Question for those who believe in a Pre-Tribulation Rapture
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Here that is....
The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place.
He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, who testifies to everything he saw—that is,
the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ. Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of
this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the
time is near." Revelation 1:1-3
Keep in mind!
That's in God's time.
Not man's sense of time.
But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years,
and a thousand years are like a day. The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some
understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but
everyone to come to repentance. "2 Peter 3:8-9
grace and peace ............
The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place.
He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, who testifies to everything he saw—that is,
the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ. Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of
this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the
time is near." Revelation 1:1-3
Keep in mind!
That's in God's time.
Not man's sense of time.
But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years,
and a thousand years are like a day. The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some
understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but
everyone to come to repentance. "2 Peter 3:8-9
grace and peace ............
Generally speaking again, to those who think the Church is the bride of Christ, dare we look at the marriage of the Lamb, we read that the bride has made herself ready.
Does this sound like the Church, the body of Christ? No. There is no parallel.
Paul declared members of the body of Christ have been made complete in Christ (ἐστὲ ἐν αὐτῷ πεπληρωμένοι, Colossians 2.10).
The Church needs no “preparation.”
Why?
Because we are complete in Him!
No, the bride here is Israel and the “marriage of the Lamb” is the reconciliation of Israel with God which the prophets foretold.
Why so many remain ignorant of the OT scriptures that repeatedly declare Israel being married to the LORD (YHWH), that only further demonstrates that many believe the LORD is a serial polygamist, as is so common in here within our Westernized form of Christianity...marriage, divorce and remarriage to another...some multiple times, never reconciling, and never loyal as the LORD is loyal.
I've posted many a scripture that proves this, and some will continue to deny scripture for what it says while riding the Evangelical bandwagon.
How sad indeed.
It is ISRAEL who will make herself ready, as is shown to us in Zechariah 12.
MM
Does this sound like the Church, the body of Christ? No. There is no parallel.
Paul declared members of the body of Christ have been made complete in Christ (ἐστὲ ἐν αὐτῷ πεπληρωμένοι, Colossians 2.10).
The Church needs no “preparation.”
Why?
Because we are complete in Him!
No, the bride here is Israel and the “marriage of the Lamb” is the reconciliation of Israel with God which the prophets foretold.
Why so many remain ignorant of the OT scriptures that repeatedly declare Israel being married to the LORD (YHWH), that only further demonstrates that many believe the LORD is a serial polygamist, as is so common in here within our Westernized form of Christianity...marriage, divorce and remarriage to another...some multiple times, never reconciling, and never loyal as the LORD is loyal.
I've posted many a scripture that proves this, and some will continue to deny scripture for what it says while riding the Evangelical bandwagon.
How sad indeed.
It is ISRAEL who will make herself ready, as is shown to us in Zechariah 12.
MM
Actually, in my case, it came as I read the scriptures. I had never heard of dispensationalism or futurism or any other "ism' you care to mention. When I became a Christian, it was like having to learn a new language, for not being raised in a Christian home, most doctrinal titles were foreign to me.
I did not learn any of this from men, although good scholars have helped to clarify and organize the doctrines for me as I'm sure they will continue to do so in the future as I continue to study the word.
I did not learn any of this from men, although good scholars have helped to clarify and organize the doctrines for me as I'm sure they will continue to do so in the future as I continue to study the word.
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A good place to start is to look at the Bible as a whole, and observe for yourself the dispensations:
Adam - the only command was to not eat of just one tree. He failed.
Abraham - he was counted righteous because of his faith, which was perfected by his works of obedience to the LORD.
Noah - he too was a man of faith and was obedient in building the ark.
Moses - This was a serious shift, in that Israel was given the Law, which they promised they would obey, and yet did not. They failed
.John the Baptist - preached the Kingdom gospel of repentance and water baptism.
Jesus - preached the Kingdom Gospel of repentance and water baptism, not saying a word about His crucifixion and resurrection until the latter part of His earthly ministry ONLY to the disciples, which they did not understand and were afraid to ask Him about.
The twelve apostles - preached repentance and water baptism, never saying a word in the Gospels about the crucifixion and resurrection of Christ until the book of Acts after the LORD's ascension, and even then it was still based upon works as the perfection of their faith.
Paul - who received revelation ONLY from Christ the mystery that had been hidden in God from the creation of the world, preached ONLY by faith, believing Christ was crucified according to the scripture, buried, raised from the dead according to the scriptures. Nothing about baptism, although many were baptized, but not by Paul. Works were not a requirement under the Gospel of Grace.
Now, looking back at all that, there are still those who will say that the means for salvation was the same all throughout, never giving thought to the fact that Adam, Abraham, Noah, Moses and many, many others, were never told that they must believe in Christ Jesus.
When we see that not even Jesus Himself preached belief in His crucifixion and resurrection, where Paul did unto the Gentiles, it was NOT the same Gospel. Granted, some will so overly spiritualize scripture that they end up making Paul guilty of the sin of omission by his not having ALSO preached about the requirement for repentance and water baptism. They also forget that Jesus upheld the Law when telling one of the men He had healed to go, show himself to the high priest, and to offer up the sacrifices required by the Law of Moses.
Yep, the gobbledygook practiced by some out there of mashing everything in scripture together as if it were all saying the same thing to all peoples at all times, they betray their ignorance and/or hypocrisy when conveying such falsehoods. Universalism is good at that, as I came to understand from a Universalist preacher who thought to try and school me on that system of thought in the recent past.
MM
Adam - the only command was to not eat of just one tree. He failed.
