Prayer of the Arminian, Charles Spurgeon

[7seasrekeyed]

I don't know who you are, nor do I remember past encounters with you. But, you're on my ignore. I don't have time to deal with you.

well not in real life certainly

but if you are not a previous member (not banned so it doesn't really matter), you have a clone somewhere

oh...you have time to deal with me...and nobody cares if you put me on ignore

nobody at all

 

[7seasrekeyed]

And so do countless non-Calvinists throughout the ages.

See how that works? Pretty cool, eh?

Calvin intimidated with the power to kill, which is a well known fact, and here we have the power of ignore

and so close to all hallows eve too...

I mean I just cannot take this Calvin thing seriously

it's such a baffling system of believing that actually exalts the so called person of faith

where is Jesus in all of it?

 

[Nehemiah6]

The Prayer of the Arminian

Another pathetic attempt to smear non-Reformed Christians as either *Arminians* or *free-willers*. Give it up UWC, since no one is buying your false gospel.

Spurgeon was a great preacher who was ensnared by Reformed theology. The funny thing is that his Gospel messages are not consistent with his Calvinism. And they could not possibly be.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

and again, this op, this so called 'prayer' is nothing more than mockery of believers who don't get down on their knees thanking God for a man rather than Christ

there is no man and never will be (man or woman) who deserves such a lavish display of faithfulness

Paul said it well

he disparaged all from following anyone but Christ!

 

[Nehemiah6]

and you see nothing wrong with this?

When the blind lead the blind, they both fall down into the ditch.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

If you're talking about Steven Anderson, he's a heretic.

He claims that no homosexual can be saved, even if they repent of their sins and place their faith in Jesus. He doesn't think they can repent of their sins. When asked what a homosexual should do, he said they should shoot themselves in the head. He said this on a BBC program about America's Hate Preachers (look it up if you want).

So, here's where the double standards come into play. If someone is struggling with homosexuality, then they are being told by Steven Anderson that they can't be saved. How much depression would that bring on, if they don't realize that Steven Anderson is a false teacher? Yet, you are claiming Reformed theology is depressing, but you believe some guy who teaches that one class of sinners is condemned and cannot repent.

By the way, he doesn't believe in Lordship Salvation either. He denies it, and doesn't believe the person needs to repent of their sins in a biblical sense. They can go on sinning after salvation with no concern for their sinfulness, and they will still be saved.

Anderson thinks that faith is mere intellectual assent, and if you don't believe his version of faith, you believe in works righteousness.

Christianity doesn't teach that. It teaches that the believer is joined with Jesus, and this union justifies them. Jesus dwells within them, and transforms them over their life into the image of Christ. This is a lifelong process. See Romans 6:1-14.

Of course, you may not be referring to Steven Anderson. I hope not, because he's a heretic. I personally don't think he's a Christian.

I don't know anything about the man in question, but how are you insulted by him supposedly saying no homosexual could ever be saved when you are CONSTANTLY flinging salvation by calvinism only ?

I mean it boggles the mind

the hypocrisy is alarming but the deception worse which actually creates/ed the hypocrisy

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

And so do countless non-Calvinists throughout the ages.

See how that works? Pretty cool, eh?

Of course. I don't deny the salvation of non-Reformed people.

I think some of the vehement anti-Reformed people may be unsaved, because they hate God's sovereignty and do everything they can to undermine an understanding of predestination, including slandering, lying and misrepresenting.

I have plenty of Christian friends who are not Reformed, but they are not haters either.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

i like him. pastor anderson atleast has the guts to say what he wants. he is not a sissy like many preachers today, afraid of their own shadow.

why would God say He was looking for a man but found none? nobody to stand in gap? thats stupid because God could just regenerate someone and give them faith and repentance gifts and there would be someone to stand in the gap. why is God wondering why people He gave totally depraved curse are not standing in the gap? of course they arent standing in the gap.

here is a funny video of pastor anderson yelling at calvinism. hahahaha. is it the yelling you dont like? it entertains me.

if you seriously want to know what steven anderson beliefs about salvation. you should listen to his sermons going through 1 john epistle. he doesnt believe you can just be christian today say sinner's prayer and then two weeks later you are atheist. he would say its false convert. God will keep those who are saved

I wouldn't call that a rant

more like a man who has had enough of...'the false doctrine' of Calvinism

cowards beware LOL!

