I was just reading and noticed these verses, but I don't recall ever hearing about them. I could be wrong but I'm assuming this is talking about Jesus, right? I've heard verses brought up before showing a foretelling of Christs' kingdom, but I don't think I ever heard about it from these verses. Perhaps my memory is just faulty and I have just forgotten. Or, I'm simply misunderstanding these verses. Does anyone have some input to clarify things for me?
Random question regarding 2 Samuel 7:12-16
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It's a big help to others if you post the actual Scriptures you are speaking of.
12And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom.
13He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever.
14I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men:
15But my mercy shall not depart away from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I put away before thee.
16And thine house and thy kingdom shall be established for ever before thee: thy throne shall be established for ever.
ONE OPINION GIVEN I FOUND
“Moreover the LORD declares to you that the LORD will make you a house. When your days are fulfilled and you lie down with your ancestors, I will raise up your offspring after you, who shall come forth from your body, and I will establish his kingdom. He shall build a house for my name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever. I will be a father to him, and he shall be a son to me. When he commits iniquity, I will punish him with a rod such as mortals use, with blows inflicted by human beings.
This could all so easily be about Jesus, until you get to: “When he commits iniquity, I will punish him with a rod such as mortals use, with blows inflicted by human beings.”
Even if you want to say God somehow punished Jesus on the cross (uhh…), Christians don’t (generally) believe Jesus committed any iniquity.
So that part, at least, has to be about David’s literal next-of-kin descendant, Solomon.
Verses 15 and 16 go on:
1. The lectionary reading stops after v. 14a (!), so you don’t get the stuff about punishment. Is this to intentionally make it read more like it’s about Jesus?
2. The parallel passage in 1 Chronicles 17 also omits the iniquity part… does this mean the Chronicler was taking it to be a Messianic promise (only), too?
I have not found any materials that give a definitive answer if this is or is not a foretelling of the coming King. So, I suspect one must read and accept that parts may be and parts may not be. Much like the Psalms David wrote about Jesus. Some parts were a direct prophecy of Jesus and some were Davids words on other subjects.
12And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom.
13He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever.
14I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men:
15But my mercy shall not depart away from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I put away before thee.
16And thine house and thy kingdom shall be established for ever before thee: thy throne shall be established for ever.
ONE OPINION GIVEN I FOUND
“Moreover the LORD declares to you that the LORD will make you a house. When your days are fulfilled and you lie down with your ancestors, I will raise up your offspring after you, who shall come forth from your body, and I will establish his kingdom. He shall build a house for my name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever. I will be a father to him, and he shall be a son to me. When he commits iniquity, I will punish him with a rod such as mortals use, with blows inflicted by human beings.
This could all so easily be about Jesus, until you get to: “When he commits iniquity, I will punish him with a rod such as mortals use, with blows inflicted by human beings.”
Even if you want to say God somehow punished Jesus on the cross (uhh…), Christians don’t (generally) believe Jesus committed any iniquity.
So that part, at least, has to be about David’s literal next-of-kin descendant, Solomon.
Verses 15 and 16 go on:
But I will not take my steadfast love from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I put away from before you. Your house and your kingdom shall be made sure forever before me; your throne shall be established forever.
There are at least Messianic undertones to this whole passage, though. Surely God had more than just Solomon in mind when he spoke these words. He is, after all, promising a throne to David forever. Two other things:1. The lectionary reading stops after v. 14a (!), so you don’t get the stuff about punishment. Is this to intentionally make it read more like it’s about Jesus?
2. The parallel passage in 1 Chronicles 17 also omits the iniquity part… does this mean the Chronicler was taking it to be a Messianic promise (only), too?
I have not found any materials that give a definitive answer if this is or is not a foretelling of the coming King. So, I suspect one must read and accept that parts may be and parts may not be. Much like the Psalms David wrote about Jesus. Some parts were a direct prophecy of Jesus and some were Davids words on other subjects.
