Question about a bible verse

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Lynn68

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Sep 9, 2014
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Hello all, I'm sitting here this morning studying my bible in Romans, and in chapter 5:9 it says (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed(no account kept) when there is no law.
No account is kept when there is no law, so what does that mean for the people who died before Moses came?
Forgive me if there is already a thread about this....
 
Romans 2:14-15
[FONT=&quot]14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them)[/FONT]
 
Lynn68 said:
Hello all, I'm sitting here this morning studying my bible in Romans, and in chapter 5:9 it says (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed(no account kept) when there is no law.
No account is kept when there is no law, so what does that mean for the people who died before Moses came?
Forgive me if there is already a thread about this....
Click to expand...
I think it is possible to get too technical. When we repent of our sin, life becomes beautiful. That has always been the case and always will be the case.
 
This is I see with it.."When we did not know the Law..did we keep aware/account of our actions in sin? For me I was like the gentile, I would have debates inside, before I read scripture. For those before Moses, I don't know what they were doing, so that will be up to God on what happens.
 
And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
 
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures.


Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them. For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.


And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper, being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are gossips, slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful; and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them. Romans 1:18-32


For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive. 1 Corinthians 15:21-22


Adam through sin brought death to all mankind. Our own personal sin, even if there were so law, Romans 1 above shows that creation itself tells us there's a God.


God's qualities are evident to all mankind because God made it evident to them. There's an internal witness that there's a God that we're born with and creation tells us there is a God.


God's eternal power and divine nature are clearly seen through creation. Therefore all are without excuse and will fall under God's wrath. The sin of rejecting God will bring judgment against the unbeliever.


Without the law there may not be specific sin taken into account against us, but this one great sin of rejecting God falls upon all, with or without the law.
 
In reply to what happened happened to the people before Moses:

Matthew 27: [SUP]51 [/SUP]At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook, the rocks split [SUP]52 [/SUP]and the tombs broke open. The bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. [SUP]53 [/SUP]They came out of the tombs after Jesus’ resurrection and[SUP][e][/SUP] went into the holy city and appeared to many people.
 
God judged the world unworthy, repented of creating it, and sent the great flood to wipe out every creature with the breath of life from the face of the earth except for eight people (Noah and his family, and the animals collected on the ark for preservation) because mankind was so wicked and evil. That was Genesis chapter six, long before Moses...
 
Lynn68 said:
Hello all, I'm sitting here this morning studying my bible in Romans, and in chapter 5:9 it says (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed(no account kept) when there is no law.
No account is kept when there is no law, so what does that mean for the people who died before Moses came?
Forgive me if there is already a thread about this....
Click to expand...

the Law came long after the Flood, Paul is saying if there is no Law to say whats right and wrong then if you do wrong, theres no counting sin against you. lije if you hand a small child a marker and you dont explain to them " dont write on the wall" and they do, you cant then ounish them justly because they didnt Know it was wrong.

we have to first Know right and wrong, in order to be held guilty. if God had not said " thou shalt not Lie" then liars would not be in the Wrong. or if He had not said do not commit adultery, then an adulterer could not be held accountable or judged to be in the wrong.

sin was in the world before adam and eve ate the fruit, it is what deceived them into eating it and disobeying God.

romans 7:What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. 8But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.

9For I was alive without the law once: ( adam and eve) >>>but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. ( God said do not eat the fruit thats the commandment reffered to) 10And the commandment, which was ordained to life, ( that commandment was so they wouldnt eat the fruit and die) I found to be unto death. 11For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me. ( God said dont eat the fruit or you will surely die, to keep them safe, satan used the same commandment because He knew then that if they ate the fruit, they would die)

sin that is in mans nature is the issue, not the commandments, its whats living in man that sinful part of us that desires what is forbidden. satan Knew because God said " if you do this you will surely die" that if He could cause them to eat the fruit, then they would die. so He lies " surely you wont die, its good for you" He deceived them into doing what God said would Kill them.