Abraham - he was counted righteous because of his faith, which was perfected by his works of obedience to the LORD.
Noah - he too was a man of faith and was obedient in building the ark.
Moses - This was a serious shift, in that Israel was given the Law, which they promised they would obey, and yet did not. They failed
.John the Baptist - preached the Kingdom gospel of repentance and water baptism.
Jesus - preached the Kingdom Gospel of repentance and water baptism, not saying a word about His crucifixion and resurrection until the latter part of His earthly ministry ONLY to the disciples, which they did not understand and were afraid to ask Him about.
The twelve apostles - preached repentance and water baptism, never saying a word in the Gospels about the crucifixion and resurrection of Christ until the book of Acts after the LORD's ascension, and even then it was still based upon works as the perfection of their faith.
Paul - who received revelation ONLY from Christ the mystery that had been hidden in God from the creation of the world, preached ONLY by faith, believing Christ was crucified according to the scripture, buried, raised from the dead according to the scriptures. Nothing about baptism, although many were baptized, but not by Paul. Works were not a requirement under the Gospel of Grace.
Now, looking back at all that, there are still those who will say that the means for salvation was the same all throughout, never giving thought to the fact that Adam, Abraham, Noah, Moses and many, many others, were never told that they must believe in Christ Jesus.
When we see that not even Jesus Himself preached belief in His crucifixion and resurrection, where Paul did unto the Gentiles, it was NOT the same Gospel. Granted, some will so overly spiritualize scripture that they end up making Paul guilty of the sin of omission by his not having ALSO preached about the requirement for repentance and water baptism. They also forget that Jesus upheld the Law when telling one of the men He had healed to go, show himself to the high priest, and to offer up the sacrifices required by the Law of Moses.
Yep, the gobbledygook practiced by some out there of mashing everything in scripture together as if it were all saying the same thing to all peoples at all times, they betray their ignorance and/or hypocrisy when conveying such falsehoods. Universalism is good at that, as I came to understand from a Universalist preacher who thought to try and school me on that system of thought in the recent past.
MM
I'm not sure if "help" is the right word as it does raise some degree of anomaly if only on the surface. 
It fails to address the issue of the Apostles being the foundation of the Bride or any of the NT scriptures that speak of the Church as if she is Christ's wife.
I will continue to look into this matter. Another poster left me a link which I will check out as time permits.
I thank you for your time and effort and the scriptures which I will look at closer.
grace and peace.
It fails to address the issue of the Apostles being the foundation of the Bride or any of the NT scriptures that speak of the Church as if she is Christ's wife.
I will continue to look into this matter. Another poster left me a link which I will check out as time permits.
I thank you for your time and effort and the scriptures which I will look at closer.
grace and peace.
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Paul has frequently used military metaphors for describing our function.
And, here we see that we will be used as countering the enemy only as an army can...
God has something in mind for His resurrected invincible believers.
Join with me in suffering, like a good soldier of Christ Jesus.
No one serving as a soldier gets entangled in civilian affairs,
but rather tries to please his commanding officer.
2 Timothy 2:3-5
And, here we see that we will be used as countering the enemy only as an army can...
The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet.
The grace of our Lord Jesus be with you." Romans 16:20
God has something in mind for His resurrected invincible believers.
Join with me in suffering, like a good soldier of Christ Jesus.
No one serving as a soldier gets entangled in civilian affairs,
but rather tries to please his commanding officer.
2 Timothy 2:3-5
I'm not sure if "help" is the right word as it does raise some degree of anomaly if only on the surface.
It fails to address the issue of the Apostles being the foundation of the Bride or any of the NT scriptures that speak of the Church as if she is Christ's wife.
I will continue to look into this matter. Another poster left me a link which I will check out as time permits.
I thank you for your time and effort and the scriptures which I will look at closer.
grace and peace.
It fails to address the issue of the Apostles being the foundation of the Bride or any of the NT scriptures that speak of the Church as if she is Christ's wife.
I will continue to look into this matter. Another poster left me a link which I will check out as time permits.
I thank you for your time and effort and the scriptures which I will look at closer.
grace and peace.
MM
True. Paul did use those metaphors. However, you seem to have overlooked the fact that those metaphors were in relation to our warfare here on earth, mostly against our own flesh, and against the powers and principalities of the air in our prayer life rather than against flesh and blood.
Never are we called the "army of Heaven." This earth is not heavenly by any means.
MM
Never are we called the "army of Heaven." This earth is not heavenly by any means.
MM
That is how I basically came at it. I found out I was a dispensationalist before I even knew what that was.
To me it is clear God has dealt differently with different people at different times. In some ways, it is no different to how I raised my children. Different ages required different measures.
To me it is clear God has dealt differently with different people at different times. In some ways, it is no different to how I raised my children. Different ages required different measures.
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Well?
What's the plain meaning of this?
But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years,
and a thousand years are like a day. The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some
understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but
everyone to come to repentance. " 2 Peter 3:8-9
understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but
everyone to come to repentance. " 2 Peter 3:8-9
It has a plain meaning. No?
He will be also returning with His angels....
To clear the earth of all unbelievers before the Millennium begins.
That passage is NOT about the Rapture.
That is about the second coming.
The planet will be cleared of all unbelievers before the Millennium is to begin.
grace and peace ..............
To clear the earth of all unbelievers before the Millennium begins.
Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left.
Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.
“Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come.
But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night
the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house
be broken into." Matthew 24:40-43
That passage is NOT about the Rapture.
That is about the second coming.
The planet will be cleared of all unbelievers before the Millennium is to begin.
Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left.
Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.
grace and peace ..............
