Mr Nathan
If the dead go directly to be with Yahshua, then who are these dead that are raised to "incorruptable" upon Yahshua's return, and where had they been the whole time in between. (i asked same thing earlier but in very poor use of english language so didt explain my question)
1 Corinthians 15:50-54, "Now I say this brothers: that flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of Yahweh; neither does corruption inherit incorruption.Behold, I show you a secret truth: we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed--In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we will be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible will have put on incorruption, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will be brought to pass the saying that is written: Death is swallowed up in victory."
I have to go into part of Revelation and the end times, because this is What Paul deals with in this chapter at the end.
I Corinthians 15:50 "Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption."
Paul is saying that you can count on this for a fact. Flesh and blood cannot be part of the Kingdom of God. Your flesh is sin. There is no way that flesh and blood can become part of the kingdom of God. This is why we have repentance, and it is also why flesh and blood will not be here when Jesus Christ's kingdom is established here on earth - ( Revelation 20:4 )
I Corinthians 15:51 "Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,"
When the details of a mystery are know, then it is no longer a mystery.
This deals with Christ return, and the change in bodies , that " we which are alive and remain at the return of Christ
( 1 Thess 4:17 )" go through. Why ? Because all people living in their flesh bodies will be changed instantly from their flesh bodies, into their new incorruptible bodies at when Christ returns -
( 1st Corinthians 15: 49-52 ). Paul says there, its at the Last Trump this happens. The last Trump of revelation is the 7th. What happens at the 7th ? Christ returns to this earth .
We have already established that each of us have two bodies in 1 Corinthians 15, one is of the flesh, and the other body is a spiritual body that is within our flesh body. The spiritual body is not made alive or freed from the flesh body until the flesh body dies.
I Corinthians 15:52 "In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed."
The time that it will take to change the natural bodies to change into their spiritual bodies will be in an instant.
Paul is telling us that this change will come "at the last trump". He identifies that trumpet as the seventh trumpet, and we know that this is the very moment when Jesus Christ comes back to earth to establish His Millennium kingdom, right here on earth. We are talking about God's trumpets here. And on the sixth trumpet Satan comes to earth to deceive the whole world.
If you are waiting for a rapture, then you are going to be raptured by someone other than Jesus Christ for He is coming to earth to set up His kingdom here. The seventh trump is the exact time when the change takes place, and Not before on the sixth.
Remember the "dead" are the "spiritually dead" in Christ. "Raised" again means to "become awakened", to become active from another existence.
Those that do not know truth, or worship Satan as their christ, are considered dead
( Revelation 20:5 ) <- They don't live, meaning, as Paul put it in 1st Corinthians 15, they don't have immortality ,unless they overcome at the end of the Lords Day when they are tested, and Satan is let loose for a short season to test them that had taken the mark.
( Revelation 20:3 ).
So that is a example of, being dead spiritually speaking, meaning, not knowing the truth of God. To draw on Christ teachings, they do not have the seal of God in their forehead
( Revelation 9: 4 ). So if they don't have that, they are these that are considered the dead , because they have not obtained eternal life through Christ yet
( Revelation 20:5 ) - these are the same people, that just took the mark, and worshiped Satan
( 52 - dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. )
The dead you can look at it as those that just worshiped Satan and are dead to the truth; they have not obtained Salvation through Christ, why ? Because they were just worshiping Satan as Paul made clear in 2nd Thessalonians chapter 2. But you see, they will still be changed into a incorruptible body at Christ return, because flesh and blood cannot be in the prescience of God..
If nothing more they are changed for Judgment, if they don't overcome at the end -
2 Corinthians 5:10
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
The good, And the Bad.
The soul will shed its flesh and blood body to take on the new spiritual body, which is the incorruptible body. ( 1st Cor 15 ) You may be spiritually dead,( no truth, or have not obtained Salvation ) but you will also take on your new incorruptible body, which you will live in for the Millennium age kingdom of Christ. ( Revelation 20:4-5 )
Everyone is going to enter into the only place whereby any soul can be judged. This change from the flesh body into your new spiritual or incorruptible body. This has nothing to do with the condition of your soul. If you were lost before, you still will be lost, and if you have received Jesus Christ and are under His shed blood, you will be in that same spiritual condition. What is happening is at the sounding of the seventh which is the last trumpet all flesh will be done away with, and all souls will now exist in their spiritual bodies.