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Of course. I don't deny the salvation of non-Reformed people.

I think some of the vehement anti-Reformed people may be unsaved, because they hate God's sovereignty and do everything they can to undermine an understanding of predestination.

I have plenty of Christian friends who are not Reformed, but they are not haters either.

oh give it up

such nonsense

maybe you have me on ignore, but no one has said God is not sovereign

is this the lie that is your foundation?

shameful

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

By the way, I could just as easily say that Charles Spurgeon was attacked by Satan more than free-wil preachers because he was a true man of God, and they are not.

Here's the issue..individuals have their own agenda, and they distort facts to suit their purposes.

The simple fact is that some individuals have genuine brain-chemical problems, and some are tormented by Satan to hinder their ministry, and there are other reasons for depression.

Notice how quickly her position switched after I took her standard and applied it to free-willers. That's how you can detect hypocrites. Take a standard that someone applies, and apply it to their position.

Often they will cry foul and reveal their hypocrisy. Sometimes they will admit it, though, and that is a sign they may be a real Christian.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

By the way, I could just as easily say that Charles Spurgeon was attacked by Satan more than free-wil preachers because he was a true man of God, and they are not.

Here's the issue..individuals have their own agenda, and they distort facts to suit their purposes.

The simple fact is that some individuals have genuine brain-chemical problems, and some are tormented by Satan to hinder their ministry, and there are other reasons for depression.

Notice how quickly her position switched after I took her standard and applied it to free-willers. That's how you can detect hypocrites. Take a standard that someone applies, and apply it to their position.

Often they will cry foul and reveal their hypocrisy. Sometimes they will admit it, though, and that is a sign they may be a real Christian.

'her' position?

pathetic little jab there

the simple fact is that I agree with you that things like your post are definately agenda driven

the Bible is not however

you actually do have a choice and it seems you always take the low road rather than see that others have a free will and so will NOT all agree with you

we are not preprogrammed and you will be surprised at some you were sure were going to hell are not there

my position changed? dream on. keep up the false info.

smh

wait...didn't you say I was on your ignore? I know. I'm just too interesting to ignore

 

[Melach]

so we know that in calvinism all means all kinds of men. so all doesnt mean all. does every mean every?

Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
Tit 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

does every man also means every kind of man?

 

[Magenta]

so we know that in calvinism all means all kinds of men. so all doesnt mean all. does every mean every?

Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
Tit 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

does every man also means every kind of man?

I have had Calvinists tell me that all (in some cases) only means all who are predestined, as in chosen beforehand.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

so we know that in calvinism all means all kinds of men. so all doesnt mean all. does every mean every?

Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
Tit 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

does every man also means every kind of man?

Hebrews 2:9 Heb. 2:9 glory and honor. Because Jesus became “obedient to the point of death . . . God has highly exalted him” (Phil. 2:8–9). By his redemptive work, Christ has fulfilled all that is required as the supreme representative of mankind. By his incarnation, substitutionary sacrifice, and victory over sin and death (cf. Rom. 6:23; 1 John 4:10), he has fulfilled man’s original purpose. As the Second Adam (1 Cor. 15:47), he was for a short time lower than the angels. Now he has glory and honor, and all things (including angels) are subject to him. taste death for everyone. Everyone who believes, that is. The death of Christ can only be applied in its efficacy to those who come to God repentantly in faith, asking for saving grace and forgiveness of sins. See notes on 2 Cor. 5:21; 1 Tim. 2:6 4:10; Titus 2:11.
(MacArthur Study Notes (ESV))

Titus 2:11 2:11 Bringing salvation for all people is sometimes misunderstood as meaning that all people will be saved. However, such a reading is not necessary here and flatly contradicts other Scripture (see note on 1 Tim. 2:4). It means, rather, that salvation has been offered to all people (including all ethnic groups), not just to some.
(ESV SB Notes)

Regarding "everyone who believes" obviously that's referring to the elect.

And, the letter was written to Hebrew believers, so I could infer that it is talking about the audience of the Hebrews letter.

