POLL: The Deity of Christ

[purgedconscience]

But Jesus has always existed, along with the Father and the Spirit, so He's not begotten. Besides I don't use the KJV. It's very different to call Jesus the Son of God and to call angels sons of God. Yes, the capital letter was for good reason. It's quite common to say Jesus is God's one and only Son. No harm.

I agree with you that Jesus has always existed along with the Father and the Spirit, but the word begotten, when used in relation to Christ, isn't used to denote begetting as in giving birth to a son. Instead it is used in relation to Christ's resurrection from the dead:

Acts chapter 13 verses 29 thru 33

And when they had fulfilled all that was written of him, they took him down from the tree, and laid him in a sepulchre.
But God raised him from the dead:
And he was seen many days of them which came up with him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are his witnesses unto the people.
And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that the promise which was made unto the fathers,
God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

Jesus was begotten on the day in which He was raised from the dead in a glorified body and in this sense He is most definitely the only begotten Son of God. He is not God's only Son, though. Again, both angels and Christians are referred to as sons of God in scripture and Jesus Himself is not ashamed to call us His brothers and sisters as sons and daughters of God ourselves.

Like I said, I'm not trying to nitpick. Certain words and terms have great significance in the Bible and begotten is one of them as it pertains to Christ.

 

[p_rehbein]

I agree with you that Jesus has always existed along with the Father and the Spirit, but the word begotten, when used in relation to Christ, isn't used to denote begetting as in giving birth to a son. Instead it is used in relation to Christ's resurrection from the dead:

Acts chapter 13 verses 29 thru 33

And when they had fulfilled all that was written of him, they took him down from the tree, and laid him in a sepulchre.
But God raised him from the dead:
And he was seen many days of them which came up with him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are his witnesses unto the people.
And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that the promise which was made unto the fathers,
God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

Jesus was begotten on the day in which He was raised from the dead in a glorified body and in this sense He is most definitely the only begotten Son of God. He is not God's only Son, though. Again, both angels and Christians are referred to as sons of God in scripture and Jesus Himself is not ashamed to call us His brothers and sisters as sons and daughters of God ourselves.

Like I said, I'm not trying to nitpick. Certain words and terms have great significance in the Bible and begotten is one of them as it pertains to Christ.

Scripture first:

John 10:14) I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
15 .) As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
16 .) And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
17 .) Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
18 .) No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

Just FYI.

Now........this part of your comment is very misleading, or, could be to new believers:

He is not God's only Son, though. Again, both angels and Christians are referred to as sons of God in scripture and Jesus Himself is not ashamed to call us His brothers and sisters as sons and daughters of God ourselves.

We can not, and certainly should not EVER compare or equate Jesus Christ as being just another of God's creations as are angels and mankind, and this is what your comment (intended or not) would suggest.

[h=1]John
1[/h]
1 .) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 .) The same was in the beginning with God.
3 .) All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 .) In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5 .) And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

That Living Word, Jesus Christ who is I Am became flesh and came down to dwell among men. He IS our Lord and Savior, and our reverence of Him should always be as our Lord and Savior.

(my thoughts)

 

[Tintin]

I agree with you that Jesus has always existed along with the Father and the Spirit, but the word begotten, when used in relation to Christ, isn't used to denote begetting as in giving birth to a son. Instead it is used in relation to Christ's resurrection from the dead:

Acts chapter 13 verses 29 thru 33

And when they had fulfilled all that was written of him, they took him down from the tree, and laid him in a sepulchre.
But God raised him from the dead:
And he was seen many days of them which came up with him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are his witnesses unto the people.
And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that the promise which was made unto the fathers,
God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

Jesus was begotten on the day in which He was raised from the dead in a glorified body and in this sense He is most definitely the only begotten Son of God. He is not God's only Son, though. Again, both angels and Christians are referred to as sons of God in scripture and Jesus Himself is not ashamed to call us His brothers and sisters as sons and daughters of God ourselves.

Like I said, I'm not trying to nitpick. Certain words and terms have great significance in the Bible and begotten is one of them as it pertains to Christ.

I know what you're saying, brother. But many false teachings have sprung from a misunderstanding of the word 'begotten'. That's one of many reasons why the KJV isn't so great a Bible anymore. It's archaic writing allows for maximum confusion.

 

[purgedconscience]

Scripture first:

John 10:14) I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
15 .) As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
16 .) And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
17 .) Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
18 .) No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

Just FYI.

I'm all for scripture first, but didn't you just confirm what I said?

