Predestination is misunderstood...

[cv5]

Unbelief is willfully refusing to drink the cup of marriage betrothal offered by Christ Jesus, likewise the cup symbolizing the entering into the New Covenant.

And yes, many choose not to drink. Their CHOICE. Very obvious by simple observation. Anyone MAY drink......but not everyone chooses to drink.

These cups....

Luk 22:17
And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, Take this, and divide it among yourselves:
Luk 22:20
Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.

How many people do you know that make a free will choice to refuse the offer of marriage (and redemption) that the Bridegroom has made also of His own free will (and at great cost and Personal sacrifice)?
Furthermore, how many can plead ignorance at this point in history? Bibles are FREELY available, and there are living breathing Israelites right now in the land of Israel.

IMO God always has a witness, and is always calling. Its just that few care to respond.

Rev 22:17
And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

 

[Genez]

In Him, Who is before the foundation of the world, we have been chosen for future glory.

A future glory which right now is beyond our comprehension...

We need to have our resurrection body first so we can handle it.

​

However, as it is written: “What no eye has seen, what no ear has heard, ​

and what no human mind has conceived” — the things God has prepared ​

for those who love him— 1 Corinthians 2:9​

​

​

grace and peace!​

​

​

 

[reneweddaybyday]

IMO God always has a witness, and is always calling.

so true ... and I believe God has always used the foolishness of preaching to save those who believe ... from the earliest writings in Genesis. Jude 1:14 speaks of Enoch preaching Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints.

Its just that few care to respond.

In Romans 10:9 we read if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus.

The word "confess" is translated from the Greek word homologéō which simply means means to speak the same thing, i.e. "assent, agree with, confess, declare, admit".

So the gospel is presented to someone and he or she agrees "yes, Jesus Christ is Lord" and he or she believes in his or her heart that God raised Him from the dead ... and he or she is saved.

God always makes the first move ... He always reaches out to mankind first ... and God uses believers to reach out to the world. Believers are charged with speaking the truth of God's Word, not man's wisdom.

What are we holding out to others so that God may draw them to Himself?
.

 

[Genez]

You should choose scripture that actually contains the word predestined. Thanks.

The next verse was the logical conclusion of what I presented..

Next verse now included.

For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless ​

in his sight. In love he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, ​

in accordance with his pleasure and will."​

​

Ephesians 1:4-5​

​

Eve's body was predestined in Adam.

Just as... we, the bride of Christ, had been predestined "in Him."


........

 

[John146]

The next verse was the logical conclusion of what I presented..

Next verse now included.

For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless ​

in his sight. In love he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, ​

in accordance with his pleasure and will."​

​

Ephesians 1:4-5​

​

Eve's body was predestined in Adam.

Just as... we, the bride of Christ, had been predestined "in Him."


........

Not one person is predestined to be in Christ. One does not become predestined until they first trust the gospel and placed in Christ. Once in Christ, God predestines the believer unto the future adoption which is the redemption of the body.

Btw, Eve was not predestinated to be in Adam.

 

[Genez]

Not one person is predestined to be in Christ. One does not become predestined until they first trust the gospel and placed in Christ. Once in Christ, God predestines the believer unto the future adoption which is the redemption of the body.

Btw, Eve was not predestinated to be in Adam.

I love the way you get everything right.......
Try being wrong next time.

In the mean while, I will try to get this thread back on topic..

Do what you must ......

 

[John146]

I love the way you get everything right.......
Try being wrong next time.

In the mean while, I will try to get this thread back on topic..

Do what you must ......

Scripture gets everything right. I'm just allowing scripture to define itself not a RCC priest.

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

Question: What is the adoption? The adoption is the future redemption of the body. Those who trust Christ have their future determined by God.

Romans 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

 

[Genez]

Scripture gets everything right. I'm just allowing scripture to define itself not a RCC priest.

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

Question: What is the adoption? The adoption is the future redemption of the body. Those who trust Christ have their future determined by God.

Romans 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

Adoption as used back then by Paul was a Roman custom for the wealthy.
It was not like what we know adoption as being today.

When a wealthy Roman man's son came of age his father would call him before him.
If the father saw that the son failed to achieve the needed character and integrity to inherit his wealth?
That father would then seek out for some fine young man having character and integrity and would
"adopt" him as his heir to replace his unqualified biological son.

Its the way they did things back then.

We need to wait for our adoption, because until we have our resurrection body? No one would have the perfection
required of God to inherit the wealth of His glorious powers.

In that sense, our old self will be replaced by our new self when resurrected...

