Prophesied by Joel...

[Blain]

The rudeness I suffered from with you, was saying I do not think all those demonic stories you relate are believable and I will add to that by saying I do not believe the Holy Spirit is inducing these things in your life.

I made no false accusation about you whatsoever. Jesus died once and we have given to us all that we need to overcome the devil yet you expressly state you continue to battle with demons and go on and on about the particulars. Pardon me, but I don't think anyone needs to relate all the details (if true and can be with people who need deliverance or are involved with the occult etc) except to a counselor, pastor or someone capable of helping them exit such things because it is NOT the will of God that someone continually has this type of experience.

You told me I had no experience with demons and you asked if I had ever even seen one. I did not answer you because I don't fool around with those things and really, do actually want help? or do you just want to talk about it and how you battle demons and they are afraid of you. (so why do they keep on coming at you?) You should NOT be continuing to have all these demonic problems and scary dreams you relate. Where in scripture do we read Jesus ever left someone to suffer at the hands of the devil?

You just had to get another dig but it shows who you are. I am not bothering with you anymore due to your attitude and insistence that Jesus personally jumped on a demon for you (show me in scripture where we can expect that and I will show you where we are given instructions on how to deal with the demonic and it never included Jesus personally jumping on demons and sending them to hell on your behalf)

I doubt that no one has ever called you out on it before, but you just tell them they do not love God like you do etc etc. smh

and by the way all you have said about here in this post is also a lot of false accusations and untrue I never said you haven't encountered demons I asked how much experience do you have with them I also never said you didn't love God like I do in fact everything you said here is what is called false witness I never said any of this and you say I did when if one goes back to that thread and reads the posts they see who is being a liar and making false witness and being rude and your doing the same thing here in this thread just doing it to a different person and so yeah I stepped in because this is not how we ought to treat each other

 

[Wansvic]

How do you explain
Paul also states: Do all have gifts of healings? Do all speak in tongues? Do all interpret? I Cor. 12:30

It cannot be stated clearer that Paul himself acknowledged ALL do not speak in tongues. Yet you continue to state they should as evidence of being filled with Holy Spirit.

At this point it is safe to say you disagree with Paul, what he wrote and is now included in the cannon of the book we call the Bible.

Note some points concerning tongues made in a previous post:

Rightly dividing the word of truth indicates the manifestation of tongues serve different purposes:

1. As a means of confirmation that the Holy Spirit had come to dwell inside individuals. 100% had this experience. (Acts 2:4, 33; 10:43:48, 19:1-7; 8:12-18 implied) No gift of interpretation was in operation.

Additional note: Tongues evidenced the giving of the gift of the Holy Spirit had taken place.

2. Personal communication between one's renewed spirit and God's Holy Spirit. No man understands what is spoken. The experience results in personal edification without the individual knowing what God has relayed directly to their spirit. (1 Cor. 14:2)

3. Presentation of a direct message from God for the edification of those in the congregation. Someone of God's choosing interprets the message through the gift of interpretation. (1 Cor. 12)

 

[Wansvic]

How do you explain
Paul also states: Do all have gifts of healings? Do all speak in tongues? Do all interpret? I Cor. 12:30

It cannot be stated clearer that Paul himself acknowledged ALL do not speak in tongues. Yet you continue to state they should as evidence of being filled with Holy Spirit.

At this point it is safe to say you disagree with Paul, what he wrote and is now included in the cannon of the book we call the Bible.

You are conflating rules relative to two different tongue manifestations.

 

[Blain]

Wansvic believes water baptism washes away sin. So, he believes Jesus sacrifice needs some help from us.

except he said that one must first trust in Jesus but I would agree that water baptism does not cleanse one of sin

 

[Blain]

Note some points concerning tongues made in a previous post:

Rightly dividing the word of truth indicates the manifestation of tongues serve different purposes:

1. As a means of confirmation that the Holy Spirit had come to dwell inside individuals. 100% had this experience. (Acts 2:4, 33; 10:43:48, 19:1-7; 8:12-18 implied) No gift of interpretation was in operation.

Additional note: Tongues evidenced the giving of the gift of the Holy Spirit had taken place.

2. Personal communication between one's renewed spirit and God's Holy Spirit. No man understands what is spoken. The experience results in personal edification without the individual knowing what God has relayed directly to their spirit. (1 Cor. 14:2)

3. Presentation of a direct message from God for the edification of those in the congregation. Someone of God's choosing interprets the message through the gift of interpretation. (1 Cor. 12)

If I may what exactly is your belief on water baptism? do yopu believe it washes away sin or is it more than just that?

 

[Wansvic]

Wansvic believes water baptism washes away sin. So, he believes Jesus sacrifice needs some help from us.

Personal attacks are not the answer. Scripture is. And it is written in the following as well as elsewhere in scripture, The following would not be possible without trusting in Jesus' death, burial and resurrection.