 

[Melach]

I have had Calvinists tell me that all (in some cases) only means all who are predestined, as in chosen beforehand.

this is ridicilous. different calvinists inventing different ways to change these verses. some say all means all the elect/predestinated as in your case. some say all means "all kinds" as in my case.

looks like they are inventing it on the fly to protect their creed. that is not good. we should change how we think on the bible totality of it. instead of trying to make bible fit our mind

 

[Melach]

Hebrews 2:9 Heb. 2:9 glory and honor. Because Jesus became “obedient to the point of death . . . God has highly exalted him” (Phil. 2:8–9). By his redemptive work, Christ has fulfilled all that is required as the supreme representative of mankind. By his incarnation, substitutionary sacrifice, and victory over sin and death (cf. Rom. 6:23; 1 John 4:10), he has fulfilled man’s original purpose. As the Second Adam (1 Cor. 15:47), he was for a short time lower than the angels. Now he has glory and honor, and all things (including angels) are subject to him. taste death for everyone. Everyone who believes, that is. The death of Christ can only be applied in its efficacy to those who come to God repentantly in faith, asking for saving grace and forgiveness of sins. See notes on 2 Cor. 5:21; 1 Tim. 2:6 4:10; Titus 2:11.
(MacArthur Study Notes (ESV))

Titus 2:11 2:11 Bringing salvation for all people is sometimes misunderstood as meaning that all people will be saved. However, such a reading is not necessary here and flatly contradicts other Scripture (see note on 1 Tim. 2:4). It means, rather, that salvation has been offered to all people (including all ethnic groups), not just to some.
(ESV SB Notes)

Regarding "everyone who believes" obviously that's referring to the elect.

And, the letter was written to Hebrew believers, so I could infer that it is talking about the audience of the Hebrews letter.

again. you say every man means all who believe (verse doesnt say it). john macarthur is a lying hypocrite. he hates on modern liberal fun churches yet his yout camp is just absolutely degenerate with waterslides and just a worldly party, saying we can take mark of the beast and be saved still as long as we dont worship the beast. he also pushes that ridicilous "middle eastern men just dont run" i heard him and many parrots say it. thats so stupid, they have to invent that fake history to find something to talk about, fill in time when preaching that prodigal son story, ooh look he ran to the father ruined his reputation ran thru the city (bible says nothing about city or village either). look up "ran" and "run" in bible, people running to Jesus all over the place in the book. some of these fake pastors really make me angry

you do same with titus 2:11 as with the hebrews, you change first definition: you change it from GOd's grace which bring salvation to all and bring to people's mind that this means atuomatically that they are saved. second you change it from all to all ethnic groups not just some...........

come on man. how can you be so adamant and confident in your calvinism when you have to twist so many scriptures and reinterpret them to make them fit the reformed understanding of eph 2 and other total depravity proof texts you guys blow out of proportion?

 

[Magenta]

this is ridicilous. different calvinists inventing different ways to change these verses. some say all means all the elect/predestinated as in your case. some say all means "all kinds" as in my case.

looks like they are inventing it on the fly to protect their creed. that is not good. we should change how we think on the bible totality of it. instead of trying to make bible fit our mind

I suppose in some ways it is how outsiders to Christianity see the differing doctrines and beliefs between sects as being totally confusing and non-sensical. How each person comes to what they believe does vary with how others arrive their beliefs, even when it is the same Holy Spirit guiding us into all wisdom. Sometimes I think these very differences and how we handle them is a true test of the love that is supposed to unite us. Politics and religion, eh?

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

this is ridicilous. different calvinists inventing different ways to change these verses. some say all means all the elect/predestinated as in your case. some say all means "all kinds" as in my case.

looks like they are inventing it on the fly to protect their creed. that is not good. we should change how we think on the bible totality of it. instead of trying to make bible fit our mind

So, how do you view John 6:44? It says that no one can come to the Father unless he is drawn, and he will be raised up on the last day.

If everyone is drawn, as has been proclaimed, does that mean everyone is going to be raised up on the last day? This is a clear reference to the resurrection of the just. The context of John 6 indicates that those who belong to the Father are given to the Son, and all those drawn to the Father are raised up.

In your system, how do you reconcile these verses?

I know how I do.

John 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.
(ESV)

Making sense of the Bible requires making some decisions on verses like the ones you presented. The Reformed position is that many of them are related to the Jew-Gentile issue, and that "all men" or "the world" refers to the idea Jews had that only they would receive salvation.

