R
Raeshelle
Guest
The thing here is like I have said before. No man knows the time or hour .. So we need to be ready at ALL times..
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Where in the bible does it say the rapture is before the tribulation? It would make me happy if all believers came to the knowledge of all truths.
You are right that no man knows the day or hour of the Lord 2nd coming but we do know it is after the tribulation.
Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
This passage starts out by telling us that Christ return is after the tribulation, and ends by saying we do not know the day or hour. We cannot accept one truth and deny the other. We are to accept the whole council of God's word. We know two things.
#1 We do not know the day or hour
#2 It is not until after the Tribulation.
P
Petertherock
Guest
My fellow Brothers and Sisters in Christ, it is imperative to remember that the Gospel of Christ, for all, is the following:
1. The Blood of Christ covered all Sins and allows a fresh start with a clean slate. All we have to do is believe and accept that truth. God set it up that way. The death of Jesus, the Christ, fulfilled all old testament Law and made it null and void.
We are now under a new covenant of "Saved by the Blood of the Resurected Jesus and by the Grace of "Abba Father" the living God.
When we get into arguments about whether the rapture is before or after the tribulation we open ourselves to attack from "Luciferian entities" representing 'Pride', 'Arrogance', and others.
Only GOD knows when the Tribulation will start and end. ONLY God knows when his son Jesus will return. It is not for you to know or worry about and least of all argue about.
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved.
No where is it said to 'Believe in the pre-Trib or the Post-Trib and you be saved'!
Your Jobs are to be prepared for our Lords return, to share the Gospel of Salvation with others, and to follow the Lords instructions in Mark 16:15-18, believe and preach v19 and act on verse 20. You find these same instructions in other gospels as well.
STOP such petty, meaningless, arguments NOW! Get back to the Word and prayer and Sharing the same with all whom you meet and whom you know.
Let your light shine, lead by example: Love the Lord your God with all your heart - Love your "neighbor" as yourself. How will you feel at the white throne judgement ( for christians only) to see that a "neighbor" did not make it and that you had a chance to testify and share Jesus with that Soul but did not, (for whatever reason)
Remember:
REMOVE ALL LOGS from your own eye before trying to remove the splinter from someone else. ( my paraphrase) Remember what is important. Do not be prideful.
Now Go forth and "Sin no more"
1. The Blood of Christ covered all Sins and allows a fresh start with a clean slate. All we have to do is believe and accept that truth. God set it up that way. The death of Jesus, the Christ, fulfilled all old testament Law and made it null and void.
We are now under a new covenant of "Saved by the Blood of the Resurected Jesus and by the Grace of "Abba Father" the living God.
When we get into arguments about whether the rapture is before or after the tribulation we open ourselves to attack from "Luciferian entities" representing 'Pride', 'Arrogance', and others.
Only GOD knows when the Tribulation will start and end. ONLY God knows when his son Jesus will return. It is not for you to know or worry about and least of all argue about.
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved.
No where is it said to 'Believe in the pre-Trib or the Post-Trib and you be saved'!
Your Jobs are to be prepared for our Lords return, to share the Gospel of Salvation with others, and to follow the Lords instructions in Mark 16:15-18, believe and preach v19 and act on verse 20. You find these same instructions in other gospels as well.
STOP such petty, meaningless, arguments NOW! Get back to the Word and prayer and Sharing the same with all whom you meet and whom you know.
Let your light shine, lead by example: Love the Lord your God with all your heart - Love your "neighbor" as yourself. How will you feel at the white throne judgement ( for christians only) to see that a "neighbor" did not make it and that you had a chance to testify and share Jesus with that Soul but did not, (for whatever reason)
Remember:
REMOVE ALL LOGS from your own eye before trying to remove the splinter from someone else. ( my paraphrase) Remember what is important. Do not be prideful.
Now Go forth and "Sin no more"
Quote: 'When we get into arguments about whether the rapture is before or after the tribulation we open ourselves to attack from "Luciferian entities" representing 'Pride', 'Arrogance', and others'.
It is quite the opposite. ALL error is deception! The enemy takes advantage of the deception and is able to bring more error into the faith of some and systematically defile and leaven the whole lump of faith. This deception brings the believer into confusion, contention, strife and division making the believer vulnerable to be sifted by the devil. Is that what you want and do you want that for others? You can have it and God will require that of you.
