Questions about reaching an agnostic

[Runningman]

So I know someone who is a professed agnostic who lets me share Bible verses, my testimonies and experiences with God, Christian music, etc. with her. I have been doing this for a while now. She knows all about the life of Jesus, what the gospel is, and some of what happened in Acts as the church began forming. Sometimes she even asks me questions about something in the Bible she is curious about.

She does not hold an anti-Christian bias, seems to support me in my efforts to grow stronger in my faith, and to preach the gospel. She sings Christian songs sometimes and even looks up Bible verses on her own sometimes. As far as I can tell she is actually pro-Christian.

All of that being said, she refuses to pray, won't even entertain it as a possibility. She says that all of the testimonies and experiences with God that I have shared are my experiences, not hers. She doesn't want to pray because, in her words, "that would be assuming God is real."

So I feel like even though she is very receptive to the Word of God, seems to like Christian lifestyle and culture, there is a brick wall standing in the way. I am not sure if there is anything else I can say or do except pray and just be available if there are any questions.

I feel like she just needs a little push, some sort of breakthrough, some experiences of her own to really jump this last hurdle.

Have you experienced anything like this in evangelism? Do you have any strategies or compelling talking points that you think would help? f you have any suggestions or guidance please feel free to share. Prayers appreciated.

Thank you.

At your service,
Brother Runningman

 

[ResidentAlien]

I wouldn't push it. At this point I'd just try to model Christ to her as much as possible.

The Lord's way is totally different than the world's way. If you don't stand out as something different she'll just write you (and Jesus) off as no different than anyone else.

If people know we profess to be Christians, trust me they're sizing us up to see whether we really do have something different.

 

[shittim]

John Wimbers Personal Pilgrimage, the video of his finding God was like this- "If you're up there, help me". If He isn't real it would mean nothing and should not be a block.

 

[Jocund]

Very interesting. Not wanting to pray because "that would be assuming God is real". Is this her way of saying that she doesn't think she could pray sincerely therefore she doesn't want to put on the appearance of "faking" it?

Does she have philosophical muses she follows? Who inspires her ideas in this case? Women tend to value social identity and social standing within groups in a way that is different than men in many cases. It is possible that her position on the matter is informed by someone that she respects as opposed to an intellectual conclusion that stands by itself.

There are different reasons for self-describing as an agnostics. More information is needed. Intellectual reasons are resolved differently than social ones.

 

[Pemican]

While you can not prove the existence of God, there is a lot of convincing evidence that this world and the universe had to have an intelligence behind it. You might give her the book "The Case for a Creator" by Lee Strobel. Many scientists are rejecting godless evolution, (because it makes no sense), in favor of intelligent design. The existence of God must be taken by faith, but it is not irrational. The scientific evidence is shouting at us.

 

[Runningman]

John Wimbers Personal Pilgrimage, the video of his finding God was like this- "If you're up there, help me". If He isn't real it would mean nothing and should not be a block.

Thank you. I'll watch this and see about sharing it.

 

[shittim]

I was speaking to a man once who declared "I don't believe in God!" to which I responded.... "maybe He doesn't believe in you?" to which he got mad, lol.

 

[shittim]

Thank you. I'll watch this and see about sharing it.

John Wimber had a music career that was really zooming, he developed the Righteous Brothers and was scheuled to go on the first American tour with the Beatles when he accepted Christ and made Him Lord of his life.
35+ years later there is a video of his titled The Kingdom of God made just a few months before he went home and in which he stated of his conversion, "it was the best decision I ever made". here is that video-

 

[Runningman]

Very interesting. Not wanting to pray because "that would be assuming God is real". Is this her way of saying that she doesn't think she could pray sincerely therefore she doesn't want to put on the appearance of "faking" it?

You got that right. She has said she doesn't want to fake it or come off disingenuous if she were to pray. It would need to be sincere to her.

Does she have philosophical muses she follows? Who inspires her ideas in this case? Women tend to value social identity and social standing within groups in a way that is different than men in many cases. It is possible that her position on the matter is informed by someone that she respects as opposed to an intellectual conclusion that stands by itself.

She said before that, in her view, religion should be effortless and seemless with reality. Kind of a "I exist, therefore I am what I am" kind of mentality. Doesn't subscribe to any secular schools of thought as far as I know and seems to be centrist/right-leaning politically.

There are different reasons for self-describing as an agnostics. More information is needed. Intellectual reasons are resolved differently than social ones.

We had the talk about the big bang theory, how something can't come from nothing. Her question is where did God come from? I said "God came from God all the way to infinity." Was that a good answer? I feel like it makes sense to me, but it didn't seem to really produce that "Ah ha! 💡" moment.

