a rebuttal to what you said because this is about thoughts on homosexuality not "convince other people that they are wrong about homosexuality." I highly doubt that we will change each others' ideas in the slightest over the internet if we get into a debate.
Baptist_Student: The other things in that chapter are basically intuitive... almost all decent humans know that it's disgusting to have sex with your family or a dog, or sacrifice your children, homosexuality is the only one there that is not intuitively wrong. Although your points are good, I'll think about them some more. Always good to keep my mind open to the possibility that I was wrong. As for the other one... I have actually heard so many different things about that verse that at this point I'm just really fricking confused....
Good morning/afternoon/evening/night!