This bring out another point to consider, for if you are changed, the instant of the sounding of the seventh trumpet into your spiritual body, then whoever you see at the sounding of the sixth trumpet, when Satan arrives is a fake. If someone claims to be Jesus Christ, and you are still in your flesh body, than that supernatural person is an impostor, a fake, a liar, an Antichrist. That can't be to hard to understand. If your kids are younger than you, or grandma is still in the nursing home, than that man is a fake.
This is what we covered above concerning I Thessalonians 4:13-17. This is why Paul does not want us ignorant concerning the dead. Death is not the end but the beginning of the new life, and Paul does not want Christians especially to be ignorant as to were the dead are.
I Thessalonians 4:14 "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with Him
Believing that Jesus died and rose again is required of all Christians. At the seventh trump God is not going to raise soul rotting in the ground, but they are already there with Him, and at Jesus coming; these souls of passed on loved ones will return with Christ to this earth.
There is not meeting half way as the rapture theory teaches, but at their arrival you who are alive at that time will be changed to the same spiritual bodies that they have.
Satan will be supernatural when he comes, and he will present himself exactly as the rapture expects him to come. The rapture dogma was developed in 1830 by Margaret MacDonald in Scotland when she was in a sick and in a mentally ill condition.
The Scottish minister Edward Irving, took this evil vision, and formed it into what is known today as "the Rapture doctrine", and through Robert Norton's book, "The restoration of Apostles and prophets; in the Catholic Apostolic church", the view became very popular. The origins of the rapture theory is documented in Dave MacPherson's book; "The Incredible Cover-up". No part of the Catholic church has ever accepted this tradition as truth, yet certain protestant churches have accepted Margaret's sick vision as truth.
Margaret MacDonald had these visions, and she later stated that "it felt very evil", but these preachers picked up on every word of it, and down through the years that "evil lie" has been honed or perfected, and polished into a tradition that much of the church world now believes in.
I Thessalonians 4:15 "For this we say by the Word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the time of the coming of the Lord, shall not prevent them which are asleep."
Like was stated before, in the Greek it states that there is no one that is alive at the Lord's coming that will precede them that are already with Him. If each soul goes back to the Father at death, then there is no way that those souls are still in the ground to be here when Jesus returns. Why? They are already there with Him.
I Thessalonians 4:16 "For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:"
This seventh trumpet is the trumpet of God and the other trumpets are the soundings angels of God, sounding out the event of the six trumpets dealing with deceptions by Satan. The trumpet is announcing that something is about to happen before that event comes into operation. The seventh trumpet announces that God has had enough of this age of the flesh, and the new kingdom is about to begin. The dead in Christ shall rise first for they are already with Him. Their soul went immediately to be with the Father when they breathed their last breathe of life in their flesh body. That can't be that hard to understand.
In verse 1 Cor 15: 50 Paul said "I want to show you a mystery", and here Paul is saying, "I don't want you to be ignorant".
I Thessalonians 4:17 "Then we which are alive, and remain, shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."
In Hebrews 12:1; "Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us."
This is the same Greek usage of the word "cloud" that he spoke in I Thessalonians 4:17. The clouds that Paul is speaking of is that we are going to gather in one large family. Joel talked of a cloud of locust, only here we are talking about a cloud of Christians. The "air" as given here is not "pneuma" or sky, but from "aemi" in the Greek, # 109 in the Strong's, and it means the "breath of life" or your "spiritual body". Just as he already taught takes place in 1 Corinthians 15: 51- 52 at " the Last Trump".
This is exactly what is said in I Corinthians 15:51, for we are all going to change in an instant into our "breath of life", or "spiritual bodies", to meet the Lord at His arrival at the seventh and last trumpet ( Revelation 11: 15-17 ) . Each of us that lives in the flesh bodies at the time of the "day of the Lord", at the seventh trumpet are going to greet the coming of Jesus in our spiritual bodies. Don't get carried away with the fairy-tales of the church world today, or you will have sealed your fate with "the mark of the beast" & not the Seal of God ( Revelation 9:4 ).