When Jesus said This commandment have I received of my Father in relation to having the power to lay down His life and then take it up again, what commandment was He referring to? He most definitely was assured that His Father would beget Him or raise Him from the dead based upon the conversation which they had and which is recorded for us in Psalm 2 verse 7:

I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

Read the Psalm in context. The LORD, God the Father, said unto Jesus, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee and Paul said that this begetting was fulfilled in the day in which God raised Jesus from the dead. As such, I'm not sure why you posted what you did, so hopefully you can clarify. I'm guessing that it's just some sort of communication gap between us in that we both fully believe in the Deity of Christ.

Now........this part of your comment is very misleading, or, could be to new believers:

He is not God's only Son, though. Again, both angels and Christians are referred to as sons of God in scripture and Jesus Himself is not ashamed to call us His brothers and sisters as sons and daughters of God ourselves.

We can not, and certainly should not EVER compare or equate Jesus Christ as being just another of God's creations as are angels and mankind, and this is what your comment (intended or not) would suggest.

John
1


1 .) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 .) The same was in the beginning with God.
3 .) All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 .) In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5 .) And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

That Living Word, Jesus Christ who is I Am became flesh and came down to dwell among men. He IS our Lord and Savior, and our reverence of Him should always be as our Lord and Savior.

(my thoughts)

I never suggested that Jesus was just another of God's creations so I don't know where you got that from. Again, I'm guessing that it's just some sort of communication gap between us. What I said is that Jesus always existed as God and that I believe that He became the Son of God at His Incarnation. I never said that He was created. He is, in fact, the Creator Himself.

 

[michael56]

P

Can you then explain HOW you reconcile these passages?

Numbers 23

19"God is not a man, that He should lie, Nor a son of man, that He should repent; Has He said, and will He not do it? Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good?

Matthew 17

[SUP]13 [/SUP]When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say the Son of Man is?”

[SUP]14 [/SUP]They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”
[SUP]15 [/SUP]“But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”

[SUP]16 [/SUP]Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”

[SUP]17 [/SUP]Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. [SUP]18 [/SUP]And I tell you that you are Peter,[SUP][b][/SUP] and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades[SUP][c][/SUP] will not overcome it.[SUP]19 [/SUP]I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be[SUP][d][/SUP] bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be[SUP][e][/SUP] loosed in heaven.” [SUP]20 [/SUP]Then he ordered his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Messiah.


Jesus is also the SON OF GOD which by default does make Him divine.

Though they will try to explain their fallible logic will let them down. It is hard for the ego of man to admit it is beyond him to understand what man was not meant to fully understand. The logical mind cannot understand or work out the spiritual. But it can condemn the innocent
Great scriptures btw

 

[dcontroversal]

Yes obviously.....anyone who rejects this is exercising the spirit of the antichrist......

 

[Elin]

Can you then explain HOW you reconcile these passages?

Does Jn 1:1, 13 not clear it up for you?

". . .and the Word was God. . .The Word became flesh and dwelt amongst us."

Numbers 23

19"God is not a man, that He should lie, Nor a son of man, that He should repent; Has He said, and will He not do it? Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good?

Well, in light of Jn 1:1, 13, we know a couple of things. . .

First of all, three divine persons were not revealed in the OT.
God there was the Father--not the Son, nor the Holy Spirit.

Secondly, the context of Nu 23:19 is a statement of contrast--to Balaam, who was constantly shifting, lying, equivocating, changing. It is not a statement of God's essence, but rather a statement showing the distinction between God and fallen man.

Matthew 17

[SUP]13 [/SUP]When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say the Son of Man is?”

[SUP]14 [/SUP]They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”
[SUP]15 [/SUP]“But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”

[SUP]16 [/SUP]Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”

[SUP]17 [/SUP]Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. [SUP]18 [/SUP]And I tell you that you are Peter,[SUP][b][/SUP] and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades[SUP][c][/SUP] will not overcome it.[SUP]19 [/SUP]I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be[SUP][d][/SUP] bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be[SUP][e][/SUP] loosed in heaven.” [SUP]20 [/SUP]Then he ordered his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Messiah.

In light of Jn 1:1, 13, we see that the issue here is Messiahship, not divinity.
Peter simply affirmed that Jesus was the Messiah, with no inference regarding Jesus' divinity.

Jesus is also the SON OF GOD which by default does make Him divine.