"And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;" Luke 3:3

"And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem." Luke 24:47

"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." Acts 2:38

"And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord." Acts 22:16

Revealed by Peter, "To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins." Actrs 10:43
Note when the experience referenced actually took place:

"Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
"And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord." Acts 10:47-48

 

[Blain]

Personal attacks are not the answer. Scripture is. And it is written in the following as well as elsewhere in scripture, The following would not be possible without trusting in Jesus' death, burial and resurrection.

"And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;" Luke 3:3

"And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem." Luke 24:47

"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." Acts 2:38

"And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord." Acts 22:16

Revealed by Peter, "To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins." Actrs 10:43
Note when the experience referenced actually took place:

"Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
"And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord." Acts 10:47-48

So it is trusting in the name death and ressurection with the baptism of water that cleanses sin is that correct?

 

[Wansvic]

except he said that one must first trust in Jesus but I would agree that water baptism does not cleanse one of sin

I'm just curious Blain. What do you understand the following scriptures to mean?

Ananias speaking to Paul, "And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord." Acts 22:16

"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." Acts 2:38

"Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?... Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed..." Rom. 6:3-6

 

[Blain]

I'm just curious Blain. What do you understand the following scriptures to mean?

Ananias speaking to Paul, "And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord." Acts 22:16

"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." Acts 2:38

"Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?... Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed..." Rom. 6:3-6

Well the ky point is that it is by the name of Jesus with water batpism not simply water baptism itself. This is why I noted in @Oceans attack against you that you mentioned that fact but I am curious if it is the shed of blood that cleanses one of sin or if it is water baptism with the name of Jesus?

I mean if say waterbaptism is what does it then why would Jesus need to have shed his blood?

 

[Wansvic]

So it is trusting in the name death and ressurection with the baptism of water that cleanses sin is that correct?

Jesus said that repentance and remission of sins would be preached in His name to all nations Beginning in Jerusalem. (Luke 24:47) It was in Jerusalem on the Day of Pentecost that Peter said repent, and be baptized EVERYONE of you in the name of Jesus Christ for remission of sin... (Acts 2:38)

The apostles began water baptizing people in the name of Jesus after His death, burial and resurrection. According to the word it is upon obedience to the NT command that believers sins are remitted. This lines up with Jesus statement, "...Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." Mark 16:15-16.

Also, why did Ananias tell Paul to be baptized and wash away his sins calling upon the name of the Lord? (meaning Jesus) Acts 22:16

 

[Wansvic]

Well the ky point is that it is by the name of Jesus with water batpism not simply water baptism itself. This is why I noted in @Oceans attack against you that you mentioned that fact but I am curious if it is the shed of blood that cleanses one of sin or if it is water baptism with the name of Jesus?

I mean if say waterbaptism is what does it then why would Jesus need to have shed his blood?

Water baptism in and of itself does nothing but make a person wet.

It is the shed blood of Jesus that makes it possible for people to be cleansed of their sin. No one could do what only Jesus could. It was Jesus' sacrifice that paid the penalty for all mankind. However, not all take hold of what Jesus died to provide. Those who believe in Jesus act in accordance to what He has established. And submitting in obedience to the command to be water baptized in the name of Jesus brings about what the bible says it does; remission of sin. Many refuse to accept what is clearly written in the word because so many are shouting, "it says that, but that's not what it means..."

I for one chose to accept what is written and it changed my life.

 

[ocean]

except he said that one must first trust in Jesus but I would agree that water baptism does not cleanse one of sin

Would you kindly stick to the entire post instead of excerpts? this is what he said in another thread

Wansvic said:


God designed water baptism for the remission of sin. It is contingent upon having first placed one's trust in Jesus. Jesus made this clear in Mark 16:15-16.

So then we need to ask did God design water baptism for the remission of sin?

 

[ocean]

Water baptism in and of itself does nothing but make a person wet.

It is the shed blood of Jesus that makes it possible for people to be cleansed of their sin. No one could do what only Jesus could. It was Jesus' sacrifice that paid the penalty for all mankind. However, not all take hold of what Jesus died to provide. Those who believe in Jesus act in accordance to what He has established. And submitting in obedience to the command to be water baptized in the name of Jesus brings about what the bible says it does; remission of sin. Many refuse to accept what is clearly written in the word because so many are shouting, "it says that, but that's not what it means..."

I for one chose to accept what is written and it changed my life.

Interesting. So have you changed your mind about baptism then? There are many many posts wherein you say that water baptism cleanses from sin. All a person has to do is a simple search and they will find them

 

[ocean]

and by the way all you have said about here in this post is also a lot of false accusations and untrue I never said you haven't encountered demons I asked how much experience do you have with them

That is not what I stated though. Let's have a look then at what you actually did say to help you remember

Tell me how much experience do you have in actual spiritual warfare? Demons have mainfested before me have pinned me down tried to rip me apart each one stronger than the last each one with the authority of Christ have been sent back to hell
Have you ever encountered actual demons? I am not ignorant I stand in Christ if he is for us who can be against us?

