(poll) Do We Choose Him or Does he choose us?
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God chooses us.
John 6
65 And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”
Acts 16
13 And on the Sabbath day we went outside the gate to the riverside, where we supposed there was a place of prayer, and we sat down and spoke to the women who had come together. 14 One who heard us was a woman named Lydia, from the city of Thyatira, a seller of purple goods, who was a worshiper of God. The Lord opened her heart to pay attention to what was said by Paul.
Ephesians 1:4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love
John 6
65 And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”
Acts 16
13 And on the Sabbath day we went outside the gate to the riverside, where we supposed there was a place of prayer, and we sat down and spoke to the women who had come together. 14 One who heard us was a woman named Lydia, from the city of Thyatira, a seller of purple goods, who was a worshiper of God. The Lord opened her heart to pay attention to what was said by Paul.
Ephesians 1:4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love
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We must be Calvinists. 
So I just know that is the truth by his word and him giving understanding by the spirit
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Well, I was going to respond to the subject, but after reading, I see that the question wasn't something someone was literally interested in. This was a misleading thread, and I just wanted to make my opinion known. No bother to reply, as you won't get a response. You should be ashamed of yourself. Next time, try and appear that you are even slightly interested in other people's thoughts.
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"But God demonstrates his own love for us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us." Romans 5:8
Sinners are dead people! Dead people don't make choices!
"But God, being rich in mercy, because of his great love with which he loved us, 5 even though we were dead in transgressions, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you are saved!—" Eph 2:4-5
Only God can save and raise up dead people!
As for "free will," please feel free to post the verses with that phrase in it! I won't hold my breath waiting, since I have read the Bible enough to know that the words are not there!
Sinners are dead people! Dead people don't make choices!
"But God, being rich in mercy, because of his great love with which he loved us, 5 even though we were dead in transgressions, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you are saved!—" Eph 2:4-5
Only God can save and raise up dead people!
As for "free will," please feel free to post the verses with that phrase in it! I won't hold my breath waiting, since I have read the Bible enough to know that the words are not there!
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So you know, here's the better translation sis:
1Co 1:30 He is the source of your life in Christ Jesus, whom God made our wisdom and our righteousness and sanctification and redemption.
People love to use the translation that says " BUT BY HIS DOING "... yeah... it fits their theology. Whatever! They wanna claim God chose SOME to be saved while not giving the choice to others.
1Co 1:30 He is the source of your life in Christ Jesus, whom God made our wisdom and our righteousness and sanctification and redemption.
People love to use the translation that says " BUT BY HIS DOING "... yeah... it fits their theology. Whatever! They wanna claim God chose SOME to be saved while not giving the choice to others.
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The Holy Spirit calls many but only those who do not resist the conviction of the Holy Spirit and embrace the Way of salvation are chosen..
Matthew 22: KJV
14 "For many are called, but few are chosen."
God has foreknown since the foundation of creation who will respond to the moving of His Holy Spirit and who will resist and reject that conviction.. And from this foreknowledge He already knows all the people He is going to transform on the day of the reasurection into the image of our Glorious LORD Jesus Christ..
Romans 8: KJV
29 "For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren."
Matthew 22: KJV
14 "For many are called, but few are chosen."
God has foreknown since the foundation of creation who will respond to the moving of His Holy Spirit and who will resist and reject that conviction.. And from this foreknowledge He already knows all the people He is going to transform on the day of the reasurection into the image of our Glorious LORD Jesus Christ..
Romans 8: KJV
29 "For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren."
When I first was coming to Christ it seemed like I was making all the choices and doing all the work.
But when I looked back I realized I could never make that many SUPER good choices all in a row to lead myself to needing and wanting the Lord Jesus Christ.
But He still brought me to Himself in a way that wouldn't hurt my fragile feelings and belief in "free will".
Why did I start reading the bible in the first place?
Why did I feel compelled to start doing the things it said to do?
Why was I praying to the Lord Jesus Christ even before I knew He was God?
It's like Eternally Grateful said. We make the choice for Christ when we are weak. I would say we make the choice when there are no more choices to make. The Lord Jesus Christ is the only option available.
And even then I didn't understand the magnitude of what I would be given in Christ. I had to be shown what He does for us.
But when I looked back I realized I could never make that many SUPER good choices all in a row to lead myself to needing and wanting the Lord Jesus Christ.
But He still brought me to Himself in a way that wouldn't hurt my fragile feelings and belief in "free will".
Why did I start reading the bible in the first place?
Why did I feel compelled to start doing the things it said to do?
Why was I praying to the Lord Jesus Christ even before I knew He was God?
It's like Eternally Grateful said. We make the choice for Christ when we are weak. I would say we make the choice when there are no more choices to make. The Lord Jesus Christ is the only option available.
And even then I didn't understand the magnitude of what I would be given in Christ. I had to be shown what He does for us.
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IMHO?
Just because God knows the end, from the beginning? Doesn't mean that it is "His WILL", that it happens that way!
I don't recall God saying, like He had concerning other things?
Ezekiel 24
14 I the Lord have spoken it: it shall come to pass, and I will do it; I will not go back, neither will I spare, neither will I repent; according to thy ways, and according to thy doings, shall they judge thee, saith the Lord God.
