Predestination is misunderstood...

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Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
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Our souls were baptized into bodies of depravity at birth.
Yet our same soul could have been born into a body as Adam had before Adam fell.


Romans 7:14-20


We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin.
I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do.
And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. As it is, it is no longer
I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. For I know that good itself does not dwell
in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot
carry it out. For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this
I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it
is sin living in me that does it.


Its our flesh we inherited from Adam that cripples our soul's perception and volition.
Its like one wanting to grab onto something, but his arm will not work properly.
Its like not sensing heat that would harm you.
We are blind spiritually from birth and can not know God, though we may hear about God from another.

That hearing about God from another is where God's grace enters and enables us to seek for what we can not yet see.

What is the cure for our depraved and spiritually malfunctioning prison our soul was born into?
Grace and truth combined as to counter the spiritual deafness and blindness of the body.
God's enabling power to be made able see and hear about reality as God sees reality.

If we were total depravity? Our soul could not please God even if our soul were placed inside a sinless body.
For our soul would be depraved as well.

Depraved because our soul is a slave to the body. But, the soul is not innately sinful when free from the body.
God holds every soul He provides grace (to be momentarily free of the sin nature) to be held accountable for
the choices that each soul makes while grace was making that soul free to think for itself.

Grace is not what causes right choices. Grace provides the power to be free to make a right choice.

Ramble switch off.....
 

Thunderrr-mental

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2023
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The argument against you would be.

John 3:.....19And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
The image of God in man was corrupted in the fall. Salvation is about restoring the image of God in man...with some really cool upgrades.
You don't understand total depravity. It doesn't mean that man is completely corrupt. It means that every aspect of man...the whole of a person...has been corrupted. In other words, man's mind was affected in the fall. It still functions, but it is no longer as it was created. Man's heart has been corrupted. It, too, still functions, but not as intended in creation. And so forth.
I think I will still quote you both with the same response, which you both have not acknowledged.

After the fall of Adam, Man still had the human nature conscience that God created them with. That was created to know right from wrong which God saw was good.

So man does still have something that God created him with. Which means total depravity is wrong.

Answer the question.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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I think I will still quote you both with the same response, which you both have not acknowledged.

After the fall of Adam, Man still had the human nature conscience that God created them with. That was created to know right from wrong which God saw was good.

So man does still have something that God created him with. Which means total depravity is wrong.

Answer the question.
You obviously didn't understand what I posted.
 

stilllearning

Well-known member
Oct 4, 2021
520
279
63
I think I will still quote you both with the same response, which you both have not acknowledged.

After the fall of Adam, Man still had the human nature conscience that God created them with. That was created to know right from wrong which God saw was good.

So man does still have something that God created him with. Which means total depravity is wrong.

Answer the question.
You argue against yourself. In another thread you say that eating the fruit gave man the knowledge of good and evil. Now you say that God created that in man.

So you are arguing against yourself a double minded man is unstable in all his ways. So pick which one you want to lean upon for your foundational belief. You are all over the place and inconsistent in your beliefs and argument's.
 

Thunderrr-mental

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2023
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You argue against yourself. In another thread you say that eating the fruit gave man the knowledge of good and evil. Now you say that God created that in man.

So you are arguing against yourself a double minded man is unstable in all his ways. So pick which one you want to lean upon for your foundational belief. You are all over the place and inconsistent in your beliefs and argument's.
Can you show me where I said God created evil in man.

I would like to know why I must be going insane to think such a thing.



😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊

 

Thunderrr-mental

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2023
6,321
390
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The image of God in man was corrupted in the fall. Salvation is about restoring the image of God in man...with some really cool upgrades.
You don't understand total depravity. It doesn't mean that man is completely corrupt. It means that every aspect of man...the whole of a person...has been corrupted. In other words, man's mind was affected in the fall. It still functions, but it is no longer as it was created. Man's heart has been corrupted. It, too, still functions, but not as intended in creation. And so forth.
was the image of God corrupted when he thought of the image before he created the image.

Or did he just create man with without any image in his mind.

So I want you answer question 😊

Was man created with an image of human nature before he created man.

I started this discussion hundreds of posts ago

Since now I answer all your questions,

Most of your questions you already have the answer for in your question, these are not questions you are giving me answers.

😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
14,720
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was the image of God corrupted when he thought of the image before he created the image.