Some of them I will admit were so strong I struggled to fiight against them it wss in this time I had to have Jesus himself shield me and fight for me but regardless when I was not strong enough he was. Jesus wants us to learn to be warriors against the forces of darkness if you give them any room at all they will overtake you you need to learn to understand and stand in the authoirty we have in Christ otherwise they will have all the power you let them have

Again I ask how much experience do you have in spiritual warfare and have you encountered actual demons?

You object to my saying I don't give credence to all your experiences and then want to know what experience I have dealing with demons. So, in other words, I have nothing to say if I don't have 'experience.

You took a thread off course and made it into a thread about demons. That was the main objection and I was not alone in saying you should not have done that.

As it is, I have learned you refuse to discuss anything unless the other person appreciates all your 'experience' and as I do not, I am leaving off talking to you at all. Say whatever.

 

[Blain]

Water baptism in and of itself does nothing but make a person wet.

It is the shed blood of Jesus that makes it possible for people to be cleansed of their sin. No one could do what only Jesus could. It was Jesus' sacrifice that paid the penalty for all mankind. However, not all take hold of what Jesus died to provide. Those who believe in Jesus act in accordance to what He has established. And submitting in obedience to the command to be water baptized in the name of Jesus brings about what the bible says it does; remission of sin. Many refuse to accept what is clearly written in the word because so many are shouting, "it says that, but that's not what it means..."

I for one chose to accept what is written and it changed my life.

ok I would agree on that, this is why I think the blood of Christ is the basis on which one is baptized it seems we agree on this matter pretty well, we may not agree on tongues but at least we agree on this.

 

[ocean]

Personal attacks are not the answer. Scripture is. And it is written in the following as well as elsewhere in scripture, The following would not be possible without trusting in Jesus' death, burial and resurrection.

"And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;" Luke 3:3

"And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem." Luke 24:47

"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." Acts 2:38

"And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord." Acts 22:16

Revealed by Peter, "To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins." Actrs 10:43
Note when the experience referenced actually took place:

"Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
"And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord." Acts 10:47-48

When someone, as do you, holds views most Christians would not agree with, it can confuse others. This is a public forum and what you say and have said is public so don't make what I wrote into some kind of personal attack on you. It is not. You have some different beliefs so unless you have changed your mind about them, it seems relevant to know about them.

 

[CS1]

You and I have debated this issue previously. We don't see eye to eye on this point.

Jesus prophesied that repentance and remission of sin would be preached in His name to all nations BEGINNING in Jerusalem. (Luke 24:47) Note the connection to the NT water baptism in His name-there is no record of anyone being baptized this way until the command was given at Pentecost. Peter presented the requirements associated with the NT rebirth as belief in Jesus, repentance, water baptism in His name for remission of sin and the giving of the gift of the Holy Spirit. His listeners believed his message. Those who obeyed were added to the church. (Acts 2:4-42) That reality was confirmed over and over in the word. And, I see no evidence that anything has changed. Some believe it and some do not. I share this in hopes others will come to see it, not to force it upon people.

I don't know your point. Are you saying we debated or discussed what ?

 

[Blain]

Would you kindly stick to the entire post instead of excerpts? this is what he said in another thread

Wansvic said:


God designed water baptism for the remission of sin. It is contingent upon having first placed one's trust in Jesus. Jesus made this clear in Mark 16:15-16.

So then we need to ask did God design water baptism for the remission of sin?

yes he did but the reason I pointed out that one part is because he clearly said one must first trust in the name of Jesus so he believes that the blood of Christ and the name of Jesus is needed for water baptism

 

[CS1]

You and I have debated this issue previously. We don't see eye to eye on this point.

Jesus prophesied that repentance and remission of sin would be preached in His name to all nations BEGINNING in Jerusalem. (Luke 24:47) Note the connection to the NT water baptism in His name-there is no record of anyone being baptized this way until the command was given at Pentecost. Peter presented the requirements associated with the NT rebirth as belief in Jesus, repentance, water baptism in His name for remission of sin and the giving of the gift of the Holy Spirit. His listeners believed his message. Those who obeyed were added to the church. (Acts 2:4-42) That reality was confirmed over and over in the word. And, I see no evidence that anything has changed. Some believe it and some do not. I share this in hopes others will come to see it, not to force it upon people.

You are Oneness?

 

[ocean]

yes he did but the reason I pointed out that one part is because he clearly said one must first trust in the name of Jesus so he believes that the blood of Christ and the name of Jesus is needed for water baptism

You can rearrange the deck chairs on the Titanic but that ship is still going down. He said baptism washes away sins but now seems to say he does not say that.

Is this the Bible forum or some kind of magicians trick that one can say whatever and the opposite from one post to another and still be credible?

Believe what you want as you will, but I don't know anyone who thinks washing removes sin.

At this point, you will defend anyone who disagrees with me as your little heart stickers attest to.

I am not replying to you again Blain.