 

[Runningman]

While you can not prove the existence of God, there is a lot of convincing evidence that this world and the universe had to have an intelligence behind it. You might give her the book "The Case for a Creator" by Lee Strobel. Many scientists are rejecting godless evolution, (because it makes no sense), in favor of intelligent design. The existence of God must be taken by faith, but it is not irrational. The scientific evidence is shouting at us.

Noted. I think I'll try to find that book and give it to her after I check it out. Like I said, she will most likely receive pro-Christian material positively and with thanksgiving.

 

[Artios1]

I feel like she just needs a little push, some sort of breakthrough, some experiences of her own to really jump this last hurdle.

In my humble opinion …. which really isn’t humble ….I just say that so people think I am humble. I actually think very highly of myself…… After all, I am a son of the most High.


Anyhow…I am offering an opinion ….so take it for what it’s worth, I don’t know the person or the situation.

You used the word push and I am thinking the word salt would be better.

People don’t like to be pushed ….they like to think it’s their idea.

As the old adage goes ….”You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink”.

But….. you can salt the path along the way.

Ask God what her stumbling block is and how to meet that need or better how God can meet that need or eliminate the obstruction….obviously something from her past.

You don’t want to change her mind….You either want her to change her own mind or that she makes a new decision based on the new information.

 

[Runningman]

In my humble opinion …. which really isn’t humble ….I just say that so people think I am humble. I actually think very highly of myself…… After all, I am a son of the most High.


Anyhow…I am offering an opinion ….so take it for what it’s worth, I don’t know the person or the situation.

You used the word push and I am thinking the word salt would be better.

People don’t like to be pushed ….they like to think it’s their idea.

As the old adage goes ….”You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink”.

But….. you can salt the path along the way.

Ask God what her stumbling block is and how to meet that need or better how God can meet that need or eliminate the obstruction….obviously something from her past.

You don’t want to change her mind….You either want her to change her own mind or that she makes a new decision based on the new information.

Good point really. I guess I just need to be a good example. Definitely praying about it. Thanks.

 

[Artios1]

Example is always good and I am sure your example is superior to others she knows...But ...(and I am only going by what you wrote) You might want to look deeper into prayer/acknowledgment of God......It may be nothing, but there could be some deep rooted reason she is resistant.
Otherwise... be patient, God will give the increase.... and whether she knows it or not ....it sounds like you are actually blessing her life immensely ......because the Word of God shall not return unto him void...

Isa 55:11
So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

 

[Jocund]

We had the talk about the big bang theory, how something can't come from nothing. Her question is where did God come from? I said "God came from God all the way to infinity." Was that a good answer? I feel like it makes sense to me, but it didn't seem to really produce that "Ah ha! 💡" moment.

Interestingly, the Big Bang theory doesn't actually address where the universe came from. Big Bang traces the current cosmology back to a state of irreducible complexity within that cosmology. The model cannot speak to the existence or status of anything prior to that irreducible state. We can unscientifically speculate that either the cosmology (the physics, chemistry, and every other property of physical reality) was different prior to that point in time, or that the first state within the current cosmology was the actual initial state of all of reality. It's a common misconception that Big Bang theory addresses the initial state of the universe. It's a common misconception that the Big Bang says that something comes from nothing. The Big Bang does not address the presence or absence of states of reality prior to the point of irreducible complexity in the current cosmological makeup. It is a common misconception that the initial state of the Big Bang is necessarily a timeless or perfect state. It is a common misconception that the irreducible state of the Big Bang is necessarily irreducible in other possible cosmological configurations.

Irreducible states and perfect forms are part of a conversation that comes into play from time to time. A great model for perfect forms comes from Plato. Plato presented the idea that there exists an unexperienced perfect form of everything (e.g. a perfect circle), and that we only see imperfect manifestations of (i.e. every circle we see is an imperfect manifestation/"shadow" of a perfect circle). Plato also presented the allegory of the cave, which talks about our living experience consisting of shadows on the wall but that through revelation (escaping the cave) the true form of reality becomes clear, that the source of those shadows (the perfect forms) becomes clear. An extension of this is that all people are imperfect manifestations (shadows) of the perfect person (God). Some shadows are more true to the source of their form than others, but all are imperfect and lack substance without the source. We are saved by being in Christ (in the shape of the true form).

Roman Catholicism has an affection for Aristotle's teachings (Aristotle was Plato's student). If your friend admires great philosophical thinkers, it may resonate with her that Christian thinking can coexist and agree with Greek philosophy. Lots of ways to approach the subject. And more than an intellectual understanding, having the love of God in your heart is the treasure that is shared at the end of the day. Trust your heart! God shines through us all.