Have you ever read about the life of Solomon ? In the ot God continually makes promises about seeds of certain ones
eves promised son would overcome the serpent and crush his head while being wounded on his heal
the seed of Abraham, Isaac was the elect for the inheritance of Abraham father of many nations , David the son of Jesse was the chosen one later when Israel’s king was chosen , then God promised him a son who would sit upon the throne of his kingdom and Solomon was born in this promise but if you look carefully at Solomon’s blessing in the promise it is conditional of Solomon eas like his father David then the promise would be fulfilled with Solomon if he was t like David and parted from the ways of his fether a man after Gods own heart then the kingdom would be taken and given to thier enemies and God would fulfill it later
Solomon lost his way and the kingdom was rent away from them and so it seemed like the promises had failed because of imperfect men
But the. He began promising Jesus a son who would be born of a virgin by the Will and work of God and called the son of Abraham , ( isaacs role in Gods promise ) the son of David ( Solomon’s role in Gods continuing promise , the son of man ( Adam ) who would overcome the serpent and crush his head ect
when we read the gospels things like this here
“The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.”
Matthew 1:1
“The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;”
Mark 1:1 KJV
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. ….And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.”
John 1:1, 14 KJV
“Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, (which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,) concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;”
Romans 1:1-3 KJV
“Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
Galatians 3:16, 27, 29 KJV
what we’re seeing in Christ Jesus the son is God fulfilling the promises he made concerning all those “ sons” regarding the everlasting kingdom . The old covenant failed because mankind easnt right and pure enough to fulfill Gods promises Solomon didn’t live out the promise concerning him so it was fulfilled when Jesus came being the perfect sinless man and appointed king over all the earth forever
when we see those references it’s hearkening us back to the story to see what happened Jesus “ the son of David “ doesn’t mean he’s actually David’s son we know he was born of a virgin by Gods promise beforehand that a son would be born of a virgin to fulfill Gods Will because man kept messing it up he became the man to fulfill it all those failings of others like cain and Ishmael Isaac Jacob David Solomon ect
jesus fulfilled man’s part of it all the man who would fulfill those prophecies where others failed
eves promised son would overcome the serpent and crush his head while being wounded on his heal
the seed of Abraham, Isaac was the elect for the inheritance of Abraham father of many nations , David the son of Jesse was the chosen one later when Israel’s king was chosen , then God promised him a son who would sit upon the throne of his kingdom and Solomon was born in this promise but if you look carefully at Solomon’s blessing in the promise it is conditional of Solomon eas like his father David then the promise would be fulfilled with Solomon if he was t like David and parted from the ways of his fether a man after Gods own heart then the kingdom would be taken and given to thier enemies and God would fulfill it later
Solomon lost his way and the kingdom was rent away from them and so it seemed like the promises had failed because of imperfect men
But the. He began promising Jesus a son who would be born of a virgin by the Will and work of God and called the son of Abraham , ( isaacs role in Gods promise ) the son of David ( Solomon’s role in Gods continuing promise , the son of man ( Adam ) who would overcome the serpent and crush his head ect
when we read the gospels things like this here
“The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.”
Matthew 1:1
“The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;”
Mark 1:1 KJV
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. ….And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.”
John 1:1, 14 KJV
“Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, (which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,) concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;”
Romans 1:1-3 KJV
“Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
Galatians 3:16, 27, 29 KJV
what we’re seeing in Christ Jesus the son is God fulfilling the promises he made concerning all those “ sons” regarding the everlasting kingdom . The old covenant failed because mankind easnt right and pure enough to fulfill Gods promises Solomon didn’t live out the promise concerning him so it was fulfilled when Jesus came being the perfect sinless man and appointed king over all the earth forever
when we see those references it’s hearkening us back to the story to see what happened Jesus “ the son of David “ doesn’t mean he’s actually David’s son we know he was born of a virgin by Gods promise beforehand that a son would be born of a virgin to fulfill Gods Will because man kept messing it up he became the man to fulfill it all those failings of others like cain and Ishmael Isaac Jacob David Solomon ect
jesus fulfilled man’s part of it all the man who would fulfill those prophecies where others failed
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