Hope that helps..

 

[John146]

Adoption as used back then by Paul was a Roman custom for the wealthy.
It was not like what we know adoption as being today.

When a wealthy Roman man's son came of age his father would call him before him.
If the father saw that the son failed to achieve the needed character and integrity to inherit his wealth?
That father would then seek out for some fine young man having character and integrity and would
"adopt" him as his heir to replace his unqualified biological son.

Its the way they did things back then.

We need to wait for our adoption, because until we have our resurrection body? No one would have the perfection
required of God to inherit the wealth of His glorious powers.

In that sense, our old self will be replaced by our new self when resurrected...

Hope that helps..

I have the pure and perfect word of God to define adoption. The Holy Spirit used the word adoption. It is the context of predestination, not salvation. I already have salvation, but I’m waiting on the adoption, that is, the redemption of the body.

 

[Genez]

I have the pure and perfect word of God to define adoption. The Holy Spirit used the word adoption. It is the context of predestination, not salvation. I already have salvation, but I’m waiting on the adoption, that is, the redemption of the body.

Maybe you do not realize it?
But we are in agreement.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

I have the pure and perfect word of God to define adoption. The Holy Spirit used the word adoption. It is the context of predestination, not salvation. I already have salvation, but I’m waiting on the adoption, that is, the redemption of the body.

Maybe you do not realize it?
But we are in agreement.

Ephesians 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children [Greek - huiothesia] by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will

I looked up huiothesia in Thayer's:

b. the nature and condition of the true disciples of Christ, who by receiving the Spirit of God into their souls become the sons of God (see υἱός τοῦ Θεοῦ, 4): Romans 8:15; Galatians 4:5; Ephesians 1:5 ​

Thayer's also adds:

it also includes the blessed state looked for in the future life after the visible return of Christ from heaven; hence, ἀπεκδέχεσθαι υἱοθεσίαν, to wait for adoption, i. e. the consummate condition of the sons of God, which will render it evident that they are the sons of God, Romans 8:23, cf. Romans 8:19.​

As used in Ephesians 1:5, who is referred to as having been predestinated unto the adoption of children? ... it appears to me that, according to Ephesians 1:1, it is the saints ... the faithful in Christ Jesus ...

Ephesians 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus

... does this mean that until a person is born again, he or she is part of the general pool of humanity as shown in Eph 2:2-3 ... then once a person is one of the faithful in Christ Jesus (i.e. born again), those are the ones who were predestinated unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to Himself?


p.s. Genez - I appreciated your explanation of adoption (Post 6988).
.

 

[John146]

... does this mean that until a person is born again, he or she is part of the general pool of humanity as shown in Eph 2:2-3 ... then once a person is one of the faithful in Christ Jesus (i.e. born again), those are the ones who were predestinated unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to Himself?

This...

 

[reneweddaybyday]

This...

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[Psalm1]

Could well have been actually because if there is one thing Satan does well is to know his enemy. Jesus knew His enemy well which is why He could shut them up so quick with a single rebuttal.

Good post by you.
Someone wanted to muddy you up with a red X.
Hit you and run away.
I see a lot of that here on the board.

 

[homwardbound]

The next verse was the logical conclusion of what I presented..

Next verse now included.

For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless ​

in his sight. In love he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, ​

in accordance with his pleasure and will."​

​

Ephesians 1:4-5​

​

Eve's body was predestined in Adam.

Just as... we, the bride of Christ, had been predestined "in Him."
.

Predestined to see and choose to believe God or not consciously, no matter how anyone acts, thanks Genez, that be what I get from the post
God loves us all equally, Wow! to me anyways

 

[homwardbound]

Could well have been actually because if there is one thing Satan does well is to know his enemy. Jesus knew His enemy well which is why He could shut them up so quick with a single rebuttal.

I accidentally hit the X button and then removed it
Noticing this as well, Jesus never fought anyone, just replied truth to everyone, never accused or used truth, but to tell truth, amazing
As when they went against him and he said to them, they defy God's direct commands in getting money from the people, by denying taking care of parents in need
What? Yeh you say to that person you can give that to me, it is good not denial. They give to the Church and the parents of them suffer, really.
So many traditions deny the Laws of God that are there as good for us the people to use correctly and just love in mercy and truth righteously, led by God to give or not give at whenever God says is best for us at least me thanks. learning daily to listen to God overt myself and others as well. That is exactly what Jesus did in his walk here on earth, before the death, burial as proof then the resurrection as proof of new life in trusting Father love everything, one else, including self