(Pre) Millennialism/Chiliaism
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N
Well there really is no need to guess here, Here is yet another reference to this thousand year time period :
Revelation 20:2
King James Version (KJV)
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
and yet another to the 1000 years :
Revelation 20:7
King James Version (KJV)
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Revelation 20:2
King James Version (KJV)
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
and yet another to the 1000 years :
Revelation 20:7
King James Version (KJV)
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
so your thousand years isn't a literal thousand years? it's prophetic?
what does that mean?
maybe it's best to do a brief summary of what you believe nathan:
a third temple will be built, satan will appear and claim to be Jesus, he'll trick everyone into thinking he is Jesus, all the world will worship him, then the real Jesus comes and establishes a 1,000 year reign.
is that right?
~
Zechariah 14:4 etc LXX
septuagint lxx | Deciphering Zechariah 14:5 < click
Acts 1
The Ascension
6So when they had come together, they asked him, “Lord, will you at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?” 7He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by his own authority. 8But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.” 9And when he had said these things, as they were looking on, he was lifted up, and a cloud took him out of their sight. 10And while they were gazing into heaven as he went, behold, two men stood by them in white robes, 11and said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into heaven? This Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will come in the same way as you saw him go into heaven.”
Matthias Chosen to Replace Judas
12Then they returned to Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is near Jerusalem, a Sabbath day’s journey away. 13And when they had entered, they went up to the upper room, where they were staying, Peter and John and James and Andrew, Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus and Simon the Zealot and Judas the son of James. 14All these with one accord were devoting themselves to prayer, together with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and his brothers.
so?
Acts 1 says He will return.
it says nothing about a New Temple or Millennium or any of that.
i suggest taking the time to read the paper above, and using the LXX.
Isaiah 9
6 For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given;
and the government shall be upond his shoulder,
and his name shall be callede
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
7 Of the increase of his government and of peace
there will be no end,
on the throne of David and over his kingdom,
to establish it and to uphold it
with justice and with righteousness
from this time forth and forevermore.
The zeal of the LORD of hosts will do this.
so you don't believe Jesus is a Ruling King now?
what's He doing?
since the Throne of David (Government) is forever, who is sitting on it right now if not Jesus?
the Queen?
British Israelism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia < click
Luke 1
Birth of Jesus Foretold
26In the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a city of Galilee named Nazareth, 27to a virgin betrothedb to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David. And the virgin’s name was Mary. 28And he came to her and said, “Greetings, O favored one, the Lord is with you!”c 29But she was greatly troubled at the saying, and tried to discern what sort of greeting this might be. 30And the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. 31And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus. 32He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. And the Lord God will give to him the throne of his father David, 33and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of his kingdom there will be no end.”
Jesus isn't The King now?
Luke 17
The Coming of the Kingdom
20Being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, he answered them, “The kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be observed, 21nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or ‘There!’ for behold, the kingdom of God is in the midst of you.”
this says He is King now:
Matthew 21
The Triumphal Entry
1Now when they drew near to Jerusalem and came to Bethphage, to the Mount of Olives, then Jesus sent two disciples, 2saying to them, “Go into the village in front of you, and immediately you will find a donkey tied, and a colt with her. Untie them and bring them to me. 3If anyone says anything to you, you shall say, ‘The Lord needs them,’ and he will send them at once.” 4This took place to fulfill what was spoken by the prophet, saying,
5 “Say to the daughter of Zion,
‘Behold, your king is coming to you,
humble, and mounted on a donkey,
anda on a colt, the foal of a beast of burden.’”
nathan i can help you unravel the Shepherd's Chapel thing.
but you have to want to know it.
otherwise there's little point continuing.
but whichever is fine with me.
what does that mean?
maybe it's best to do a brief summary of what you believe nathan:
a third temple will be built, satan will appear and claim to be Jesus, he'll trick everyone into thinking he is Jesus, all the world will worship him, then the real Jesus comes and establishes a 1,000 year reign.
is that right?
~
Zechariah 14:4 etc LXX
septuagint lxx | Deciphering Zechariah 14:5 < click
Acts 1
The Ascension
6So when they had come together, they asked him, “Lord, will you at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?” 7He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by his own authority. 8But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.” 9And when he had said these things, as they were looking on, he was lifted up, and a cloud took him out of their sight. 10And while they were gazing into heaven as he went, behold, two men stood by them in white robes, 11and said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into heaven? This Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will come in the same way as you saw him go into heaven.”
Matthias Chosen to Replace Judas
12Then they returned to Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is near Jerusalem, a Sabbath day’s journey away. 13And when they had entered, they went up to the upper room, where they were staying, Peter and John and James and Andrew, Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus and Simon the Zealot and Judas the son of James. 14All these with one accord were devoting themselves to prayer, together with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and his brothers.
so?