Remember, the Jews understood exactly what Jesus was saying when he made the following claims,
which is why they accused him of blasphemy and had him murdered (Mk 2:3-7; Jn 6:41-42, 10:30-33;
5:18; 8:58-59; 19:7). In the light of Jn 1:1, 13, consider his claims that:

• He came from heaven (Jn 3;13, 6:38, 42, 62)
• and was sent by God (Jn 5:36-40, 10:36, 13:3, 16:28)
• to die as a ransom for the sins of many (Mt 20:28, 26:28, Jn 10:11),
• with power to forgive sin (Mt 9:2-6),
• to conquer Satan (Jn 12:31; Lk 10:18; Mk 1:23-26, 5:6-13),
• to speak for God (Jn 7:16, 8:25-28, 12:44-45, 49-50, 14:10, Lk 9:35, 10:16),
• and to judge all mankind (Jn 5:22, 27, 8:26, 12:48, Mt 25:31-33),
• as the exclusive way to God (Jn 14:6; Ac 4:12) - excludes all other ways,
• the source of all truth and life (Jn 1:4, 5:25-26, 6:39-40),
• the decisive factor in the eternal destiny of every man (Jn 3:18-19, 36, 5:24, 6:40, 8:24-25),
• possessing all authority (power) in heaven and earth (Mt 26:64, 28:18; Lk 10:22, Jn 13:3, 13),
• equal with God (Jn 5:18, 8:19, 12:44-45, 14:7-9, 16:15, 17:10); i.e., doing the same as God does (Jn 5:19)
  • as the Father works, so the Son works (miracles) - (Jn 5:17)
  • as the Father gives life, so the Son gives life (Jn 5:21)
  • as the Father is Judge, so the Son is Judge (Jn 5:22)
  • as the Father is to be honored, so the Son is to be honored (Jn 5:23)
  • as the Father has (eternal) life in himself, so the Son has (eternal) life in himself (Jn 5:26)
  • as the Father sends with authority and power, so the Son sends with authority and power (Jn 20:21)
  • as the Father confers the kingdom, so the Son confers the kingdom (Lk 22:29)
  • as the Father is Lawgiver, so the Son is Lawgiver (Mt 5:23-47, 12:7-8, 19:9, 21:23-27, chp 23)
• empowering the apostles to speak for him, as well as for God (Lk 10:16, Jn 13:20)
• and to recall and understand all things correctly (Jn 14:26, 16:13-15, Lk 24:48-49).

And remember, Jesus said he was speaking exactly what God told him to say
when he made all these claims about himself (Jn 12:49).

Likewise, his name is Emmanuel which is "God with us." (Mt 1:23)
Jesus is saying in these claims that he is no less than God.

And that is precisely the way the apostles understood him,
and precisely what John shows in the opening of his gospel.

The NT is very clear regarding the divinity of Jesus.

 

[Elin]

I agree with you that Jesus has always existed along with the Father and the Spirit, but the word begotten, when used in relation to Christ, isn't used to denote begetting as in giving birth to a son. Instead it is used in relation to Christ's resurrection from the dead:

Acts chapter 13 verses 29 thru 33

And when they had fulfilled all that was written of him, they took him down from the tree, and laid him in a sepulchre.
But God raised him from the dead:
And he was seen many days of them which came up with him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are his witnesses unto the people.
And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that the promise which was made unto the fathers,
God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

Jesus was begotten on the day in which He was raised from the dead in a glorified body

Actually, Jesus was proven to always have been the begotten Son of God by his resurrection.

Keeping in mind that God promised David that God would be Solomon's father
and Solomon would be God's (begotten) son (2Sa 7:13-14),
which familial language in the ancient near East expressed the relationship between a great king
and one of his subject kings, who ruled by his authority and owed him allegiance,
and being the special relationship God promised to maintain with the descendants of David's throne,
marking him as the one God had chosen and enthroned to rule in his name as
the official representative of God's rule over his people, and
ultimately fulfilled in Jesus Christ (Mt 1:1, Mk 1:11; Heb 15).

and in this sense He is most definitely the only begotten Son of God. He is not God's only Son, though. Again, both angels and Christians are referred to as sons of God in scripture and Jesus Himself is not ashamed to call us His brothers and sisters as sons and daughters of God ourselves.

Like I said, I'm not trying to nitpick. Certain words and terms have great significance in the Bible and begotten is one of them as it pertains to Christ.

 

[purgedconscience]

Actually, Jesus was proven to always have been the begotten Son of God by his resurrection.

That's not what scripture says.