When a preacher tells you that you do not have to study Revelation or some other part of God's Word, they are trying to seal your mind into taking the mark of the beast and it robs you of the Seal of God.
There is a "sealing" time coming and it is going on right now. We are living in the final generation which started with the Jews reestablished their homeland.
Revelation 9:4 "And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads."
This is the instructions that God is giving to Satan and his fallen angels when they are coming to this earth. Your "mind" is in your forehead, and "to be sealed" is what you put in your mind that prepares you for what is coming. If you think in your mind that the rapture is true, than you have taken a lie, or "seal" of Satan the beast, and sealed your mind with his mark.
However if you have the plan of the entire Word of God in your mind then you know that you will never see Jesus Christ in the flesh, but the one claiming to be Christ is a fake and Satan, in the role of Antichrist. You need the entire Word of God to protect you from that in your Mind, for in it are all the events that allow you to keep yourself from being deceived or tempted ( Revelation 3:10 ) by the many false winds of doctrine that are going around today.
We will live the entire Millennium age of Christ's kingdom right here on earth in our spiritual/incorruptible body. Jesus is coming back to earth to stay at the seventh trumpet, and He is not leaving. If you are saved under the blood of Christ, you will never leave or be separated again from Him, ever. Those that don't make it will be turned to ashes after the Judgment.
I Corinthians 15:53 "For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality."
Through this entire chapter Paul has brought to our attention that we have two bodies. The flesh body will die at some point in time and the spiritual body which houses our spirit/soul will live on after death. "Mortal must put on immortality" applies only to the soul, for all flesh will be gone at death, or at the sounding of the seventh trumpet. So immortality applies only to the soul , even in the incorruptible body the sting of death is still present IF that soul has not received eternal life. Immortality for the soul in the Millennium age is only for those souls that did not worship Satan, and take on his name, and the number of the beast.
But the dead, in other words, those that took the mark, lived not again, meaning did not obtain eternal life, until after the end of that 1000 year reign of Christ, if they overcome Satan.
So the flesh body must be put aside before we put on our incorruptible body that will not age through the entire Millennium age ( The Lords Day ( Revelation 1: 10 ; Revelation 1: 1-7 ) .
The Word "Mortal" again means "liable to die". The object of this verse is the body, and the corruptible flesh body must be changed into the body that doesn't grow old. All through this fifteenth chapter we have documented that Christ is a live, and that he lives, and it is for that reason that we are Christians. It would be senseless to be Christians if Christ did not come out of the tomb.
"This mortal must put on immortality," again means that the soul that is mortality must also put on immortality. Christ taught in Matthew 10:25-28.
Matthew 10:25 "It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his Lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of the household?"
It is sufficient that the pupil become like his teacher. Our purpose is to keep on studying to where you can have people rely on what you say. When Christ walked the earth, if they called Him Beelzebub [Satan, or lord of the flies], know also that they will also say that you are of Satan. Jesus is telling us to not worry about it, we will have the victory.
Matthew 10:26 "Fear them not therefore: for there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid, that shall not be known.".
God has already revealed everything that you will face in His Word, and there will be nothing that you will go through that should be a surprise to you. You can expect what is prophesied to come your way, as well as the protection that will be given you by God. The thing that is important is that you are obedient to God's Word, and His Son, and keep committed to serve Him.
Matthew 10:27 "What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops."
Those things that are revealed to you by your studies, and in the night are the things that you tell others about. Jesus is telling His disciples that those thing that they here Him teaching about, those are the things to tell others about. The "Preaching from the housetops", means "to spread the Word."
Matthew 10:28 "And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear Him Which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."
Man can kill your body but no man, not even Satan can kill your soul. To "destroy" is to cause you "to perish" or "cease to exist". It is only God that can judge your soul to hell fire and that comes after the judgment day. "Mortal" means "liable to die", and whether your soul dies or not is left up to God's judgment.
I Corinthians 15:54 "So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, "Death is swallowed up in Victory." "