Pride goes before destruction

[Jason0047]

Have you ever lost your salvation?

Jesus saved me using a tract called "This was your life" in 1992. For a good while I was on fire for the Lord and was telling everyone about Jesus. But in time, I had slid back into the ways of the world. I believe James 5:19-20. I had backslidden into sin as a believer during a certian period in my life but I always believed Jesus was my Savior. For a time I chased after riches and wanting to be successful and known by the world. But Jesus says he that shall save his life shall lose it, but he that shall lose his life for his sake shall save it. So I renewed my faith back in the Lord and repented of my backslidden ways. When I did that, I realized then that I was not saved during the time I was living for myself and not God. Oh, yes. I would try to include God in certain things I did and I even witnessed, too. But I knew that my life was not in line with the faith as described in the Bible when I looked back in retrospect (Especially after studying His Word in more depth). So I renewed my faith (i.e. repented of my sinful ways and direction) in 2010. This is when God answered my prayer than in bringing a Christian woman into my life (Who lives half way across the world).

 

[Sirk]

Jesus saved me using a tract called "This was your life" in 1992. For a good while I was on fire for the Lord and was telling everyone about Jesus. But in time, I had slid back into the ways of the world. I believe James 5:19-21. I had backslidden into sin as a believer during a certian period in my life but always believed Jesus was my Savior. For a time I chased after riches and wanting to be successful and known by the world. But Jesus says he that shall save his life shall lose it, but he that shall lose his life for his sake shall save it. So I renewed my faith back in the Lord and repented of my backslidden ways. When I did that, I realized then that I was not saved during the time I was living for myself and not God. Oh, yes. I would try to include God in certain things I did and I even witnessed, too. But I knew that my life was not in line with the faith as described in the Bible when I looked back in retrospect (Especially after studying His Word in more depth). So I renewed my faith (i.e. repented of my sinful ways and direction) in 2010. This is when God answered my prayer than in bringing a Christian woman into my life (Who lives half way across the world).

but did you lose your salvation?

 

[Jason0047]

but did you lose your salvation?

Yes. But I repented of my sins and came back. See James 5:19-20. This shows that a believer can backslide into sin and go from a saved state to an unsaved state and then back to saved state again. The Parable of the Prodigal son also tell us this, too. The Prodigal son was considered dead to the Father when he was prodigal.

 

[Jason0047]

If we can cease from sin in this life, then why send Jesus to come and shed his blood and be crucified? Just give us the Spirit because we already have the law. What in the world would I need grace for if I can keep the law.

I think that having a desire to cease from sin is having a desire for the righteousness of God and in order to live righteously in this present evil world we are going to need the grace of God through the Spirit to do it. To suffer in the flesh is to resist the sin that dominates the members (or cells) of our flesh. When we do so by grace, we cease from having the flesh dominate the members of our body of flesh. Christ is the one who has crucified the affections and lusts of the flesh through death and has raised us up so that sin does not have to have dominion over us. We have to appropriate that by faith and if we fail we receive grace and go on, not excusing our sin but knowing that it was crucified so that we don't live in any condemnation of it. We are free from the sin and its condemnation because of the cross. Christ was crucified in our stead and was condemned for our sin through death, even the sin we commit after we are saved by grace and receive his imputed righteousness.

Rom 8:31-34

31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

Because Jesus needed to break the curse of Adam and pay for sin in our past lives. Also, Jesus is our Heavenly High priest, too. His sacrifice allows Him to act as a mediator between God the Father and man. He can be our advocate if we do happen to sin. Jesus did not come so as to give us a license to sin or to say that we should never worry about sin anymore. Jesus came to set the captives free from sin. So that we would no longer be slaves to it. Jesus came to forgive and to set us free from sin. Jesus says if you sin, you are a slave to sin. Do you believe Jesus? The Scriptures says, Jesus Christ was manifested to destroy the works of the devil. The works of the devil is sin. So Jesus was manifested to destroy the works of the devil within all believer's lives.

 

[tribesman]

but did you lose your salvation?

Yes. But I repented of my sins and came back. See James 5:19-20. This shows that a believer can backslide into sin and go from a saved state to an unsaved state and then back to saved state again. The Parable of the Prodigal son also tell us this, too. The Prodigal son was considered dead to the Father when he was prodigal.

This going in and out of salvation thingy I have not seen at any other place than here at CC. Who taught you this, Jason?

 

[Jason0047]

I know what James says and I know that scripture from Hebrews I already explained to seek out holiness means. Then you bring in the double minded man scripture that is once again speaking of habitual sinning. For a double minded man believes they can serve the Lord and continue to serve their habitual sin lifestyle.