Additionally, my position is that Christianity has assumed a synergistic view due to the promulgation of Pentecostalism and the effects of Charles Finney and his false teachings.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

again. you say every man means all who believe (verse doesnt say it). john macarthur is a lying hypocrite. he hates on modern liberal fun churches yet his yout camp is just absolutely degenerate with waterslides and just a worldly party, saying we can take mark of the beast and be saved still as long as we dont worship the beast. he also pushes that ridicilous "middle eastern men just dont run" i heard him and many parrots say it. thats so stupid, they have to invent that fake history to find something to talk about, fill in time when preaching that prodigal son story, ooh look he ran to the father ruined his reputation ran thru the city (bible says nothing about city or village either). look up "ran" and "run" in bible, people running to Jesus all over the place in the book. some of these fake pastors really make me angry

you do same with titus 2:11 as with the hebrews, you change first definition: you change it from GOd's grace which bring salvation to all and bring to people's mind that this means atuomatically that they are saved. second you change it from all to all ethnic groups not just some...........

come on man. how can you be so adamant and confident in your calvinism when you have to twist so many scriptures and reinterpret them to make them fit the reformed understanding of eph 2 and other total depravity proof texts you guys blow out of proportion?

If that's your view, I'd be glad to put you on ignore. Answering your questions is time consuming anyways.

My policy is to shake the dust off my feet when people don't want to hear what I've got to say.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with waterslides unless you're some type of hypocritical Baptist or Pentecostal. They have weird rules like that. They don't want kids to have fun.

Regarding Jewish men, it is my understanding that older Jewish men didn't typically run, and to do so would have been an expression of great joy that the Father had for a son who repented. Since the entire chapter has this context, relating to individuals being extremely happy finding a lost item, as being symbolic of the joy God has for a sinner returning back to a relationship with him, I have no idea why you would be disappointed with his explanation on that. Perhaps you don't know how to read parables, though, or you don't understand Jewish culture, or your Pastor Anderson doesn't approve of that view. At any rate, I don't see his explanation as being unreasonable.

I'm not surprised that you have issues with understanding the Bible, given that you can't understand a simple set of parables like that, though. Go back and read that chapter and look for the common thread.

God is happy with seeing "sinners" and "tax collectors" returning back to him, and in fact, so joyous he's willing to "make a fool of himself" expressing it. He isn't nonchalant about it.

I am not the Scripture-twister. Your view twists Scripture. Which doesn't really surprise me if you are following Stephen Anderson.

Regarding the Mark of the Beast thing, I have heard there was some controversy over that but I don't remember the details. However, anyone who has a desire to repent and believe can. This would be evidence that God is regenerating them.

 

[Melach]

So, how do you view John 6:44? It says that no one can come to the Father unless he is drawn, and he will be raised up on the last day.

If everyone is drawn, as has been proclaimed, does that mean everyone is going to be raised up on the last day? This is a clear reference to the resurrection of the just. The context of John 6 indicates that those who belong to the Father are given to the Son, and all those drawn to the Father are raised up.

In your system, how do you reconcile these verses?

I know how I do.

John 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.
(ESV)

Making sense of the Bible requires making some decisions on verses like the ones you presented. The Reformed position is that many of them are related to the Jew-Gentile issue, and that "all men" or "the world" refers to the idea Jews had that only they would receive salvation.

Additionally, my position is that Christianity has assumed a synergistic view due to the promulgation of Pentecostalism and the effects of Charles Finney and his false teachings.

i dont have to reconcile because im dispensational, no excuses or re interpreting needed like u guys. john 6:44 isnt about us. this is said when Jesus is alive and its talking to the disciples. later Jesus prays about these same people:

Joh 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
Joh 17:6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.
Joh 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.


but now after Jesus has done the mission and gone back to heaven, Jesus sent the Holy Spirit now.

Tit 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Joh 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
Joh 16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
Joh 16:9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;

so now its the Spirit working in people. but in john 6 Jesus is talking to His disciples and people in that earthly ministry. then later on in John Jesus says to Father i've done the mission i kept those sheep you gave me.

then Jesus dies and resurrects and new dispensation begin. thats what i believe