Ponder the Parallel...

[Cameron143]

The

When we get baptize in JESUS name we go into HIM.

Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

When JESUS fills us with the Holy Ghost HE comes into us.

There is no difference between being filled with and being indwelt.

The Spirit baptizes an individual into Christ...1 Corinthians 12:13. Water baptism doesn't place on into Christ. A physical act doesn't produce a spiritual reality.

The command to be filled with the Spirit means this is something we do. We can't place ourselves into Christ. We can be being filled with the Spirit.

 

[Cameron143]

Yes it is.

The point was that Christ is continually knocking on the hearts of believers, but that doesn't mean He did so for unbelievers.

 

[SomeDisciple]

So, in the greek; the "born" is used of fathers begetting sons in Jesus' genealogy; so, it's not talking about what we think of in terms of proceeding from a woman's womb. You have to be "begotten again" of a new father is what it is saying.

I know some O-P's like to say "the Church is our mother"; but neither Jesus nor the Apostles made this analogy... I can see how that might be attached to baptismal-regeneration if you think of water baptism as a "womb"; but H20 doesn't beget spirit; spirit begets spirit; so when you are receiving the Holy Ghost; receiving Jesus; that IS you being begotten again as a son of God- now naturally, if you are not water baptized at that time, you're going to want to get baptized; but simply because that is what Jesus would do, not because God needs a water-womb to bring forth a new spiritual man.

 

[PaulThomson]

It amazes me that you can actually think that makes sense. Well done.

Well. It was a bit obtuse, because I was using the term "spiritually dead" which was used by someone else but I don't see "spiritually dead" in the Bible itself. My point was that the people the poster calls "spiritually dead" are doing "things on the spiritual plane", so they cannot really be "spiritually dead". i.e. have dead spirits, in the way a physically dead person's physical body is dead.

The language "spiritually dead" is not biblical, and those who use it do not mean by it what the words actually mean, which makes clear communication rather difficult, because someone can just fill the unbiblical expression wth whatever meaning they wish to conjure up in their own head and then insert it into the Bible wherever they find convenient.

 

[NightTwister]

Well. It was a bit obtuse, because I was using the term "spiritually dead" which was used by someone else but I don't see "spiritually dead" in the Bible itself. My point was that the people the poster calls "spiritually dead" are doing "things on the spiritual plane", so they cannot really be "spiritually dead". i.e. have dead spirits, in the way a physically dead person's physical body is dead.

The language "spiritually dead" is not biblical, and those who use it do not mean by it what the words actually mean, which makes clear communication rather difficult, because someone can just fill the unbiblical expression wth whatever meaning they wish to conjure up in their own head and then insert it into the Bible wherever they find convenient.

Dead men don't wear plaid.

 

[Ouch]

You think Jesus needed saving?

JESUS is our example, anything he does we should do.

John baptizing HIM made HIS path straight, as it does when we get baptized.

 

[Ouch]

The

The Spirit baptizes an individual into Christ...1 Corinthians 12:13. Water baptism doesn't place on into Christ. A physical act doesn't produce a spiritual reality.

The command to be filled with the Spirit means this is something we do. We can't place ourselves into Christ. We can be being filled with the Spirit.

What do you do just say something and just grab a scripture that has the word spirit in it and it's suppose to make since?

HOW DOES this say the Spirit baptizes an individual into Christ????

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Notice: When JESUS fills us we are one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles....

WHERE DID THIS COME FROM???

The command to be filled with the Spirit means this is something we do. We can't place ourselves into Christ. We can be being filled with the Spirit.

Be great if you used HIS word to back up your thoughts.

I just showed you Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

Show me where it says that about HIS spirit.

 

[Wansvic]

Eh? Why are you questioning whether or not Scripture is true???

I was surprised by the attitude. I asked, "Have you considered if what you say were true, those who are dead in sin would not be able to respond to Jesus' initial calling?
"Behold, I stand at the door and knock: if ANY man hear my voice AND open the door I WILL COME IN TO HIM..." (Rev. 3:20)

I did not question the accuracy of scripture, I questioned your understanding of it. I believe that's a customary practice in discussions.

 

[Cameron143]

JESUS is our example, anything he does we should do.

John baptizing HIM made HIS path straight, as it does when we get baptized.

I'm not against baptism. We are commanded to do so.

Jesus was a carpenter. Should we all become carpenters? Wear sandals?

Jesus path was made straight by baptism? My Bible says Jesus was baptized to fulfill all righteousness. John making paths straight was a spiritual call to prepare people's hearts for the coming Messiah.

 

[Cameron143]

What do you do just say something and just grab a scripture that has the word spirit in it and it's suppose to make since?

HOW DOES this say the Spirit baptizes an individual into Christ????

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Notice: When JESUS fills us we are one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles....

WHERE DID THIS COME FROM???

The command to be filled with the Spirit means this is something we do. We can't place ourselves into Christ. We can be being filled with the Spirit.

Be great if you used HIS word to back up your thoughts.

I just showed you Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

Show me where it says that about HIS spirit.

You conflate water baptism with being baptized into Christ. Where do you find water spoken of in Romans 6. It speaks of being baptized into Christ, but no mention is made of water.

1 Corinthians 12:13 doesn't mention Jesus filling anyone. It speaks of the Spirit placing believers into the body of Christ. Again, nothing about water.

You have water on the brain.

 

[Ouch]

You conflate water baptism with being baptized into Christ. Where do you find water spoken of in Romans 6. It speaks of being baptized into Christ, but no mention is made of water.

1 Corinthians 12:13 doesn't mention Jesus filling anyone. It speaks of the Spirit placing believers into the body of Christ. Again, nothing about water.

You have water on the brain.

It is, do you know it's for?

If you like, but HE didn't tell us to do so.

