Pray that I learn convincing evidence

[HappyLuke]

I'm a scientifically minded sceptic, unable to believe Christianity on faith without understanding reasons to think it's true, without being convinced by evidence. Believers who think belief in Jesus is necessary for me to avoid hell, please pray for God to reveal himself to me in a way I'll understand and be convinced by, to save my soul

 

[hattiebod]

I'm a scientifically minded sceptic, unable to believe Christianity on faith without understanding reasons to think it's true, without being convinced by evidence. Believers who think belief in Jesus is necessary for me to avoid hell, please pray for God to reveal himself to me in a way I'll understand and be convinced by, to save my soul

Keep on asking, and you will be given what you ask for. Keep on looking, and you will find. Keep on knocking and the door will be opened! Mathew 7:7.
Do you have a Bible? if not, you need to get one and if you have one, all your answers are within it. Read and study the Word, through doing that, your will find the truth. Pray....nothing fancy, just speak to God...say exactly what you write here, that you want to know Him, you want to understand, you do not want to go to Hell. The evidence you seek is in the Word. If you are waiting to have all your questions answered, before you will take your step of faith, you will not get them. We do not get all our questions answered. The good news is though, that God is right here with you, waiting for you to turn to Him, to recognise that you want to know Him, need Him. 'Believe on the Lord Jesus and you will be saved, along with your entire household' Acts 16:31. God Bless you, God WILL bless you!! <><

 

[inge]

I will pray for you that your mind can grasp something of God

Throw all theories out of the door for just a moment , and pray to God and ask Him: I want to know the truth, reveal the Truth to me.

 

[HappyLuke]

Keep on asking, and you will be given what you ask for. Keep on looking, and you will find. Keep on knocking and the door will be opened! Mathew 7:7.
Do you have a Bible? if not, you need to get one and if you have one, all your answers are within it. <><

Thanks for the response!
I do, I read it back to front once a few years ago, and now I just flick back and forth to relevant bits. I'm not waiting to have questions answered before I take my step of faith, I'm completely unable to take a step of faith I think that's pretending, lying to yourself about what you understand to be true. If I got my question for evidence answered before I believe, that's not a step of faith anymore I want to believe in God for good reasons, not because theists are telling me that's the one thing that it's rational to believe without evidence. They'd have to demonstrate that somehow.
I've prayed, and I've read the bible, and I've had special feelings doing it, sure. But I understand them to be natural psychological effects, as false religions induce them in their adherents too, so I could never consider emotional experiences to be proof that an unobservable being is listening to my thoughts or created the universe
Faith-thinking generates those feelings and experiences, whether the god is real or not, so it can never be proof of a religion's truth. Like... If I discover an island and the natives tell me that the smoking volcano mountain is proof of their god, if I understand natural processes that cause volcanos, I'll be unable to believe their god created that volcano without more evidence.
In that way, since I understand false religions induce totally convincing experiences too, I can't believe Christianity on that alone
I could have faith in Islam or Hinduism and still have those experiences

 

[HappyLuke]

I will pray for you that your mind can grasp something of God

Throw all theories out of the door for just a moment , and pray to God and ask Him: I want to know the truth, reveal the Truth to me.

I did, as I have many times before and will continue to do in the future in case I ever make contact I haven't come to know there's any truth to the God theory yet, but hopefully it will happen before I die

 

[wisebeardman]

I honestly believe why nobody has found solid hard scientific evidence god exists. is cause He don't want that to happen

He wants us to just have faith and trust he is there, So by allowing hard evidence to be shown would take the faith away.

 

[HappyLuke]

I honestly believe why nobody has found solid hard scientific evidence god exists. is cause He don't want that to happen

He wants us to just have faith and trust he is there, So by allowing hard evidence to be shown would take the faith away.

Then how are we meant to know what to believe? Wouldn't it be as rational to believe in any other religion?

 

[wisebeardman]

Then how are we meant to know what to believe? Wouldn't it be as rational to believe in any other religion?

thats where the free will comes in. We have free will to make our own choices.

We all walk our own path in our own way by the choices we make.

