Prophesied by Joel...

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Edify

Well-known member
#81
Jan 27, 2021
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#81
Num. 11: 27-29
King James Bible
27And there ran a young man, and told Moses, and said, Eldad and Medad do prophesy in the camp. 28And Joshua the son of Nun, the servant of Moses, one of his young men, answered and said, My lord Moses, forbid them. 29And Moses said unto him, Enviest thou for my sake? would God that all the LORD'S people were prophets, and that the LORD would put his spirit upon them!

Moses himself prophesied what God would do in the last days.

Paul tells us that all the church can prophesy.
1 Cor 14: 29Have two or three prophets speak, and have the others pass judgment. 30But if a revelation is made to another who is seated, then the first one is to keep silent. 31For you can all prophesy one by one, so that all may learn and all may be [l]exhorted; 32and the spirits of prophets are subject to prophets; 33for God is not a God of confusion, but of peace.

It's all there for anyone to read.
 
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lrs68

Well-known member
#82
Dec 30, 2024
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#82
Edify said:
No one that I know of has never considered that if all the Jews that day were Hebrew-speaking, tongues would not have been needed, but the 120 would have still prophesied because of their baptism to fulfill the prophecy of Joel.
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The real issue concerning the mention by Peter in reference towards the Prophecy of Joel 2 is that the literal Prophecy is to happen before the Glorious Day of the Lord or as we title it the Second Coming of Jesus.

But as we read the Prophecy of Joel 2 we see the mentioning of the early rain or former rain [which covers the 3,000 people saved in Acts Chapter 2] and then we read about the Latter Rain that is to happen before the Second Coming of Jesus Christ.

Also what is very notable about the Prophecy of Joel 2 is the mentioning of men and women would be vital in the preaching and testifying of God. And women were property in the days of Acts Chapter 2+ Apostles like Paul wouldn't allow women to preach.

So we know that would happen in the Latter Rain which even today we are seeing women preaching.

So it's extremely vital to differentiate between the Early Rain and the Latter Rain of the Prophecy of Joel 2 in order to understand what happened in Acts Chapter 2 and what's still going to happen soon in the coming days.
 
Wansvic

Wansvic

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#83
Nov 27, 2018
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#83
Blain said:
So are you saying if one does not speak in tongues they are not filled with the spirit?
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I believe the word of God, and it reveals that speaking in tongues is the sign of the infilling of the Holy Spirit.
 
Wansvic

Wansvic

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#84
Nov 27, 2018
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#84
Magenta said:
Broken record much? You keep repeating the same thing despite the very prevalent FACT that it does not prove your point.
But your wishful thinking comes through loud and clear.

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Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
 
Wansvic

Wansvic

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#85
Nov 27, 2018
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#85
Magenta said:
Broken record much? You keep repeating the same thing despite the very prevalent FACT that it does not prove your point.
But your wishful thinking comes through loud and clear.

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What are your thoughts concerning the questions presented in the post?

Jesus said to ask for the Holy Ghost. How would a person know they needed to ask for the Holy Ghost if there is no evidence when the experience takes place? (Luke 11:13)

How did the Samaritans know they had not received the Holy Ghost yet? And what happened to make them aware the experience had taken place? (Acts 8:12-18)

Paul asked the 12 Ephesus disciples, Have you received the Holy Ghost since your believed? How did Paul expect them to know if they had the Holy Ghost yet. Consider as well, Paul's question was an easy one to answer after the Ephesus disciples actually received the Holy Ghost. Why? Because the experience was confirmed by their speaking in tongues. (Acts 19:1-7)
 
Wansvic

Wansvic

Well-known member
#86
Nov 27, 2018
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#86
Blain said:
Except for the fact that the fruits of the spirit are the evidence of it not tongues that is a gift of the spirit not evidence of it, if one does not have the spirit they are not born again and saved so by your logic I am not saved
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We are all on a journey. Jesus said believers who continue in His word will know the truth and the truth will set them free. (John 8:31-32) He also said God will give the Holy Spirit to those who ask. (Luke 11:13) Why would Jesus tell people to ask for the Holy Spirit if they automatically receive the Holy Spirit when they first believed?
 
Wansvic

Wansvic

Well-known member
#87
Nov 27, 2018
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#87
wolfwint said:
I mean a person who is filled with the Holy Spirit dont lie and teach false doctrines. The RCC is an example for that.
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The Holy Spirit leads willing people into all truth. (John 16:13)
 
Wansvic

Wansvic

Well-known member
#88
Nov 27, 2018
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#88
wolfwint said:
Jesus did not taught, that the proof for getting the Holy Spirit is the gift of speaking in tongues. The gift of speaking in tounges was in Pauls time one among multi gifts. A gift which not every believer got. 1.Cor.12, 29-30.
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Do you deny that 100% of the individuals in Acts 2:2-4, 10:43-48, 19:1-7 spoke in tongues when they received God's gift of the Holy Spirit?
 