God said it because it was true, to keep them safe ( the commandment was ordained to life, but sin deceived them and brought death) because they did exactly what God said would bring death. Had He not gave them the commandment death would never have came and satan would never have deceived them His goal was to take what was good to keep man safe and turn us against it in order to Kill us with the good commandment of God, meant to Keep us safe.

thats what Jesus solves, he died to kill the sin living in us that causes us to rebel against Gods Word, satan wants to keep that alive in us because sin is death. the lAW of sin living in us is what we die to.
 
Lynn68 said:
Hello all, I'm sitting here this morning studying my bible in Romans, and in chapter 5:9 it says (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed(no account kept) when there is no law.
No account is kept when there is no law, so what does that mean for the people who died before Moses came?
Forgive me if there is already a thread about this....
Click to expand...
I believe you are talking about verse 13 of chapter 5, the answer is with-in the context of verses 12-14 for the most part. "Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned—13 for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law.14 Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come."

Sin is in the world, the evidence is that death has reigned over all mankind, it's not counted in the leagl sense or as Paul put it in Colossian 2:13-14 "And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses,14 by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross." The Law kept a record of sin because of it's legal demand, that was not the case between Adam and Moses, but sin was still in the world. Look at verse 12's ending, "because all sinned" man was sinning and death was over them. The death here is physical and spiritual. Let's not forget that God judged the world for it's sin by killing everyone except for 8 souls in the flood. God was judging sin, yet He was not waiting.

The Law was brought by the Lord to keep an account of sin, so that the redemptive work of Christ or His fulfilling the Law and it's demands could be forgiven or taken away at the cross. Were people still saved so to speak between Adam and Moses, yes, Enoch was taken by God and Noah found grace in the sight of God. Remember the promise of the Messiah was from Genesis 3:15. God was bringing people to Himself from the begining of society. The Law was an act of love, because God now gave mankind instruction on how to worhip Him, even though it seem as though man knew how to worship Him from the begining in Able's offering to the Lord. The Lord's rejection of Cain's offering, so God has been judging mankind from the begining.

The most important part here is that chapter 4 is about faith that came through Abraham, when he was a Gentile, he was not yet circumcised. Romans 4:13-15 would be to faith what 5:12-14 is about the Law. "For the promise to Abraham and his offspring that he would be heir of the world did not come through the law but through the righteousness of faith.14 For if it is the adherents of the law who are to be the heirs, faith is null and the promise is void.15 For the law brings wrath, but where there is no law there is no transgression."

Notice the Law brings wrath, faith brings righteousness and faith was before the Law, was there wrath before the Law? Yes, Genesis 6, that was God's wrath or judgement against sin in the world.

I remember an older gentlemen telling me to understand salvation and the Christian life I needed to read the book of Romans. Once I understood chapter one read chapter 2 and if there was something I did not understand in chapetr 2, go back and read chapter one and any time I did not understand a chapter of Romans go back and read the previous chapter. It is a good rule of thumb when reading any of the epistles, if there is something you do not understand go back and read what was before it and it can help clearify it for you. Romans is just structured in a way that reading chapters give clearity to the order of salvation.
 
Johnny_B said:
I remember an older gentlemen telling me to understand salvation and the Christian life I needed to read the book of Romans. Once I understood chapter one read chapter 2 and if there was something I did not understand in chapetr 2, go back and read chapter one and any time I did not understand a chapter of Romans go back and read the previous chapter. It is a good rule of thumb when reading any of the epistles, if there is something you do not understand go back and read what was before it and it can help clearify it for you. Romans is just structured in a way that reading chapters give clearity to the order of salvation.
Click to expand...
Thank you Johnny_B for this post and for the EE-TEOW video, it is good, it is true.
 
Lynn68 said:
Hello all, I'm sitting here this morning studying my bible in Romans, and in chapter 5:9 it says (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed(no account kept) when there is no law.
No account is kept when there is no law, so what does that mean for the people who died before Moses came?
Forgive me if there is already a thread about this....
Click to expand...
Paul's point is that there has always been law.
 
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