 

[hattiebod]

Thanks for the response!
I do, I read it back to front once a few years ago, and now I just flick back and forth to relevant bits. I'm not waiting to have questions answered before I take my step of faith, I'm completely unable to take a step of faith I think that's pretending, lying to yourself about what you understand to be true. If I got my question for evidence answered before I believe, that's not a step of faith anymore I want to believe in God for good reasons, not because theists are telling me that's the one thing that it's rational to believe without evidence. They'd have to demonstrate that somehow.
I've prayed, and I've read the bible, and I've had special feelings doing it, sure. But I understand them to be natural psychological effects, as false religions induce them in their adherents too, so I could never consider emotional experiences to be proof that an unobservable being is listening to my thoughts or created the universe
Faith-thinking generates those feelings and experiences, whether the god is real or not, so it can never be proof of a religion's truth. Like... If I discover an island and the natives tell me that the smoking volcano mountain is proof of their god, if I understand natural processes that cause volcanos, I'll be unable to believe their god created that volcano without more evidence.
In that way, since I understand false religions induce totally convincing experiences too, I can't believe Christianity on that alone
I could have faith in Islam or Hinduism and still have those experiences

I was where you are now...i was just a bit older (but not wiser!) i was seeking like you but could not commit, could not get past the whole 'fake' psychological thing. needed proof...I read a book called 'Case for Christ' by Lee Strobble. Actually the author irritated me in the way I saw he made sweeping statements and did not substantiate them ( there i was , same old story but i kept going, it was not a big book and then, wham. I read something regarding Christ and who He was....I stopped short. He was either a lunatic, a liar or He was who He said He was. I had heard this before but this time it resonated with me. I was intrigued, I was faced with a choice. I said a simple ''Hello God, if you are real, here I am, I am a sinner, I want you to take control of my life'. And he did. Over the next few days I could see something odd...now i know it as 'supernatural' was going on and its never stopped I do not live with coincidences anymore, I live with a living God. What I did do and what I think is terribly important for all those serious about seeking a deeper relationship with God, is that we get into obedience and strive to know Him. I did the following....
1. I read the Bible with purpose. Maybe focus on Mark to start. Read a verse and then with a Strongs concordance, dig deeper. There are online resources such as Sword of the Lord...
2. Pray....you can do this any time and anywhere but it's a good idea to give God your time. I started by setting time aside at the start of the day, it was just 10 mins in the beginning, I just got up 10 minutes earlier. I figured if Christ died for me on the cross,at the very least I could do was get out of bed 10 minutes earlier each day.
3. I started to deliberately watch Christian TV and listen to christian radio.I asked for wisdom & discernment...and i loved it, still do!
4. I found and went to a church and i got involved, I joined a cell group, attended any Bible teaching that was on offer.
5. I was living overseas so i went to a faith camp back home that first summer, as soon as I got the chance, it was amazing for me to be surrounded by Christians, the worship, the teachings, the laughs, living in a tent, it was brilliant.(well...mostly
6. I read...i read and I read some more. I sought out Christians to ask questions (as opposed to knocking their faith as I had done in the past A daily study or a Bible reading plan is a great idea...get committed!
7. I continually asked God to be in charge, to lead me, direct and guide me. You will know what is real...what is fake. You will maybe take some detours...I know I have, but He has led me back onto the right path. I believe this is because the Word has always been central to my walk. if you cannot read the Word...no excuse!! listen to it! I am always wary of those who say they they do not read the ~bible 'much'. get the Word into you....it is LIFE <><

God Bless you!! It is SO exciting!! <><

 

[inge]

Good that you pray and still pray for it. I like your honesty and that you just don't act as if you believe. Being honest is very important is my opinion.

It is not about a special feeling. For every person this 'faith-thing' is happening different or should I say unique . In my case I choose God after a bad experience with a demon, that made me realize how true the bible was. Before it I just accepted it, from that moment on I knew what the truth was. It was just plain obvious to me. But that is my experience, and not a nice one. Faith is, to my opinion, not about having no questions anymore. I do have questions. I use my mind, I read about evolutionism and other stuff and sometimes I really wander what is truth.

To search for truth in religions, views and theories, is finding a view on life that has most and best answers on how life did exist, purpose of life and how it ends. But not all answers. No theory/faith/religion has all answers.

To search for truth is for me also about a puzzle and pieces that fall in place, in my mind. I read, search, think and see how the bigger picture is.

God as I see Him is out of our 3 dimensional world but acting in it. So I see our world and theories as a box. We are inside the box watching it from our perspective wondering how things go. We do not have the right measures to measure God, is my opinion. That is why we cannot prove Him. So He has to reveal Himself to me when He is a personal God. Because I believe this world is about relationships (read the magazines and books all over the world and the most important theme is relationship) I believe this God has to be personal and relational. This are just some things that are pieces of my puzzle in my mind on how I think about God.

I have no clue what sort of searcher you exactly are.
Personally I like to read books, for example this one: Why should anyone believe anything at all -James Sire
And also: Orthodoxi - G.K. Chesterton

And if you have questions about my faith just ask.