Jeremiah 4
27 For thus hath the Lord said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.
28 For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black; because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.
This is the reason, that just a wee bit of knowledge, in the wrong hands? CAN be a dangerous thing! As indeed, it has become!
Because, His children, have long since reconciled themselves, and CAVED in, to believing this end! And, living their whole christian lives in a cowardise fashion! Meaning? NO "Push back!" (as in) "I'm not going to war against powers and principalities, nor forces of darkness, nor spiritual wickedness in high places!" "NOTHING, I DO?" "Is going to change ANYTHING!" "It SEZ SO, in the back of the book!" "God sez, is going to be this way?" "SO BE IT!" "I'm just going to believe, and be RAPTURED!"
Doesn't that make these people, JUST AS COMPLICIT, with the ones whom they believe, are "the enemy?"
Just because God knows the end, from the beginning? Doesn't mean that it is "His WILL", that it happens that way!
I don't recall God saying, like He had concerning other things?
Ezekiel 24
14 I the Lord have spoken it: it shall come to pass, and I will do it; I will not go back, neither will I spare, neither will I repent; according to thy ways, and according to thy doings, shall they judge thee, saith the Lord God.
Jeremiah 4
27 For thus hath the Lord said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.
28 For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black; because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.
This is the reason, that just a wee bit of knowledge, in the wrong hands? CAN be a dangerous thing! As indeed, it has become!
Because, His children, have long since reconciled themselves, and CAVED in, to believing this end! And, living their whole christian lives in a cowardise fashion! Meaning? NO "Push back!" (as in) "I'm not going to war against powers and principalities, nor forces of darkness, nor spiritual wickedness in high places!" "NOTHING, I DO?" "Is going to change ANYTHING!" "It SEZ SO, in the back of the book!" "God sez, is going to be this way?" "SO BE IT!" "I'm just going to believe, and be RAPTURED!"
Doesn't that make these people, JUST AS COMPLICIT, with the ones whom they believe, are "the enemy?"
before or after He foreknew?
i.e. did He know what He was creating
i.e. did He know what He was creating
And annonced? "IT'S WHAT'S FOR DINNER!"
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E
Mal 1: 1The burden of the word of the Lord to Israel by Malachi.
I have loved you,” says the Lord.
“Yet you say, ‘In what way have You loved us?’
Was not Esau Jacob’s brother?”
Says the Lord.
“Yet Jacob I have loved;
3 But Esau I have hated,
And laid waste his mountains and his heritage
For the jackals of the wilderness.”
4 Even though Edom has said,
“We have been impoverished,
But we will return and build the desolate places,”
Thus says the Lord of hosts:
“They may build, but I will throw down;
They shall be called the Territory of Wickedness,
And the people against whom the Lord will have indignation forever.
5 Your eyes shall see,
And you shall say,
‘The Lord is magnified beyond the border of Israel.’
Here we see the context of Pauls quote of this passage in romans 9
God is not talking about two kids (jacob or Esau) he is talking to the nation of Israel about 1500 years after they had died.
God told Isreal. I love you
Israel asks back, but what about Esau (Edom)
Gods reply?
Jacob (You Israel) I have loved, But Esau (edom) I have hated (literally loved less)
If Malachi is not talking about two kids, Paul can not be talking about 2 kids. So to say in romans 9 God condemned Esau and saved or chose Jacob before they were born, would be taking the whole saying out of context. Not only this, There is no proof in Genesis Esau was even lost or will be in hell. Most likely he as well as his brother Jacob (who was acutally quite anrighteous dude his whole life) will most likely both be in heaven. And we will all be laughing at the conversation we re having now with them when we all meet.
I have loved you,” says the Lord.
“Yet you say, ‘In what way have You loved us?’
Was not Esau Jacob’s brother?”
Says the Lord.
“Yet Jacob I have loved;
3 But Esau I have hated,
And laid waste his mountains and his heritage
For the jackals of the wilderness.”
4 Even though Edom has said,
“We have been impoverished,
But we will return and build the desolate places,”
Thus says the Lord of hosts:
“They may build, but I will throw down;
They shall be called the Territory of Wickedness,
And the people against whom the Lord will have indignation forever.
5 Your eyes shall see,
And you shall say,
‘The Lord is magnified beyond the border of Israel.’
Here we see the context of Pauls quote of this passage in romans 9
God is not talking about two kids (jacob or Esau) he is talking to the nation of Israel about 1500 years after they had died.
God told Isreal. I love you
Israel asks back, but what about Esau (Edom)
Gods reply?
Jacob (You Israel) I have loved, But Esau (edom) I have hated (literally loved less)
If Malachi is not talking about two kids, Paul can not be talking about 2 kids. So to say in romans 9 God condemned Esau and saved or chose Jacob before they were born, would be taking the whole saying out of context. Not only this, There is no proof in Genesis Esau was even lost or will be in hell. Most likely he as well as his brother Jacob (who was acutally quite anrighteous dude his whole life) will most likely both be in heaven. And we will all be laughing at the conversation we re having now with them when we all meet.
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