Before any of us ever accepted God, God had already chosen us. If that is not Elected, then the definition is incorrect to begin with. We are grafted in. We are Israelites to God. We are the Elect!
PRE- MID- POST TRIBULATION.... JESUS RETURN TO EARTH FOR HIS BRIDE!
- Thread starter Leastamongmany
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Before any of us ever accepted God, God had already chosen us. If that is not Elected, then the definition is incorrect to begin with. We are grafted in. We are Israelites to God. We are the Elect!
I did not say anything about Christians not being elect. But the issue was regarding the elect during the Great Tribulation (which does not pertain to the Church).
You are leaving me as such, because you know there is no verse that proves your claim!
If there was an actual verse making your claim, you would post it in a highlighted text!
What you do have to show me as proof is pretty much this:
qfrhgfhqrhqrhfhwoeihfowhiofhofhohwfhowehfohwefhrowe = pre-trib Rapture because I say that is what qfrhgfhqrhqrhfhwoeihfowhiofhofhohwfhowehfohwefhrowe means!
If the ac kills every man woman and child DURING THE GT ,where is this dynamic that supposedly the church is doing well on earth at the end of the gt,and noah nor lot were rescued/ removed/taken out of the destruction/flood/judgement AFTER THE JUDGEMENT WAS PAST??????
YOU HAVE ZERO EVIDENCE OF A POSTRIB REMOVAL
NOTHING
Once you focus on the rapture.....hands down game over....it is without a doubt,a pretrib rapture.
You see what I see. The church murdered DURING THE GT.
We both see that. We both see the church present to be murdered during the gt.
The rapture is the Worthy BRIDE....NOT the carnal christians.
Only those worthy wise virgins are removed. Those carnal believers ,the foolish unworthy believers,are killed/martered by the ac and seen early on in the gt as a innumerable number IN HEAVEN...destroying the postrib rapture doctrine.
Jesus tells us "...but pray you may be counted worthy..."
Jesus tells us " because you have kept the word of my testimony I WILL KEEP YOU OUT OF THE TRIAL ABOUT TO COME UPON THE WHOLE EARTH"
WHAM,WHAM,WHAM...JESUS without question coming pretrib for his bride.
The last supper dialog is pretrib lingo. I will not drink of the fruit of the vine till I drink it anew WITH YOU IN HEAVEN"
In ruth the gentile bride is taken,and the land redeemed.
The jew is there with them both.
What is missing????
THE GT. NO GT ANYWHERE IN SIGHT.
WHY? Because heaven is not gt centered.
Heaven is bride centered.
Boaz was bride centered. Naomi the jewess was indirectly involved.
Jacob's trouble is Israel's trouble...nothing at all to do with the bride....zero.
So the rapture is a part FROM the gt..
You guys are 100% gt centered. Your focus is wrong. What you magnify is the gt.
IOW your starting place mental. It is what you think can't happen.
The case I lay out is bullet proof.
Why ?
Because I START FROM HEAVEN...the bride.
The bride is the starting place....not tribulation.
But we see right away that postrib is off the table due to the impossibilities.
Postrib rapture can not possibly be true. Not even remotely possible.
Rev 14 gathering HAS TO FOLLOW 1 thes 4.
(Unless you think the Holy Spirit was confused when He said THE DEAD RISE BEFORE THE LIVING)
GAME SET MATCH.!!!!!
There is no verse saying asparagus grows in heaven.
Therefore it can not.
Right?
...but you got a train load of verses showing
the pretrib rapture is indisputable.
Take one of my verses. Show us another "interpretation"
You will be forced to go against the bible
The baby Jesus was removed BEFORE TRIB
Lot ...the same
Noah ......the same
So did they have a bad testimony????
""Let no man deceive you for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed""
I am pretrib and believe we may see the ac before the rapture.
That dynamic is in no way a postrib rapture marker.
It says "REVEALED".
But I see the Christian's rounded up at the start of the gt. Then raptured from the holding facilities.
We will see the mockers saying "ha ha,see ....where is your false pretrib rapture ?"
Me...."He will be here. He is coming..hide and watch"
Then about half leave the facility ....glorious...the worthy bride looking for the groom.
The unbeliever Christian's looking for something other than the groom stay and are martyred.
Millions/billions killed right away in the gt.
....the foolish arriving in heaven another way
""Let no man deceive you for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be REVEALED""
Why do postribs think that verse proves anything?????
It is declaring a parallel at the beginning of the gt.
Yet postribs reframe it to the end of the gt.
The ac is revealed after the gt ????
Why do postribs think that verse proves anything?????
It is declaring a parallel at the beginning of the gt.
Yet postribs reframe it to the end of the gt.
The ac is revealed after the gt ????
They are shortened for the jews.
Rev 14 has the 144k removed first...firstfruits...then the main harvest of jews "ripe fruit" a few sentences later.
Jacob's trouble the gt.
Not brides trouble
I have the WORDS of Jesus in Matthew 24 that claims AFTER the Tribulation Ends.
As to where YOU have no verses claiming the Church leaves before Tribulation, NO VERSES!
Really? To be sure, there will indeed be a great white throne judgment at the end of the thousand years, but that is not the wrath that is spoken of. The wrath that is coming upon the earth, will be like no other time in history, unprecedented. By the time the Lord returns to the earth to end the age, the majority of the earths population will have been decimated and all human government dismantled. A thousand years after God's wrath has taken place is when the great white throne judgment will take place and is where all of the unrighteous dead throughout all of history will stand before God and will be judged. However, God's wrath, the Day of the Lord, will take place leading up to the Lord's return to the earth to end the age, which will be carried out via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, as well as the plagues that the two witnesses bring.
The Day of the Lord which was prophesied of by the prophets of old and the apostles, is that time of wrath. The book of Revelation is a detailed account of all that is going to take place during the time of God's wrath, which is made up of the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments. Everything that Satan, the beast and the false prophet do during that time, is apart of God's wrath whom He uses to fulfill His will.
The great white throne judgment will be exactly that, the final judgment with the results being everyone whose names is not found written in the book of life will be thrown into the lake of fire. The wrath which is coming upon this earth is listed from Revelation chapters 6 thru 18. Therefore, it is not a matter regarding, as you said, "That to Me is wrath." But what God's word teaches as being His wrath is what counts. In support of this, the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments are identified as God's wrath. So, I don't know why you would say that:
"I saw in heaven another great and marvelous sign: seven angels with the seven last plagues—last, because with them God’s wrath is completed."
The verse above is in reference to those seven angels with the seven [last plagues], last because with them [God's wrath] is completed. This verse is referring to the seven angels with the bowl judgments, which complete God's wrath. Since the seven bowls are identified as being last, then it would mean that other wrath would have to come before them. If I say, "I was last in line to by concert tickets," that would mean that other people were ahead of me. It is the same here. Since these seven bowls are referred to as being the seven last plagues of wrath, then it would infer that there will wrath that will come before them, namely, the seals and trumpets. The word of God is referring to them as being God's wrath, where the great white throne is a final judgment.
But there is a verse in Matthew 24 where Jesus says AFTER TRIBULATION ENDS HE RETURNS!
Therefore I have 1 verse and YOU have NONE!
Twist that Bible, it's the only way so far I have seen how most of what you believe has been done. The ELECT is anyone SAVED in Christ!