Acts 1 says He will return.
it says nothing about a New Temple or Millennium or any of that.
i suggest taking the time to read the paper above, and using the LXX.
Isaiah 9
6 For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given;
and the government shall be upond his shoulder,
and his name shall be callede
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
7 Of the increase of his government and of peace
there will be no end,
on the throne of David and over his kingdom,
to establish it and to uphold it
with justice and with righteousness
from this time forth and forevermore.
The zeal of the LORD of hosts will do this.
so you don't believe Jesus is a Ruling King now?
what's He doing?
since the Throne of David (Government) is forever, who is sitting on it right now if not Jesus?
the Queen?
British Israelism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia < click
Luke 1
Birth of Jesus Foretold
26In the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a city of Galilee named Nazareth, 27to a virgin betrothedb to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David. And the virgin’s name was Mary. 28And he came to her and said, “Greetings, O favored one, the Lord is with you!”c 29But she was greatly troubled at the saying, and tried to discern what sort of greeting this might be. 30And the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. 31And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus. 32He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. And the Lord God will give to him the throne of his father David, 33and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of his kingdom there will be no end.”
Jesus isn't The King now?
Luke 17
The Coming of the Kingdom
20Being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, he answered them, “The kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be observed, 21nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or ‘There!’ for behold, the kingdom of God is in the midst of you.”
this says He is King now:
Matthew 21
The Triumphal Entry
1Now when they drew near to Jerusalem and came to Bethphage, to the Mount of Olives, then Jesus sent two disciples, 2saying to them, “Go into the village in front of you, and immediately you will find a donkey tied, and a colt with her. Untie them and bring them to me. 3If anyone says anything to you, you shall say, ‘The Lord needs them,’ and he will send them at once.” 4This took place to fulfill what was spoken by the prophet, saying,
5 “Say to the daughter of Zion,
‘Behold, your king is coming to you,
humble, and mounted on a donkey,
anda on a colt, the foal of a beast of burden.’”
nathan i can help you unravel the Shepherd's Chapel thing.
but you have to want to know it.
otherwise there's little point continuing.
but whichever is fine with me.
N
Sadly, you got only this part right :
so your thousand years isn't a literal thousand years? it's prophetic?
( No Zone, the 1000 years is , literal, and will take place when, Christ returns just like it says in the scriptures I posted.... )
maybe it's best to do a brief summary of what you believe nathan:
a third temple will be built, ( I do not believe there will be another temple built.... )
satan will appear and claim to be Jesus, he'll trick everyone into thinking he is Jesus, all the world will worship him, then the real Jesus comes and establishes a 1,000 year reign. ( Bingo, you got this right at least. )
the rest is a jumbled mess. So i wount attempt to correct all that..... So you can not do a summery on what I believe unless you are me. Or a mind reader. so give that up... But know this, I love Christ as my LORD & Savior and read me Bible.. If you want my auto graph just ask. end of subject..
so your thousand years isn't a literal thousand years? it's prophetic?
( No Zone, the 1000 years is , literal, and will take place when, Christ returns just like it says in the scriptures I posted.... )
maybe it's best to do a brief summary of what you believe nathan:
a third temple will be built, ( I do not believe there will be another temple built.... )
satan will appear and claim to be Jesus, he'll trick everyone into thinking he is Jesus, all the world will worship him, then the real Jesus comes and establishes a 1,000 year reign. ( Bingo, you got this right at least. )
the rest is a jumbled mess. So i wount attempt to correct all that..... So you can not do a summery on what I believe unless you are me. Or a mind reader. so give that up... But know this, I love Christ as my LORD & Savior and read me Bible.. If you want my auto graph just ask. end of subject..
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I hope the thread lasts long enough to show what i learned in Romans 9-11
It sits right out in the open but (cant use that word anymore
) its been
sorta covered up with a different use and purpose to bolster a totally unrelated doctrine.
It sorta demolishes (Pre) Millennialism
But then so does 1 Cor 15.
I think it would take a page or two to explain.
Ha then noone would read it. Oh well i need the practice.
It sits right out in the open but (cant use that word anymore
) its beensorta covered up with a different use and purpose to bolster a totally unrelated doctrine.
It sorta demolishes (Pre) Millennialism
But then so does 1 Cor 15.
I think it would take a page or two to explain.
Ha then noone would read it. Oh well i need the practice.
Jesus was telling them the Kingdom of God had come upon them.
back then. which it did.
and the discussion turns to satan.
they accused Jesus of using sorcery to work His miracles, and He warned them not to do that ('by Beelzebul, the prince of demons')
........
