We think of Jesus birth as peaceful and a calm night. However Revelation chapter 12 gives us an idea of what was happening in the Spiritual realm at Jesus Birth and it was anything but silent and calm. Spiritual warfare was very wild that night.
Hello tstumf,
I wasn't going to respond to this at first, then I figured that I would. I understand what you are saying here, but I want to share with you, if you can receive it, that Revelation 12 is a future event and Jesus is not the Male Child.
In Revelation 1:19 John is told by the Lord to write:
What you have seen = Everything written from Rev.1:1 thru 1:19
What is now = Represented by the letters to the seven churches, which also stands for the entire church period
What will take place later = Everything that takes place after the "What is now," i.e. what takes place after the church period
We are currently living in the "What is now" portion of what John was told to write. In Revelation 4:1 John hears the same voice like a trumpet say, "Come up here and I will show you what must take place after this," which is synonymous with "What will take place later"
It is my belief that Revelation 4:1 is a prophetic allusion to where the church is gathered. That being true, then everything from Rev.4:1 and forward are all future events, including Rev.12.
The woman is not a literal woman
The Sun, Moon and Twelve Stars are not literal
The woman being pregnant is not a literal pregnancy
The dragon with seven heads, ten horns and seven crowns is not a literal dragon
The woman does not give literal birth
The Male Child is not a literal Male Child
All of the above being true, then how can we interpret Jesus as being the Male Child?
Jesus Does Not Fit the Criteria as Being the Male Child:
The woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and wearing a crown of twelve stars
God first used the same symbols of the sun, moon and stars in Joseph's dream found in Genesis 37:9-10
Sun = Jacob
Moon = wife/wives
Eleven Stars = Eleven tribes of Israel, with Joseph being the twelfth star
Therefore if we apply the sun, moon and stars to the woman of Rev.12, she then represents the nation Israel as a whole.
"And her child was caught up to God and to His throne."
The word "harpazo" translated as 'caught up' is the same word used in 1 Thess.4:16, where the living church is 'caught up' to meet the Lord in the air. The word is defined as ' to seize, catch up, snatch away. properly, seize by force;
snatch up, suddenly and decisively – like someone seizing bounty (spoil, a prize); to take by an
open display of force. It is the same word used when Paul said that he was 'caught up' to the third heaven and when Philip was 'caught away' from the eunuch. It is also used where Jesus said, "no one can snatch them from My Father's hand!" The Male Child is "snatched up" to God and His throne before the dragon can devour/kill him.
Taking this word into consideration, it cannot be used to describe what happened to Jesus, for He was crucified, buried, resurrected and later ascended to the right hand of God. Therefore, He does not fit the meaning of force suddenly exercised and being snatched up and therefore does not fit the criteria of being the Male Child.
So who is the Male Child?
In Revelation 7:1-9 we are introduced to a new group, which are 144,000 Israelites who (unlike the woman) will believe that Jesus is their Messiah, 12,000 from each tribe. Then in Revelation 14, we see the 144,000 with Jesus standing on the heavenly Mount Zion, which is the New Jerusalem, where the Lord says of them "These are the ones who have not been defiled with women, for they are virgins." This would make them all males, ergo, Male Child. The Male Child is a collective name representing 144,000 believing Israelites whom the woman/Israel will figuratively give birth to.
Satan and his angels being cast out of heaven and restricted to the earth, is the result of the 7th trumpet/3rd woe, which is yet future. It is an event which will take place in the middle of the seven years. We can deduce this based on the fact that when the dragon is cast down to the earth, the woman flees out into the wilderness were she will be cared for by God for 1260 days, which is that last 3 1/2 years of that seven year tribulation period.
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