Romans chapter 1 verses 1 thru 4 which you're alluding to says absolutely nothing in relation to Jesus allegedly always having been the begotten Son of God:

Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,
(Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)
Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

As you can see, it merely says that Jesus was declared to be the Son of God with power by the resurrection from the dead and not a single word about Him allegedly always having been the begotten Son of God. Also consider that this same Paul is the one who preached that Jesus was begotten on the day in which God raised Him from the dead as recorded in Acts chapter 13 verses 29 thru 33, especially verses 32 and 33, which was a fulfillment of what had been prophesied in Psalm 2 verse 7:

And when they had fulfilled all that was written of him, they took him down from the tree, and laid him in a sepulchre.
But God raised him from the dead:
And he was seen many days of them which came up with him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are his witnesses unto the people.
And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that the promise which was made unto the fathers,
God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

Keeping in mind that God promised David that God would be Solomon's father
and Solomon would be God's (begotten) son (2Sa 7:13-14),
which familial language in the ancient near East expressed the relationship between a great king
and one of his subject kings, who ruled by his authority and owed him allegiance,
and being the special relationship God promised to maintain with the descendants of David's throne,
marking him as the one God had chosen and enthroned to rule in his name as
the official representative of God's rule over his people, and
ultimately fulfilled in Jesus Christ (Mt 1:1, Mk 1:11; Heb 15).

God's promise was actually made in regard to Jesus Christ as is recorded in Hebrews chapter 1 verse 5:

For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

Yes, this was the fulfillment of what had been prophesied or promised in II Samuel chapter 7 verses 13 and 14a:

He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever.
I will be his father, and he shall be my son.

 

[DesiredHaven]

Says God fulfilled the that second Psalm (in that) he raised Jesus Christ up

Acts 13:33 God hath **fulfilled** the same unto us their children, **in that** he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

Firstborn from the dead


Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning , the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Firstbegotten of the dead

Rev 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

Heres that Psalm

Psalm 2:7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

And declared to be the Son of God (as manifested) by the resurrection from the dead

Romans 1:4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead

Speaks of it here, He is the answer to this question

Psalm 30:4 Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended?who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell?

Who was with the Father before the world was

John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Christ didnt glorify himself, God the Father did (and in the way expressed here in Hebrews)

Heb 5:5 So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son,to day have I begotten thee.

Just as here

Heb 5:6 As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

The Word that become flesh, had his days in the flesh

Heb 5:7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared


Heb 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered


Heb 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Heb 5:10 Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.

Heb 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

Heb 5:11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.

Heb 8:1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;

Heb 8:2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man

Heb 8:2 For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.

Heb 8:4 For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:

Heb 8:6 But now hath he **obtained** a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

Made lower then the angels for the suffering of death itself

Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

Bringing many sons unto glory

Heb 2:10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

These are all of one

Heb 2:11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,

The word was with God and was God, and the word was made flesh (lower then the angels) for the suffering of death, begotten from the dead (by his resurrection) bringing many sins to glory, but he will always be the first, born of promise (not of a man lying with a woman) and her firstborn (according to the flesh) and firstborn of the dead (of many brethren following after) according to the Spirit)

 

[DesiredHaven]

And this should not read

The word was with God and was God, and the word was made flesh (lower then the angels) for the suffering of death, begotten from the dead (by his resurrection) bringing many sins to glory, but he will always be the first, born of promise (not of a man lying with a woman) and her firstborn (according to the flesh) and firstborn of the dead (of many brethren following after) according to the Spirit)

Many sons to glory, not sins

 

[Elin]

Actually, Jesus was proven to always have been the begotten Son of God by his resurrection.

That's not what scripture says.

". . .and the Word was God. . .The Word became flesh. . ." (Jn 1:1, 13)

 

[purgedconscience]

". . .and the Word was God. . .The Word became flesh. . ." (Jn 1:1, 13)

I agree with that, but it says nothing about Jesus allegedly always having been the begotten Son of God.

Was Jesus always God?

Yes, He was.

Did Jesus leave the glories of heaven and come to this earth in the form of a man?

Yes, He did.

That's all that those verses which you just posted say.

Again, according to scripture, Jesus was begotten on the day in which He was raised from the dead.

 

[Elin]

I agree with that, but it says nothing about Jesus allegedly always having been the begotten Son of God.

Was Jesus always God?

Yes, He was.

Jesus, the man, did not always exist.

God the Son always existed.

The always-God the Son became flesh in the not-always-Jesus of Nazareth.

Did Jesus leave the glories of heaven and come to this earth in the form of a man?

Yes, He did.