Do you, and those that believe as you do, want to go through the tribulation of God's wrath? Then maybe God should let it be unto you according to your faith! For those that have an intelligent faith, knowing that we are delivered 'from' the wrath to come (IThes 1:10), won't be here and don't want to be either. For God has not appointed us to wrath (1Thes 5:9). The wrath of God is for the children of disobedience (Eph 5:6, Col 3:6). Are you a child of disobedience (Eph 2:2, 5:8)? I hope not! And when Christ comes for His bride in the rapture before the tribulation of His wrath, if you do not go up, woe to you! What joy is there in looking for the mercy of our Lord. if we have to pass through the wrath of God. Why would Jesus Christ put His own bride though this terrible wrath to come? We are members of His body, flesh and bones (Eph 5:30)? Wrath does not perfect us, nor can it be used to present us faultless and without spot or wrinkle.
The tribulation period is for the nation of Israel and the Jewish people who are in unbelief, not for the church, Jesus Christ body and bride for they, both the dead and those who alive, will be caught up together in the clouds of the air to be with the LORD forever. You better thank God that it is this way and not what you preach.
It is quite the opposite. ALL error is deception! The enemy takes advantage of the deception and is able to bring more error into the faith of some and systematically defile and leaven the whole lump of faith. This deception brings the believer into confusion, contention, strife and division making the believer vulnerable to be sifted by the devil. Is that what you want and do you want that for others? You can have it and God will require that of you.
Do you, and those that believe as you do, want to go through the tribulation of God's wrath? Then maybe God should let it be unto you according to your faith! For those that have an intelligent faith, knowing that we are delivered 'from' the wrath to come (IThes 1:10), won't be here and don't want to be either. For God has not appointed us to wrath (1Thes 5:9). The wrath of God is for the children of disobedience (Eph 5:6, Col 3:6). Are you a child of disobedience (Eph 2:2, 5:8)? I hope not! And when Christ comes for His bride in the rapture before the tribulation of His wrath, if you do not go up, woe to you! What joy is there in looking for the mercy of our Lord. if we have to pass through the wrath of God. Why would Jesus Christ put His own bride though this terrible wrath to come? We are members of His body, flesh and bones (Eph 5:30)? Wrath does not perfect us, nor can it be used to present us faultless and without spot or wrinkle.
The tribulation period is for the nation of Israel and the Jewish people who are in unbelief, not for the church, Jesus Christ body and bride for they, both the dead and those who alive, will be caught up together in the clouds of the air to be with the LORD forever. You better thank God that it is this way and not what you preach.
F
Faithnhim
Guest
Technically the anti-christ is not satan but just a follower of him . And i believe Jesus is coming back for me before the tribulation . He even says he will save us from the hour of destruction. So believe what you want , but i believe Im going to heaven before the tribulation starts . GOD bless ya ,
S
shinethelightforever
Guest
Where in the bible does it say the rapture is before the tribulation? It would make me happy if all believers came to the knowledge of all truths.
If you take 1 Thess 4:16-17 and Matt 24 about the immediately after great tribulation...take both of them together. It doesn't mix. The Rapture and the Second is totally two different events. Let me ask you this, what is the rapture and what is the second coming? Lets see if we both agree on this. The rapture is when Christ rapture his saints up to heaven to be with him where has gone to prepare a place for us in John 14:1-3. The Second Coming is when Jesus comes back to the earth immediately after the great tribulation Matt 24:29-31 and he will his stand feet on mount of olives Zech 14:4. Also read Revelation 3:10 which talks about Jesus will keep us away from the hour of trail which will come upon the who world....
Well your not going to be happy because I refuse to believe in your doctrine
If you don't like that well then tough.It is not about you believing what you want and, I believing what I want, it is about what God has said in His word, and God says Jesus returns after the Tribulation to gather the elect. We cannot believe whatever we want we must believe God.
No we do not agree. No where in scripture does it say we go to heaven after the rapture, and no where dopes it say that the rapture and the 2nd coming are separated by the tribulation. When Jesus returns after the tribulation He resurrects the just, raptures the living saints, and destroys the wick all before His feet hit the ground. When we meet the Lord in the air as He is coming from Heaven to earth, at which point we receive immortal, perfected bodies, and then return with Jesus to earth to reign with Him as kings and priest during the Millennium. As you said Matthew 24:29-31 clearly shows the 2nd coming is after the tribulation, and 1st Thess 4:16-17 depict the rapture. What you must of missed in verse 15 of 1st Thess 4 tells us exactly when the rapture take place.If you take 1 Thess 4:16-17 and Matt 24 about the immediately after great tribulation...take both of them together. It doesn't mix. The Rapture and the Second is totally two different events. Let me ask you this, what is the rapture and what is the second coming? Lets see if we both agree on this. The rapture is when Christ rapture his saints up to heaven to be with him where has gone to prepare a place for us in John 14:1-3. The Second Coming is when Jesus comes back to the earth immediately after the great tribulation Matt 24:29-31 and he will his stand feet on mount of olives Zech 14:4. Also read Revelation 3:10 which talks about Jesus will keep us away from the hour of trail which will come upon the who world....