 

[HappyLuke]

I was seeking like you but could not commit, could not get past the whole 'fake' psychological thing. needed proof...I read a book called 'Case for Christ' by Lee Strobble. Actually the author irritated me in the way I saw he made sweeping statements and did not substantiate them ( there i was , same old story but i kept going, it was not a big book and then, wham. I read something regarding Christ and who He was....I stopped short. He was either a lunatic, a liar or He was who He said He was. I had heard this before but this time it resonated with me.<><

Hi! Great response, thanks! I read that book too and found it similarly frustrating the way he made sweeping, unsubstantiated statements about modern physics which I understood to be wrong clearly in much more detail than he did, but I never found the 'lord, liar, or lunatic' argument convincing because it assumes the accuracy of the bible. The fourth 'L' word it doesn't mention is 'legend', that the stories of the bible aren't accurate and Jesus never claimed to be God or part of a triune with God

 

[HappyLuke]

Good that you pray and still pray for it. I like your honesty and that you just don't act as if you believe. Being honest is very important is my opinion.

It is not about a special feeling. For every person this 'faith-thing' is happening different or should I say unique . In my case I choose God after a bad experience with a demon, that made me realize how true the bible was. Before it I just accepted it, from that moment on I knew what the truth was. It was just plain obvious to me. But that is my experience, and not a nice one. Faith is, to my opinion, not about having no questions anymore. I do have questions. I use my mind, I read about evolutionism and other stuff and sometimes I really wander what is truth.

Cooool great message!!
I'm really curious about your demon experience, would you feel comfortable sharing it? Perhaps via inbox? Also by the way you used the word 'evolutionism' I gather you don't understand evidence that proves the common ancestry history of life, as modern biology presents it? I could help you to understand some really clear evidences e.g. from the fossil record, genetics, the geographical distribution of species, comparative anatomy etc.
From your next paragraph it kind of seemed like you reject the modern scientific understanding of the history of life because it can't answer philosophically phrased questions, like "what's the purpose of life?". I don't think that evolution is at all falsified by lacking such answers, either such answers don't exist (if no creator God exists) or such answers simply cannot be discovered by learning about the history of life (if God created life by evolution but for some hidden reasons).
I'll check out reviews and excerpts from those books now Hopefully even youtube lectures by the authors

 

[pickles]

Praying for you happyluke for all you ask in Jesus.
Just think about this... all that is science is based in that which one day dies, all that you can hold and see now, will one day die.
But all that is known in faith, lives eternal and cannot shaken or moved, for faith is the evidence of things unseen.
Only God, His power and life given in Jesus, known by faith, cannot die.

God bless
pickles

 

[HappyLuke]

Praying for you happyluke for all you ask in Jesus. Just think about this... all that is science is based in that which one day dies, all that you can hold and see now, will one day die. But all that is known in faith, lives eternal and cannot shaken or moved, for faith is the evidence of things unseen. Only God, His power and life given in Jesus, known by faith, cannot die.
God bless
pickles

Wow thanks for the likes on my last 5 messages, they were diverse and expressive ones on very different topics
And thanks for the prayers I'd like to talk more about faith though, I didn't really find the end half of your message to be very logical
I've come across the verse that includes defining faith as 'the evidence of things unseen', but being written doesn't make it true! In fact, every scientific experiment in history has demonstrated that believing things on faith alone is the same as randomly guessing, and taking evidence into account gives better than random truth revealing results. If faith were at all effective, you would believe every single unsupported claim! You don't really think faith is evidence of what is held on faith- you make a special exception for Christianity. Otherwise you'd say that a Hindu's faith and personal prayer-induced emotional experiences with Shiva, proves the existence of Shiva

 

[pickles]

Actually, all is more what I came to see when young.
My life was filled with loss and I began at a very early age to wonder about everything.
I knew Jesus, as He was presant with me from my earlyest memories.
But there was a part of me that wanted explanation, reason, proof, or simply something to hold onto as my world was filled with so much abuse and betrayal.
I considered so many things and saw many possibuilties, for other religions had the tools more easly aquired to take controll of my life and give answers to the world around me.
But as I looked at all things, I saw that unless one placed what they valued or wanted in a vault or protective enviroment.
Eventually decay or loss was the eventual outcome.
For I saw that no matter what we did, or what is, all would one day find death.
Now I know many might argue that all things become more after death, but I saw that beyond this there was still an end.
But I saw also, that there was something more, something that exsisted in,or better said held and decided all that is.
And this decider had to be not of the world, but had to overcome the world, time space and all we know in order to have dominion , or better said creation, life in itself, It had to be, I am.
So I realised all I had tried to seek elsewhere, had always been within me, beside me, in everything I knew.
I saw that God , as He said, I am, was my creator, and the power that had dominion, but also that such could only be if love was the constant and perfect.
Becuase all we see, touch and know, is imperfect, will eventually become dust.
God is the breath that brings life.
I dont know if Im explaining this very well, for the love I have come to know and the perfect that has brought this same life in me, words really cannot do justice to.
But when I stopped trying to hold onto things to believe, and in faith, chose what was given to me by word in Jesus.
Everything I knew in the world, even that which is seen in our universe, became the empty, that which has no substance or life.
And by faith, in Jesus, God Our Father, I know now all that is trully alive, filled with perfect love, infinite and eternal.
Simply said, one has to be willing ti step forward, in faith.
For reason and what one knows around them, all debate, all knowladge, if you knew everything that is in the world and beyond.
You still cannot know, the glory and love of God, untill you in faith, call out to Jesus.
But when you do, and in faith believe unto Him, you will know and see, and be dazzled!
Ive lived many dificulties, and many joys, but all I have lived has been filled with the love and presance of Jesus.
And though all of my life has not been perfect, the perfect has always been with me, and compleated me with His love.
For faith is both a gift and decision.