 

[shittim]

for years it was thought the universe always existed, with thew BB theory we know there was a beginning.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

So I know someone who is a professed agnostic who lets me share Bible verses, my testimonies and experiences with God, Christian music, etc. with her. I have been doing this for a while now. She knows all about the life of Jesus, what the gospel is, and some of what happened in Acts as the church began forming. Sometimes she even asks me questions about something in the Bible she is curious about.

She does not hold an anti-Christian bias, seems to support me in my efforts to grow stronger in my faith, and to preach the gospel. She sings Christian songs sometimes and even looks up Bible verses on her own sometimes. As far as I can tell she is actually pro-Christian.

All of that being said, she refuses to pray, won't even entertain it as a possibility. She says that all of the testimonies and experiences with God that I have shared are my experiences, not hers. She doesn't want to pray because, in her words, "that would be assuming God is real."

So I feel like even though she is very receptive to the Word of God, seems to like Christian lifestyle and culture, there is a brick wall standing in the way. I am not sure if there is anything else I can say or do except pray and just be available if there are any questions.

I feel like she just needs a little push, some sort of breakthrough, some experiences of her own to really jump this last hurdle.

Have you experienced anything like this in evangelism? Do you have any strategies or compelling talking points that you think would help? f you have any suggestions or guidance please feel free to share. Prayers appreciated.

Thank you.

At your service,
Brother Runningman

Are you sure that your friend understands "all about Christ" as well as His True Gospel?

1 Corinthians 2:14 NKJV - "But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."

How can an agnostic, who has not been Enabled to understand the Lord's Holy Word . . . understand His Holy Word? If your friend [has] been Enabled, they are, in fact, a True Believer. The W(ord of Christ is clear, however, that He does not cast His Pearls (Faith) upon pigs (those who are not of the Holy Elect).

What do you think?

 

[Runningman]

Are you sure that your friend understands "all about Christ" as well as His True Gospel?

1 Corinthians 2:14 NKJV - "But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."

How can an agnostic, who has not been Enabled to understand the Lord's Holy Word . . . understand His Holy Word? If your friend [has] been Enabled, they are, in fact, a True Believer. The W(ord of Christ is clear, however, that He does not cast His Pearls (Faith) upon pigs (those who are not of the Holy Elect).

What do you think?

She understands it as a matter of head knowledge I would say. I think there is a difference between just knowing about something and believing it.

Exactly, I'm aware of not giving what is sacred to those who hate or mock the gospel. I am occasionally asked to explain Biblical concepts for her curiosities sake. I believe if someone is curious then that's a good reason to answer them.

 

[Evmur]

So I know someone who is a professed agnostic who lets me share Bible verses, my testimonies and experiences with God, Christian music, etc. with her. I have been doing this for a while now. She knows all about the life of Jesus, what the gospel is, and some of what happened in Acts as the church began forming. Sometimes she even asks me questions about something in the Bible she is curious about.

She does not hold an anti-Christian bias, seems to support me in my efforts to grow stronger in my faith, and to preach the gospel. She sings Christian songs sometimes and even looks up Bible verses on her own sometimes. As far as I can tell she is actually pro-Christian.

All of that being said, she refuses to pray, won't even entertain it as a possibility. She says that all of the testimonies and experiences with God that I have shared are my experiences, not hers. She doesn't want to pray because, in her words, "that would be assuming God is real."

So I feel like even though she is very receptive to the Word of God, seems to like Christian lifestyle and culture, there is a brick wall standing in the way. I am not sure if there is anything else I can say or do except pray and just be available if there are any questions.

I feel like she just needs a little push, some sort of breakthrough, some experiences of her own to really jump this last hurdle.

Have you experienced anything like this in evangelism? Do you have any strategies or compelling talking points that you think would help? f you have any suggestions or guidance please feel free to share. Prayers appreciated.

Thank you.

At your service,
Brother Runningman

Now it sounds like to me that she may be convinced but she has sins which she does not want to let go of which she would have to if she was to come up front ... I have met a few of those.

 

[shittim]

In those situations the person needs to understand we come to Him AS we are, but we don't stay where we are, those things that need to change will fall off as we draw close to Him. Sounds like He is knocking on the door of her heart to be this close as it sounds like she is.
blessings

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

She understands it as a matter of head knowledge I would say. I think there is a difference between just knowing about something and believing it.

I'm curious . . . what are you telling her is the Gospel of Christ? @Evmer above states that she may not want to submit to Christ because she doesn't want to give up sin. That said, most Christians do not believe that obedience is a reflection of True Salvation. So, you can see why I would ask you what she understands the Gospel to be. I also ask this, because . . . to date (and I"m about to turn 54), I've yet to EVER have one person tell me what the Gospel is, and I've been in the "church" all of my life.

In a nutshell, what is the Gospel of Christ?