Wansvic

Wansvic

Well-known member
#89
Nov 27, 2018
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#89
Blain said:
Show me where it says the evidence of the spirit is the gift of tongues, not an added interpretation where does it say that? not to mention Jesus breathed the spirit into the apostles did he not? they didi not initially speak in tongues at that moment now did they?
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I shared scriptures that record the actual event over and over yet you refuse to accept what they reveal. (Acts 2:2-4, 10:43-48, 19:1-7)

Jesus did tell the apostles to receive the Holy Spirit. He also told them the Holy Spirit could not come until after He departed. Note what Peter revealed in Acts 2:33, "Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he (Jesus) hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear."

Commentary: There are two views of Jesus’ breathing on the disciples in relation to their receiving the Holy Spirit. One view is that Jesus breathed the Holy Spirit onto the disciples in John 20:22 to empower them until the day of Pentecost in Acts 2:4 when they would receive the Holy Spirit permanently. The reception of the Holy Spirit in John 20:22 was a temporary filling of the Holy Spirit, preparatory to the permanent indwelling to come later. In John 20, the disciples were filled in a manner similar to how Bezalel was filled in Exodus 31:2–3. The reception of the Holy Spirit in Acts 2:4, then, was the baptism of the Holy Spirit, which resulted in the disciples being indwelt by the Holy Spirit permanently (Romans 8:9; 1 Corinthians 12:13).

The other view is that Jesus’ breathing on the disciples in John 20:22 did not impart the Holy Spirit at that time; rather, the breathing was a promise—an anticipation of the coming Pentecost. The Spirit did not come upon them at that moment, but Jesus gave them a pledge that they would soon be endowed with the Holy Spirit and with power from on high.
 
wolfwint

wolfwint

Senior Member
#90
Feb 15, 2014
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#90
Edify said:
When the 120 in the upper room received the baptism in the Holy Spirit, TWO gifts were manifested: 1. Prophecy, because Acts said they spoke of the wonderful works of God, & 2. tongues, so that the thousands could hear them in their own languages.
Because of this, both prophecy and/or tongues are evidence. Thru Acts different ones spoke in tongues as they were baptized, & Joel & Peter confirms that all listed would prophesy.
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Still Jesus taught not that the sign that someone received the Holy Spirit is speaking in tongues.
Wansvic said:
Do you deny that 100% of the individuals in Acts 2:2-4, 10:43-48, 19:1-7 spoke in tongues when they received God's gift of the Holy Spirit?
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This you can also see as an simply fact, to show the jews, that all kinds of people are the Adressats of the saviour and his gospel! Jews, gentiles, samaritians and those who know only the baptism of John. This events which are falsly used for to create an doctrine were not made for an doctrine!
And the reality proofed this.
 
wolfwint

wolfwint

Senior Member
#91
Feb 15, 2014
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#91
Wansvic said:
The Holy Spirit leads willing people into all truth. (John 16:13)
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✝ John 16:13

"Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will show you things to come."

I find not :" leads willing people" in this text!
So you brought a false meaning into the text!

Btw this text was spoken to the apostles!
 
Blain

Blain

The Word Weaver
#92
Aug 28, 2012
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#92
Wansvic said:
I shared scriptures that record the actual event over and over yet you refuse to accept what they reveal. (Acts 2:2-4, 10:43-48, 19:1-7)

Jesus did tell the apostles to receive the Holy Spirit. He also told them the Holy Spirit could not come until after He departed. Note what Peter revealed in Acts 2:33, "Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he (Jesus) hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear."

Commentary: There are two views of Jesus’ breathing on the disciples in relation to their receiving the Holy Spirit. One view is that Jesus breathed the Holy Spirit onto the disciples in John 20:22 to empower them until the day of Pentecost in Acts 2:4 when they would receive the Holy Spirit permanently. The reception of the Holy Spirit in John 20:22 was a temporary filling of the Holy Spirit, preparatory to the permanent indwelling to come later. In John 20, the disciples were filled in a manner similar to how Bezalel was filled in Exodus 31:2–3. The reception of the Holy Spirit in Acts 2:4, then, was the baptism of the Holy Spirit, which resulted in the disciples being indwelt by the Holy Spirit permanently (Romans 8:9; 1 Corinthians 12:13).