You remain in my prayers in Jesus.
God bless
pickles

 

[Ugly]

Then how are we meant to know what to believe? Wouldn't it be as rational to believe in any other religion?

I'm not saying this to start a debate on evolution. Just using this to make a quick point. But i don't see it as rational that the biology of living beings, the ecosystem, the way the world works, the human body works, all the smallest details of how everything fits together, is all an accident. That 'in nothingness' there was an explosion, and out of that random event came everything we see around us, in all its complicated glory. To me that is not rational thinking that we're a billion to one chance accident that morphed and evolved into something so complicated. You may think believing in God is irrational, or not logical, but its no harder to believe than what you have to believe if you don't believe in God. Just something to think on, again, i am not saying this to (and will not) get into a debate on it.

 

[stevef]

HappyLuke-This may or may not make sense to you, but a couple of things make sense to me. I believe along the lines of Ugly who posted above that it is a lot easier for me to believe that there is an incredible creative power beyond our human comprehension that created this wonderous universe. When I look at the stars, or see an incredible signt on earth (or learn more about the human body or the instincts of animals, etc.), I'm filled with wonder at the intelligence and power of what we call God that created all of this and keeps it in order. To think that everyting in this universe and the incredible things science has and continues to discover could have happened purely by chance makes no sense to me, so I believe there is a creator we call God, even if I have a hard time comprehending such a power. To me the evidence of an intelligent creator is all around. As far as Christ, I do believe he lived, died and rose again, appearing to the disciples and others after he was crucified. The main evidence to me of his resurrection is that the disciples were basically hiding in fear after he was crucified, and something changed them from hiding in fear for their lives after the crucifixion, to boldly going out and preaching the gospel, risking and giving their lives to do so. Putting myself in their shoes, about the only thing that could bring about such a radical change in me is if I actually did see and talk to Christ again after I knew he was dead. And of course faith also plays an important part in this because nobody can prove any of this beyond a shadow of a doubt, but for me the evidence justifies my faith. There's also the joy that fills my heart when I follow what Christ taught in loving and forgiving others. I'm praying that you will find the evidence you need to convince you to take a step of faith and build a relationship with Jesus Christ and our Father in Heaven.

 

[HappyLuke]

I'm not saying this to start a debate on evolution. Just using this to make a quick point. But i don't see it as rational that the biology of living beings, the ecosystem, the way the world works, the human body works, all the smallest details of how everything fits together, is all an accident. That 'in nothingness' there was an explosion, and out of that random event came everything we see around us, in all its complicated glory. To me that is not rational thinking that we're a billion to one chance accident that morphed and evolved into something so complicated. You may think believing in God is irrational, or not logical, but its no harder to believe than what you have to believe if you don't believe in God. Just something to think on, again, i am not saying this to (and will not) get into a debate on it.

Hihi!
I understand you don't want a debate, I'll just make a few minor points
-Evolution isn't random accident, it's no accident that wolves will evolve to grow longer fur in the on setting of an ice age, for example
-Gravity is an interesting kind of anti-entropy force, bringing together the chaotic, simple remnants of the big bang (interstellar clouds that have even settled to thermodynamic equilibrium- maximum simplicity) into stars and planets and all the complex chemical systems therein

If I didn't understand the processes of gravitational collapse and evolution to produce complexity from simplicity, I would be just as shocked to see the complexity of the real world as you think atheists should be

 

[HappyLuke]

I'm praying that you will find the evidence you need to convince you to take a step of faith and build a relationship with Jesus Christ and our Father in Heaven.

Thanks heaps

 

[HappyLuke]

There's also the joy that fills my heart when I follow what Christ taught in loving and forgiving others.

It also fills my heart with joy to be a deeply caring person But I choose to be loving and care because that's the kind of life I want to live and the kind of world I want to live in, where everyone works to minimize all suffering and promote the well being of others. I get to the same ends but by a slightly different motivation, I don't do it because Christ taught it's good, but because it's good