Or did he just create man with without any image in his mind.

So I want you answer question 😊

Was man created with an image of human nature before he created man.

I started this discussion hundreds of posts ago

Since now I answer all your questions,

Most of your questions you already have the answer for in your question, these are not questions you are giving me answers.

😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊
Man was created in the image of God with a human nature. And yes, God considered this before He created mankind.
 

Thunderrr-mental

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2023
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Man was created in the image of God with a human nature. And yes, God considered this before He created mankind.
Thankyou.

Ok my next question is

Did man still have that human nature after the fall.

😊😊😊😊😊😊😋😋😋😋😊😊😊😊😊


This song is progress reward 😊
 

stilllearning

Well-known member
Oct 4, 2021
520
279
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Can you show me where I said God created evil in man.

I would like to know why I must be going insane to think such a thing.



😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊

You argue against yourself. In another thread you say that eating the fruit gave man the knowledge of good and evil. Now you say that God created that in man.

Not at all saying that you now say that God created evil in man. I am saying that you are now saying that God created the "knowledge" of good and evil in man. Which prior you said that eating the fruit gave the "knowledge" of good and evil. These are two different opinions on the same matter.
 

Thunderrr-mental

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2023
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You argue against yourself. In another thread you say that eating the fruit gave man the knowledge of good and evil. Now you say that God created that in man.

Not at all saying that you now say that God created evil in man. I am saying that you are now saying that God created the "knowledge" of good and evil in man. Which prior you said that eating the fruit gave the "knowledge" of good and evil. These are two different opinions on the same matter.
Where have I said God created evil in man.

You have still yet to show me.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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Thankyou.

Ok my next question is

Did man still have that human nature after the fall.

😊😊😊😊😊😊😋😋😋😋😊😊😊😊😊


This song is progress reward 😊
Man has always had a human nature. It's what differentiates him from all else in creation biologically.
 

Thunderrr-mental

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2023
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Man has always had a human nature. It's what differentiates him from all else in creation biologically.
Yes but can you answer if man still had a human nature that still had good in it after the fall. That Existed in him before the fall.


 

stilllearning

Well-known member
Oct 4, 2021
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279
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Where have I said God created evil in man.

You have still yet to show me.
God did not create the knowledge of good and evil in man that came by the eating of the tree. God will rectify that as he will make a new world where just like in the beginning we will have no knowledge of good and evil. Just good. We will only know the God who says he is love and the God who says he is good.

Isaiah 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
 

Thunderrr-mental

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2023
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God did not create the knowledge of good and evil in man that came by the eating of the tree. God will rectify that as he will make a new world where just like in the beginning we will have no knowledge of good and evil. Just good. We will only know the God who says he is love and the God who says he is good.

Isaiah 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
This is now the third time of asking this question.


I'm still waiting for you to show me where I said God created evil in man.

so can you show it.

😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊

⚔️⚔️ ⚔️ ⚔️ ⚔️ ⚔️ ⚔️ ⚔️ ⚔️⚔️ ⚔️



 

stilllearning

Well-known member
Oct 4, 2021
520
279
63
this is now the third time of asking thus questions.


I'm still waiting for you to show me where I said God created evil in man.

so can you show it.

😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊

⚔️⚔️ ⚔️ ⚔️ ⚔️ ⚔️ ⚔️ ⚔️ ⚔️⚔️ ⚔️



Are you ESL by chance? I find that you don't fully understand English. As if you read what I said it would be clear that I never said that and your fixation on what was never said nor implied leads me to believe that English may be a second language to you.
 

Cameron143

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Mar 1, 2022
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Yes but can you answer if man still had a human nature that still had good in it after the fall. That Existed in him before the fall.


Romans 3:12...there is none that doeth good, no, not one...
Luke 18:19...none is good, save one, that is, God..
 

Thunderrr-mental

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2023
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Romans 3:12...there is none that doeth good, no, not one...
Luke 18:19...none is good, save one, that is, God..
Oooo well 😂

You haven't answered the question.

The question is my friend, after the fall did man have a human nature that still had good in it. 😊

Time for the chords of opening 😊


😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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Oooo well 😂

You haven't answered the question.

The question is my friend, after the fall did man have a human nature that still had good in it. 😊

Time for the chords of opening 😊


😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊
The verses answer the question. You just don't like the answer.