The other view is that Jesus’ breathing on the disciples in John 20:22 did not impart the Holy Spirit at that time; rather, the breathing was a promise—an anticipation of the coming Pentecost. The Spirit did not come upon them at that moment, but Jesus gave them a pledge that they would soon be endowed with the Holy Spirit and with power from on high.
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The event happened but they had received the holy spirit before then when Jesus breathed on them and said recieve the holu spirit they did not speak in tongues and remember when Jesus asked who they thought he was Peter replied you are the Christ and he said in return the spirit revealed it to him so they had recieved the holy spirit before the event at pentecost.
And for that matter the baptism of the holy spirit is not the same thing as having the indwelling of it they are two seperate events so nowehere does it say it is the evidence of it if it does not say it then all your doing is interpreting and that can be a dangerous game because your interpretation of it aligns with what you believe not what the word actually says and the scriptures do not say the tongues is the evidence of it
 
Blain

Blain

The Word Weaver
#93
Aug 28, 2012
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#93
Wansvic said:
We are all on a journey. Jesus said believers who continue in His word will know the truth and the truth will set them free. (John 8:31-32) He also said God will give the Holy Spirit to those who ask. (Luke 11:13) Why would Jesus tell people to ask for the Holy Spirit if they automatically receive the Holy Spirit when they first believed?
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He said this because there is a difference between recieving the indweling of the spirit and having the baptism of it
 
E

Edify

Well-known member
#94
Jan 27, 2021
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#94
wolfwint said:
✝ John 16:13

"Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will show you things to come."

I find not :" leads willing people" in this text!
So you brought a false meaning into the text!

Btw this text was spoken to the apostles!
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You seem anti- Pentecostal. Did you get burned by a similar church? I've been there, burned by an entire Pentecostal state district. :)
 
Wansvic

Wansvic

Well-known member
#96
Nov 27, 2018
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#96
wolfwint said:
Still Jesus taught not that the sign that someone received the Holy Spirit is speaking in tongues.

This you can also see as an simply fact, to show the jews, that all kinds of people are the Adressats of the saviour and his gospel! Jews, gentiles, samaritians and those who know only the baptism of John. This events which are falsly used for to create an doctrine were not made for an doctrine!
And the reality proofed this.
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The Acts 19 account confirms belief in Jesus, repentance, water baptism in the name of Jesus for remission of sin, and receiving the Holy Ghost evidenced by speaking in tongues is for all individuals. Over 20 years after 12 apostles began preaching the message, Paul presented the same message and requirements to 12 men; as such the message continued, and will until Jesus returns.

Jesus did say said unless a man is reborn he cannot SEE the kingdom. And unless a man is born of water and of Spirit he cannot ENTER into the kingdom. Jesus words pertain to all those living since His death, burial and resurrection.
 
Wansvic

Wansvic

Well-known member
#97
Nov 27, 2018
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#97
wolfwint said:
✝ John 16:13

"Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will show you things to come."

I find not :" leads willing people" in this text!
So you brought a false meaning into the text!

Btw this text was spoken to the apostles!
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I know what the scripture says. My point was people that are not willing cannot be led.
 
Wansvic

Wansvic

Well-known member
#98
Nov 27, 2018
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#98
Blain said:
The event happened but they had received the holy spirit before then when Jesus breathed on them and said recieve the holu spirit they did not speak in tongues and remember when Jesus asked who they thought he was Peter replied you are the Christ and he said in return the spirit revealed it to him so they had recieved the holy spirit before the event at pentecost.
And for that matter the baptism of the holy spirit is not the same thing as having the indwelling of it they are two seperate events so nowehere does it say it is the evidence of it if it does not say it then all your doing is interpreting and that can be a dangerous game because your interpretation of it aligns with what you believe not what the word actually says and the scriptures do not say the tongues is the evidence of it
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The Holy Spirit does not have to be inside one's body to reveal things to a person. Peter was not indwelt when he acknowledged that Jesus was the Christ. We know this because Jesus said the Holy Spirit would not come unless He departed. Acts 2:2-4, 33 reveals when the Holy Spirit was poured out and made available to all flesh; it was after Jesus was glorified.

It is not my job nor is it possible for me to make people see what the recorded events in the word reveal concerning when people actually receive the Holy Spirit. My prayer is that God will give the increase. God Bless!
 
Wansvic

Wansvic

Well-known member
#99
Nov 27, 2018
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#99
Blain said:
He said this because there is a difference between recieving the indweling of the spirit and having the baptism of it
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Clearly we are not in agreement as to what is revealed in the word. But thank you for the discussion.
 
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