The flesh of God the Son did not abide in the glory of heaven prior to being born of a virgin.

Again, according to scripture,
Jesus was begotten on the day in which He was raised from the dead.

Jesus was the Son of God made flesh from the moment of his conception (Jn 1:1, 13).

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

The phrase "God the Son" teaches confusion by those who do not truly know the Son.

There is only One God the Father. Think about this. How does it sound if you were to say the same phrase but in this manner...."Father the Son" Silly right? That is because a Son comes forth from a Father, just as God's Word comes forth from His bosom as written.

So as not to teach confusion the proper wording is Jesus Christ is the Son of God being the very Word of God. Hopefully some will understand.

 

[Elin]

The phrase "God the Son" teaches confusion by those who do not truly know the Son.

There is only One God the Father. Think about this. How does it sound if you were to say the same phrase but in this manner...."Father the Son" Silly right? That is because a Son comes forth from a Father, just as God's Word comes forth from His bosom as written.

So as not to teach confusion the proper wording is Jesus Christ is the Son of God being the very Word of God. Hopefully some will understand.

Actually, the Father is God, the Son is God and the Holy Spirit is God. . .God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are the new covenant revelation.

 

[purgedconscience]

Jesus, the man, did not always exist.

I never said that He did. I said that Jesus has always been God and not that Jesus has always been a man. Now, if you want to argue that He wasn't always known by the name of Jesus, but as the Word, then I might agree. At the same time, however, seeing how Jesus' name means Jehovah is salvation, it can probably be argued that His name always applied.

God the Son always existed.

The Word Who later became flesh in the fullness of time in the Person of Jesus Christ always existed. "God the Son" is your invention.

The always-God the Son became flesh in the not-always-Jesus of Nazareth.

Whatever that means.

The flesh of God the Son did not abide in the glory of heaven prior to being born of a virgin.

I never said that it did. Is there a reason for these comments? Are you reading what I type or just talking to yourself?

Jesus was the Son of God made flesh from the moment of his conception (Jn 1:1, 13).

And He wasn't begotten until the day in which He was resurrected from the dead, just as the Bible teaches.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Actually, the Father is God, the Son is God and the Holy Spirit is God. . .God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are the new covenant revelation.

The Father, the Word (Son), and the Holy Spirit are United as One. But Jesus spoke the way he did concerning the Father being greater than himself for a reason. Rewording scripture teaches confusion, Jesus Christ in scripture is shown as the Son of God for a good reason.

1 John 2:23
Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

It is important to acknowledge Jesus Christ as the Son of God. Hopefully some will understand why.

 

[p_rehbein]

God the Father: God OF man

God the Son: God AS man

Have to first understand this.......then remember that the "flesh and bone" appearance of man that God the Son took upon Himself was the "begotten" part of God the Son. Try to focus on Who was "indwelling" in this flesh and bone man form. That should lead one to understand.......

And the Word (Jesus God) was made flesh (God the Son)

Anyway, it works for me...........and it also helps that the Christian Faith is just that a Faith! We accept ALL of God's written word, and Living Word by FAITH. Saved by GRACE through FAITH. Whosoever BELIEVETH.........Thy FAITH has made thee whole..........and on and on........without FAITH, one can not enter into His rest, or ABIDE in Him, or even attain salvation in my opinion. How can someone who does not believe, have faith in, receive GRACE?

 

[p_rehbein]

The Father, the Word (Son), and the Holy Spirit are United as One. But Jesus spoke the way he did concerning the Father being greater than himself for a reason. Rewording scripture teaches confusion, Jesus Christ in scripture is shown as the Son of God for a good reason.

1 John 2:23
Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

It is important to acknowledge Jesus Christ as the Son of God. Hopefully some will understand why.

No........well, just no........

who said? I and my Father ARE ONE? Jesus, God the Son said this

who said? before Abraham was, I Am? Jesus, God the Son said this

who said? If you have seen ME you have seen the Father? Jesus, God the Son said this

who said? 3) Strengthen ye the weak hands, and confirm the feeble knees.
4 .) Say to them that are of a fearful heart, Be strong, fear not: behold, your God will come with vengeance, even God with a recompence; he will come and save you.
5 .) Then the eyes of the blind shall be opened, and the ears of the deaf shall be unstopped.
6 .) Then shall the lame man leap as an hart, and the tongue of the dumb sing: for in the wilderness shall waters break out, and streams in the desert.

Well, ok, Isaiah said this, but he was prophesying of the coming of Jesus............God the Son