Matthew 3:15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.

Mark 1:3 The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.

It says "Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight."

He may have been talking to others but it's clear it was to make HIS path stright.

Romans 6, when you are burired under dirt you can't breath, same with water.

1 cor, yep nothing about water.

Being baprtized in JESUS name to remove our sins is something we have to do.

JESUS filling us with HIS spirit like in Acts 2:4 is something HE has to do.

So being born of the spirit has nothing to do with water.

Satan's plan, keep them out of the water, if they get in the water keep JESUS name out of it.

 

[Cameron143]

It is, do you know it's for?

If you like, but HE didn't tell us to do so.

Matthew 3:15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.

Mark 1:3 The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.

It says "Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight."

He may have been talking to others but it's clear it was to make HIS path stright.

Romans 6, when you are burired under dirt you can't breath, same with water.

1 cor, yep nothing about water.

Being baprtized in JESUS name to remove our sins is something we have to do.

JESUS filling us with HIS spirit like in Acts 2:4 is something HE has to do.

So being born of the spirit has nothing to do with water.

Satan's plan, keep them out of the water, if they get in the water keep JESUS name out of it.

You're becoming a little difficult to follow. Appreciate the discussion. Grace and peace.

 

[TruthDefender]

Well. It was a bit obtuse, because I was using the term "spiritually dead" which was used by someone else but I don't see "spiritually dead" in the Bible itself. My point was that the people the poster calls "spiritually dead" are doing "things on the spiritual plane", so they cannot really be "spiritually dead". i.e. have dead spirits, in the way a physically dead person's physical body is dead.

The language "spiritually dead" is not biblical, and those who use it do not mean by it what the words actually mean, which makes clear communication rather difficult, because someone can just fill the unbiblical expression wth whatever meaning they wish to conjure up in their own head and then insert it into the Bible wherever they find convenient.

I believe it comes from various verses, and there are many such verses, such as:

“For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8‬:‭6‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

“For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6‬:‭23‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

 

[PaulThomson]

I believe it comes from various verses, and there are many such verses, such as:

“For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8‬:‭6‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

“For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6‬:‭23‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Rom. 8:6 simply says, "For to be carnally minded - death; but to be spiritually minded - life and peace." Jesus says elsewhere -
Mat 7:13
“Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it.
Mat 7:14
“Because[fn] narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.


Rom. 8:6 could be understood as: "For to be carnally minded leads to death; but to be spiritually minded leads to life and peace,
At the end of a sinful faithless carnally minded journey, one arrives at the second death. But the gift of God is a life through Jesus Christ that does not end in the second physical death.

Rom.6:23 simply says that in the end, the soul that sins will die the second death as its due recompense, unless aeonous life is inherited from Jesus Christ by putting faith in Him.

One does not need to read into these texts "spiritual death", whatever one defines that as, for "death".

 

[Ouch]

You're becoming a little difficult to follow. Appreciate the discussion. Grace and peace.

Do you understand that being baptized for remission of our sins is something we have to do?

Do you understand that when we are filled with HIS spirit is something JESUS does?

 

[TruthDefender]

Rom. 8:6 simply says, "For to be carnally minded - death; but to be spiritually minded - life and peace." Jesus says elsewhere -
Mat 7:13
“Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it.
Mat 7:14
“Because[fn] narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.


Rom. 8:6 could be understood as: "For to be carnally minded leads to death; but to be spiritually minded leads to life and peace,
At the end of a sinful faithless carnally minded journey, one arrives at the second death. But the gift of God is a life through Jesus Christ that does not end in the second physical death.

Rom.6:23 simply says that in the end, the soul that sins will die the second death as its due recompense, unless aeonous life is inherited from Jesus Christ by putting faith in Him.

One does not need to read into these texts "spiritual death", whatever one defines that as, for "death".

Carnal mindedness is worldliness and this is spiritual death. People in the world are not saved, so they are spiritually dead; they need to be awakened.

 

[PaulThomson]

Carnal mindedness is worldliness and this is spiritual death. People in the world are not saved, so they are spiritually dead; they need to be awakened.

You are merely repeating your own opinion on what spiritually dead, a phrase not in the Bible, means, and then inserting that idea into the Bible as if the Bible says your opinion. I just pointed out another way the text of Rom. 8:6 could be understood that does not entail reading into it an extra -biblical theological term.

If being carnlly minded is actual spiritual death, then Christians must be spiritually dead whenever they are thinking carnal thoughts.

1Co 3:3
For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
1Co 3:4
For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?

 

[TruthDefender]

You are merely repeating your own opinion on what spiritually dead, a phrase not in the Bible, means, and then inserting that idea into the Bible as if the Bible says your opinion. I just pointed out another way the text of Rom. 8:6 could be understood that does not entail reading into it an extra -biblical theological term.

If being carnlly minded is actual spiritual death, then Christians must be spiritually dead whenever they are thinking carnal thoughts.

1Co 3:3
For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
1Co 3:4
For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?

Do you not try to keep your thoughts in check?

 

[Magenta]

Romans 8 v 6-7 The mind of the flesh is death, but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind of the flesh is hostile to God: It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so.

 

[TruthDefender]

You are merely repeating your own opinion on what spiritually dead, a phrase not in the Bible, means, and then inserting that idea into the Bible as if the Bible says your opinion. I just pointed out another way the text of Rom. 8:6 could be understood that does not entail reading into it an extra -biblical theological term.

If being carnlly minded is actual spiritual death, then Christians must be spiritually dead whenever they are thinking carnal thoughts.

1Co 3:3
For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
1Co 3:4
For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?

“For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8‬:‭6‬-‭10‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

You don’t have to read into anything (whatever that means).
It’s pretty basic and simple to understand, unless you’re trying to twist it into something else.(?)