How is habitual sin any different if a person says they will always sin or be a slave to their sin? Does not making an allowance for occasional sin or not striving to stop in one's sin make an allowance or an excuse for sin to be in your life?

As for holiness: Well, holiness is living correctly before God and it is not in constantly stumbling. In other words, I cannot say an alcoholic is sober free until he puts away his drink once and for all. If he were to struggle with the drink on occasion, then that means he is still a struggling alcoholic.

But the Scriptures say... sin shall not have dominion over us.

Nobody at least not me is saying God approves of sin so please stop bringing that up, because stating that is the same fruitless and false debate and accusation as those who claim those who don't believe in OSAS teach a works to earn salvation doctrine. They are both false and fruitless lies to use in debates.

But see, if you believe God's Word teaches that we will never stop sinning, then that must mean God must approve of a believer living in sin on those certain occasions in their life. For can a marriage expect to stay together if a husband cheats on her on occasion versus say.... cheating on her habitually?

Ananias and Sapphira were struck dead because the blasphemed the Holy Spirit................Lying to the Spirit is blasphemy !!!

No. Jesus says if you speak bad against the Spirit specifically it is considered blasphemy. That is what blasphemy is. Speaking wrong against God. Ananais and Sapphira did not speak bad against the Spirit. They merely lied about their giving to God. Their sin was lying. Not blasphemy.

Which blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is unforgivable so once again you are using a flawed debate to compare the unforgivable sin to all others.........You can not do that !!!

While there are different types of degrees of sin; Sin is still sin and it shows that even one sin can destroy a person's life.

This and I never said those two were saved, as I debated against others who have just recently tried to say they were.
A person who blasphemies the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven and therefore will not have salvation, which is why the Holy Spirit struck them dead; Because of their blasphemy toward Him !!!

No. Nowhere does the text say that Ananais and Sapphira spoke against the Spirit. They merely lied. They didn't commit blasphemy.

 

[Jason0047]

This going in and out of salvation thingy I have not seen at any other place than here at CC. Who taught you this, Jason?

God did by His Word. Read James 5:19-20.

See, people think they need some man to teach them the Scriptures. But we are guided into all truth by the Spirit.

For can you save your life and yet still save it? Or are you supposed to lose your life for Christ's sake so you can save it?

 

[Viligant_Warrior]

The bible is the authorative word but to deny that the Holy Spirit will guide a person to other people or sources to help with understanding would be a false and bad way to understand studying.

This is my final comment to you, brother, until someone tells me you have gotten over your ego and have stopped arguing partial truths and stopped scrambling, misinterpreting, or parsing Scripture.

Having opened on that negative note, I want to tell you, sincerely, I like you, Ken. You have a sense of humor about you that you hide far too much, and I believe you are sincere in what you post. I have hope that you might open your eyes to the truths that you deny, and begin to pull away from the false doctrines you espouse. Others here are too arrogant and angry to overcome their own fallacies, but you are not. You're a good man, Ken. Please read what I say here with an open mind and understand I say them with love, even though they will hurt.

Your comment that I've quoted at the beginning of this post is your ultimate Straw Man. It is the logical fallacy you pull out to convict everyone who won't accept your lost-salvation-active-signs-and-wonders doctrine. This is where you always go in the end, because in the end, this lie is all you have left: "You people deny the power of the Holy Spirit!"

Not only is that a lie, it is hateful. It is borders on arrogance, as though you and those who hold to your doctrine are far superior to anyone else, by having an understanding that they apparently do not have, and further that they, as you accuse, outright deny.

Secondly, you elevate the Holy Spirit above Jesus Christ, and that truly is blasphemy. Your focus is on "the power of the Holy Spirit" without crediting the work of Christ that makes that power apparent to us in our lives, and by faith in Whom that power is expended on our behalf. I'm not sure you realize you do this, I would urge you to think carefully about who you glorify, and why.

The doctrines you defend are fluff and flash, with no substance. You, ISIT, and others have insisted throughout the course of this thread, for example, that the Holy Spirit "empowers" you to do work. I've challenged you repeatedly, all of you, to post Scripture that proves that. You've posted nothing that does so.

You've attempted to redefine passages to make them say that. You've lifted passages out of context and misstated what they say. You've even attempted to use totally unrelated Scripture to prove your point. When all this is pointed out to you, you turn on the opponent challenging you, rather than giving a solid exegetically and lexically supported explanation of why your interpretation is "correct."

Discussing the subject with you is like grasping at the wind. Destroy one of your arguments, you magically appear on the other side of the circle with some other nonsensical, out-of-context, deliberate or unlearned misinterpretation of a completely different passage or doctrine that may or may not be related to the actual point.