The Talmud (Babylonian edition) records other sins of "Jesus the Nazarene":
He and his disciples practiced sorcery and black magic, led Jews astray into idolatry, and were sponsored by foreign, gentile powers for the purpose of subverting Jewish worship (Sanhedrin 43a).
He was sexually immoral, worshipped statues of stone (a brick is mentioned), was cut off from the Jewish people for his wickedness, and refused to repent (Sanhedrin 107b; Sotah 47a).
He learned witchcraft in Egypt and, to perform miracles, used procedures that involved cutting his flesh—which is also explicitly banned in the Bible (Shabbos 104b).
Who Was Jesus? < click
.........
Jesus said He was more powerful than satan, and He says He was already plundering 'satan's house'.
"But if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you. Or how can someone enter a strong man’s house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man? Then indeed he may plunder his house."
Matthew 12
Blasphemy Against the Holy Spirit
22Then a demon-oppressed man who was blind and mute was brought to him, and he healed him, so that the man spoke and saw. 23And all the people were amazed, and said, “Can this be the Son of David?” 24But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, “It is only by Beelzebul, the prince of demons, that this man casts out demons.” 25Knowing their thoughts, he said to them, “Every kingdom divided against itself is laid waste, and no city or house divided against itself will stand. 26And if Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then will his kingdom stand? 27And if I cast out demons by Beelzebul, by whom do your sons cast them out? Therefore they will be your judges. 28But if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you. 29Or how can someone enter a strong man’s house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man? Then indeed he may plunder his house. 30Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters. 31Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.
right here He talks about two ages:
And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.
He says this age, and He means then.
when He was talking to them.
the jews understood there would be a Messianic Age, or Age of the Messiah.
and naturally there was.
He came to save israel, and the gospel went to the gentiles.
The Pharisees rejected it then (and they still do)*.
He also mentions an age to come.
and the two ages are mentioned again here:
Mark 10
28Peter began to say to him, “See, we have left everything and followed you.” 29Jesus said, “Truly, I say to you, there is no one who has left house or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or lands, for my sake and for the gospel, 30who will not receive a hundredfold now in this time, houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and lands, with persecutions, and in the age to come eternal life. 31But many who are first will be last, and the last first.”
so He clearly makes the age to come the eternal state.
He says there is a Messianic/Salvation Age (Revelation 20 depicts it as an unknown length of time by using the number 1000), and there is an age to come: eternity.
Revelation 21
The New Heaven and the New Earth
1Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. 2And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling placea of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people,b and God himself will be with them as their God.c 4He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.”
........
*
Olam Ha-Ba: The Messianic Age
The world after the messiah comes is often referred to in Jewish literature as Olam Ha-Ba (oh-LAHM hah-BAH), the World to Come. This term can cause some confusion, because it is also used to refer to a spiritual afterlife. In English, we commonly use the term "messianic age" to refer specifically to the time of the messiah.
Judaism 101: Mashiach: The Messiah < click
refer back to earlier posts for confirmation of this
back then. which it did.
and the discussion turns to satan.
they accused Jesus of using sorcery to work His miracles, and He warned them not to do that ('by Beelzebul, the prince of demons')
........
The Talmud (Babylonian edition) records other sins of "Jesus the Nazarene":
He and his disciples practiced sorcery and black magic, led Jews astray into idolatry, and were sponsored by foreign, gentile powers for the purpose of subverting Jewish worship (Sanhedrin 43a).
He was sexually immoral, worshipped statues of stone (a brick is mentioned), was cut off from the Jewish people for his wickedness, and refused to repent (Sanhedrin 107b; Sotah 47a).
He learned witchcraft in Egypt and, to perform miracles, used procedures that involved cutting his flesh—which is also explicitly banned in the Bible (Shabbos 104b).
Who Was Jesus? < click
.........
Jesus said He was more powerful than satan, and He says He was already plundering 'satan's house'.
"But if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you. Or how can someone enter a strong man’s house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man? Then indeed he may plunder his house."
Matthew 12
Blasphemy Against the Holy Spirit
22Then a demon-oppressed man who was blind and mute was brought to him, and he healed him, so that the man spoke and saw. 23And all the people were amazed, and said, “Can this be the Son of David?” 24But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, “It is only by Beelzebul, the prince of demons, that this man casts out demons.” 25Knowing their thoughts, he said to them, “Every kingdom divided against itself is laid waste, and no city or house divided against itself will stand. 26And if Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then will his kingdom stand? 27And if I cast out demons by Beelzebul, by whom do your sons cast them out? Therefore they will be your judges. 28But if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you. 29Or how can someone enter a strong man’s house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man? Then indeed he may plunder his house. 30Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters. 31Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.
right here He talks about two ages:
And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.
He says this age, and He means then.
when He was talking to them.
the jews understood there would be a Messianic Age, or Age of the Messiah.
and naturally there was.