You continually make utterly flabbergasting statements, like this one:

The term once saved always saved was coined by John Calvin ...

Calvin didn't coin that phrase. In fact, being late-medieval German, he wouldn't even have put the words together like that. The reality is that "once saved, always saved" is a 20th century construct and may even have originally been used by critics of Eternal Security as an epithet toward their opponents.

It's major faux pas like this that you constantly appear in your posts that you don't even realize severely undermine whatever credibility you might believe to have acquired. Nonetheless, Ken, I believe you are sincere and mostly honest man. You are blinded by bad teaching and selfishly cling to it despite its obvious fallacies. I love you in Christ. I urge you to examine yourself, please. God bless, but for now, I'm done.

 

[Jason0047]

The problem here is that folks think they can serve two masters. Jesus said you will hate the one and love the other.

 

[tribesman]

God did by His Word. Read James 5:19-20.

See, people think they need some man to teach them the Scriptures. But we are guided into all truth by the Spirit.

I'd say that quite a few people these days think they need no one to teach them anything about the Scriptures, they only need to "be guided" by "the Spirit" and then in a sudden they know "all truth". And, lo and behold, we have thousands upon thousands of denominations and counting.

But let's see what said scripture says then:

James 5

[19] Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
[20] Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

This is obviously speaking of brethren, of saved souls, it is about restoring an erring brother who may have gotten into the damnable heresies, back to the truth. Doing so is an excellent and great work in the sight of the Lord. This is as well an allusion to the sayings of Solomon (Prov.10:12) that these sins (delving into heresies) are blotted out before God. This occurs when a beloved brother admonishes an erring, sinning brother, and the latter is thereby restored again to fellowship with God and his brethren. The text says nothing about going in and out of salvation.

 

[psalm6819]

No. How many sins did it take for Adam to do in order for all mankind to be under sin and death?

How many times does Jesus have to be crucified for man to be forgiven???

Hint: For by one man's...

 

[kennethcadwell]

There have been intriguing developments taking place between pages 22-24. Ken's eyes are opening and Jason's blasphemous ego is on full display like never before.

I always told you and others that I never fully agreed with how Jason, even though a couple of you continued to try and make that leap !!!

 

[Jason0047]

I'd say that quite a few people these days think they need no one to teach them anything about the Scriptures, they only need to "be guided" by "the Spirit" and then in a sudden they know "all truth". And, lo and behold, we have thousands upon thousands of denominations and counting.

No. Men are ultimately taught the truth in the Scriptures by God. Yes, there are teachers in the body of Christ. However, there are also those who do not need teachers because God teaches them, though.

"But the anointing which you have received of him abides in you, and you need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teaches you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it has taught you, you shall abide in him." (1 John 2:27).

But let's see what said scripture says then:

This is obviously speaking of brethren, of saved souls, it is about restoring an erring brother who may have gotten into the damnable heresies, back to the truth. Doing so is an excellent and great work in the sight of the Lord. This is as well an allusion to the sayings of Solomon (Prov.10:12) that these sins (delving into heresies) are blotted out before God. This occurs when a beloved brother admonishes an erring, sinning brother, and the latter is thereby restored again to fellowship with God and his brethren. The text says nothing about going in and out of salvation.

No. James 5:19-20 does talk about salvation. It is all too clear (if you are open to seeing it). Let's break the passage down into bite sized pieces and see what it is saying at face value.

"Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth,"

James says here that a fellow believer (or brother) can err from the truth (i.e. the faith). For James is writing to believers and not unbelievers and says to them.... "if any of YOU do err from the truth." Jesus Christ is the way the truth and the life.

"...and one convert him;"

James says here if one converts him. Meaning, converts him spiritually. For what kind of other conversion can this be talking about?

"Let him know, that he who converts the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins."

So we learn here what type of conversion is taking place. It is converting a fellow brother so as to save their soul from death and in hiding a multitude of sins. Many believe that this is talking about physical death and physical sin that is causing problems in a believer's life. But there is no physical sin that is different than spiritual sin. Sin is sin. If one sins, they sin both physically and spiritually. Also, everyone dies and there are even many believers who sin and yet do not die physically. So this is talking about spiritual death.

 

[Rosesrock]

Yes. But I repented of my sins and came back. See James 5:19-20. This shows that a believer can backslide into sin and go from a saved state to an unsaved state and then back to saved state again. The Parable of the Prodigal son also tell us this, too. The Prodigal son was considered dead to the Father when he was prodigal.