He came to save israel, and the gospel went to the gentiles.
The Pharisees rejected it then (and they still do)*.
He also mentions an age to come.
and the two ages are mentioned again here:
Mark 10
28Peter began to say to him, “See, we have left everything and followed you.” 29Jesus said, “Truly, I say to you, there is no one who has left house or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or lands, for my sake and for the gospel, 30who will not receive a hundredfold now in this time, houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and lands, with persecutions, and in the age to come eternal life. 31But many who are first will be last, and the last first.”
so He clearly makes the age to come the eternal state.
He says there is a Messianic/Salvation Age (Revelation 20 depicts it as an unknown length of time by using the number 1000), and there is an age to come: eternity.
Revelation 21
The New Heaven and the New Earth
1Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. 2And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling placea of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people,b and God himself will be with them as their God.c 4He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.”
........
*
Olam Ha-Ba: The Messianic Age
The world after the messiah comes is often referred to in Jewish literature as Olam Ha-Ba (oh-LAHM hah-BAH), the World to Come. This term can cause some confusion, because it is also used to refer to a spiritual afterlife. In English, we commonly use the term "messianic age" to refer specifically to the time of the messiah.
Judaism 101: Mashiach: The Messiah < click
refer back to earlier posts for confirmation of this
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hey Rick, why don't we do a Millennium Challenge
anyone who is certain there is a future 1,000 year (temporary but not really) kingdom, please tell us what happens just before, during and after it.
Here's What Happens Before, During and After the Coming Millennium
anyone who is certain there is a future 1,000 year (temporary but not really) kingdom, please tell us what happens just before, during and after it.
Here's What Happens Before, During and After the Coming Millennium
Millennialism (from millennium, Latin for "thousand years"), or chiliasm in Greek, is a belief held by some Christian denominations that there will be a Golden Age or Paradise on Earth in which "Christ will reign" for 1000 years prior to the final judgment and future eternal state (the "World to Come" of the New Heavens and New Earth). This belief is derived primarily from the Book of Revelation 20:1–6. Millennialism as such is a specific form of Millenarianism.
Among Christians who hold this belief, this is not the "end of the world", but rather the penultimate age, the age just prior to the end of Satan's worldwide system in anticipation of a New Heavens and a New Earth under Jehovah's (i.e., God's) kingdom reign (Rev. 21:1). Some believe that between the millennium proper and the end of the world there will be a brief period in which a final battle with Satan will take place. After this follows the Last Judgment. Millenarian beliefs have fallen into disfavor in Mainstream Christian theology today, this was not the case during the Early Christian centuries. At least during the first four centuries, millennialism was a well-known doctrine in both East and West.[SUP][1][/SUP] Tertullian, Commodian, Lactantius, Methodius, and Apollinaris of Laodicea all advocated premillennial doctrine.
wikipedia - Millenialism
I believe that nathan3 has answered this quite sufficiently --- although you don't want scripture for the answer! The answer is in the scriptures!
The same reason that I believe Jesus loves me. . . . .Because the Bible tells me so. . . . . .
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oh yes i do dear.
i want scripture for the answer. for sure
i thank you for posting your particular belief system though.
it does help.
can we move on to some Q & A?
1) there will be a Golden Age or Paradise on Earth
could you post just what you believe on this part?
and if you would please provide a couple of the passages which you believe proves there will be a Golden Age, or Paradise on Earth (before eternity)?
i guess one thing i would want to know is if the curse is removed for that time, so that it is Paradise.
also, does something go wrong later, because it does turn out badly again for awhile at the end of the exactly 1,000 years to the second (from the moment Jesus arrives), right?
anyways - what do you mean a Golden Age? do people die?
how are they saved? are people receiving punishment according to Mosaic Law?
why is it a Golden Age? will there be a Temple? is it the Temple described by John in Revelation (New Jerusalem)? or some other temple?
t.y.
i want scripture for the answer. for sure
i thank you for posting your particular belief system though.
it does help.
can we move on to some Q & A?
1) there will be a Golden Age or Paradise on Earth
could you post just what you believe on this part?
and if you would please provide a couple of the passages which you believe proves there will be a Golden Age, or Paradise on Earth (before eternity)?
i guess one thing i would want to know is if the curse is removed for that time, so that it is Paradise.
also, does something go wrong later, because it does turn out badly again for awhile at the end of the exactly 1,000 years to the second (from the moment Jesus arrives), right?
anyways - what do you mean a Golden Age? do people die?
how are they saved? are people receiving punishment according to Mosaic Law?
why is it a Golden Age? will there be a Temple? is it the Temple described by John in Revelation (New Jerusalem)? or some other temple?
t.y.