I know this wont help but im gonna try. The word says everlasting life, salvation is eternal.and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall anyman pluck them out of my hand.

I know you're gonna twist that with scripture you've twisted because you believe you can lose your salvation, but eternal means forever

 

[Jason0047]

I know this wont help but im gonna try. The word says everlasting life, salvation is eternal.and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall anyman pluck them out of my hand.

I know you're gonna twist that with scripture you've twisted because you believe you can lose your salvation, but eternal means forever

No. Everlasting life is not a super power. Everlasting life is a person named Jesus Christ. For he that has the Son has life and he that does not have the Son does not have life (1 John 5:12). For Jesus Christ alone possesses immortality (1 Timothy 6:16).

 

[Jason0047]

No. Men are ultimately taught the truth in the Scriptures by God. Yes, there are teachers in the body of Christ. However, there are also those who do not need teachers because God teaches them, though.

"But the anointing which you have received of him abides in you, and you need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teaches you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it has taught you, you shall abide in him." (1 John 2:27).



No. James 5:19-20 does talk about salvation. It is all too clear (if you are open to seeing it). Let's break the passage down into bite sized pieces and see what it is saying at face value.



James says here that a fellow believer (or brother) can err from the truth (i.e. the faith). For James is writing to believers and not unbelievers and says to them.... "if any of YOU do err from the truth." Jesus Christ is the way the truth and the life.



James says here if one converts him. Meaning, converts him spiritually. For what kind of other conversion can this be talking about?



So we learn here what type of conversion is taking place. It is converting a fellow brother so as to save their soul from death and in hiding a multitude of sins. Many believe that this is talking about physical death and physical sin that is causing problems in a believer's life. But there is no physical sin that is different than spiritual sin. Sin is sin. If one sins, they sin both physically and spiritually. Also, everyone dies and there are even many believers who sin and yet do not die physically. So this is talking about spiritual death.

Also, when one reads James 5:19-20, they also have to read this in context (From the previous chapter), too.

"You adulterers and adulteresses, know you not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God. Do you think that the scripture says in vain, The spirit that dwells in us lusts to envy? But he gives more grace. Therefore he says, God resists the proud, but gives grace unto the humble. Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.Draw near to God, and he will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double-minded. Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness.Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up. (James 4:4-10).

 

[Rosesrock]

No. Everlasting life is not a super power. Everlasting life is a person named Jesus Christ. For he that has the Son has life and he that does not have the Son does not have life (1 John 5:12). For Jesus Christ alone possesses immortality (1 Timothy 6:16).

Good morning mr jason

No everlastinglife isnt a fantasy power and yes christ, who gives himself the noun. Forever

 

[Sirk]

No. Men are ultimately taught the truth in the Scriptures by God. Yes, there are teachers in the body of Christ. However, there are also those who do not need teachers because God teaches them, though.

"But the anointing which you have received of him abides in you, and you need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teaches you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it has taught you, you shall abide in him." (1 John 2:27).



No. James 5:19-20 does talk about salvation. It is all too clear (if you are open to seeing it). Let's break the passage down into bite sized pieces and see what it is saying at face value.



James says here that a fellow believer (or brother) can err from the truth (i.e. the faith). For James is writing to believers and not unbelievers and says to them.... "if any of YOU do err from the truth." Jesus Christ is the way the truth and the life.



James says here if one converts him. Meaning, converts him spiritually. For what kind of other conversion can this be talking about?



So we learn here what type of conversion is taking place. It is converting a fellow brother so as to save their soul from death and in hiding a multitude of sins. Many believe that this is talking about physical death and physical sin that is causing problems in a believer's life. But there is no physical sin that is different than spiritual sin. Sin is sin. If one sins, they sin both physically and spiritually. Also, everyone dies and there are even many believers who sin and yet do not die physically. So this is talking about spiritual death.

So I'm just guessing here, but you're one of those guys that God teaches all by his lonesome? So in terms of say a relationship you can say...."well God told me x so therefore you have no say in the matter because God told me." This is the spiritual/emotional abuser to which I was referring to...that you exhibit the symptoms of being. You're an abuser my friend.

 

[Jason0047]

Good morning mr jason

No everlastinglife isnt a fantasy power and yes christ, who gives himself the noun. Forever

The Scriptures say everlasting life is a person. Read 1 John 5:12 and 1 Timothy 6:16. One can only have life in the Son. So when people say they can be out of fellowship with Christ and still be saved, they are lying.

 

[Viligant_Warrior]

So I'm just guessing here, but you're one of those guys that God teaches all by his lonesome?

I understand this place is for rent.

Seems appropriate for the seer-and-prophet type.