Well your not going to be happy because I refuse to believe in your doctrine
1st Thess 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
We which remain until the coming of the Lord which we have both agreed is after the Tribulation will not prevent them that sleep, because as Christ returns post tribulationaly He first resurrects the just and then raptures the living.
1st Thess 4
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
There is not question to anyone who wants to see the truth that the event spoken of in verses 16 and 17 take place at the coming of the Lord which via Matthew 24 is not until after the Tribulation.
P.S. The place Jesus has prepared for us is New Jerusalem, and not some mansion in Heaven, The ''mansion'' or abode we receive is our heavenly bodies (check out 2nd Corinthians 5:1-2), and we are going to be where Jesus is not where He was. where He was before the 2nd coming is Heaven hwere He will be after it is Earth for the Millennium.
It is not my doctrine it is God's truth, abnd if you don't accept God's truth that is on you not me. I have shared the truth with you that is all i am asked of God to do.Well your not going to be happy because I refuse to believe in your doctrine
God Bless you in your endeavors for truth.
watchmen,
This is your quote; 'When Jesus returns after the tribulation He resurrects the just, raptures the living saints, and destroys the wicked all before His feet hit the ground. When we meet the Lord in the air as He is coming from Heaven to earth, at which point we receive immortal, perfected bodies, and then return with Jesus to earth to reign with Him as kings and priest during the Millennium'.
Obviously you have stated that the church, Christ's body of believers, will go through the seven year tribulation period. If Christ comes back in my lifetime, then I would like to know what's going to happen to me or my family, especially when the wrath of God is poured out during the tribulation.There are many here on this site that may go through the tribulation as well. You owe it to them to tell them the truth. If you tell them the truth you must be able to comfort them with your words (1Thes 4:18).
1. From the scriptures, what will happen to the church, believers like you and I, during the tribulation period? Are we preaching, are we able to worship, are we able to evangelize, are we being persecuted for our faith or will we be huddled in some mountain to get away from it all waiting for Christ to return etc?
2.Will there be a great falling away in the church, becoming so apostate that when Christ comes back, shall He find faith on the earth (Luke 18:8)?
3. I know that you can't tell me how 144,000 Jews get converted after at least 2000 years of unbelief, but what is the relationship of the church with these Jews, if any? Will we have fellowship will them and will it be recognized? Did Jesus Christ reveal to John in Revelations anything about this union?
4. How will we be protected from the wrath that is poured out by the Lamb during the tribulation?
5. If the antichrist is only revealed after the Holy Spirit is taken out of the way, does that mean that God takes the Holy Spirit from all believers in the church for this to happen (2Thes 2:6-8)?
6. What do the scripture say the antichrist will do to or with the church during his reign with the beast and the false phrophet, especially when he is revealed as the antichrist during the tribulation?
This is your quote; 'When Jesus returns after the tribulation He resurrects the just, raptures the living saints, and destroys the wicked all before His feet hit the ground. When we meet the Lord in the air as He is coming from Heaven to earth, at which point we receive immortal, perfected bodies, and then return with Jesus to earth to reign with Him as kings and priest during the Millennium'.
Obviously you have stated that the church, Christ's body of believers, will go through the seven year tribulation period. If Christ comes back in my lifetime, then I would like to know what's going to happen to me or my family, especially when the wrath of God is poured out during the tribulation.There are many here on this site that may go through the tribulation as well. You owe it to them to tell them the truth. If you tell them the truth you must be able to comfort them with your words (1Thes 4:18).
1. From the scriptures, what will happen to the church, believers like you and I, during the tribulation period? Are we preaching, are we able to worship, are we able to evangelize, are we being persecuted for our faith or will we be huddled in some mountain to get away from it all waiting for Christ to return etc?
2.Will there be a great falling away in the church, becoming so apostate that when Christ comes back, shall He find faith on the earth (Luke 18:8)?
3. I know that you can't tell me how 144,000 Jews get converted after at least 2000 years of unbelief, but what is the relationship of the church with these Jews, if any? Will we have fellowship will them and will it be recognized? Did Jesus Christ reveal to John in Revelations anything about this union?
4. How will we be protected from the wrath that is poured out by the Lamb during the tribulation?
5. If the antichrist is only revealed after the Holy Spirit is taken out of the way, does that mean that God takes the Holy Spirit from all believers in the church for this to happen (2Thes 2:6-8)?
6. What do the scripture say the antichrist will do to or with the church during his reign with the beast and the false phrophet, especially when he is revealed as the antichrist during the tribulation?
Re read 1st Thess 4:13-18 the comfort is that the just will be resurrected and we will be reunited with our love ones. The comfort spoke of in 1st Thess 4:18 has nothing to do with any type of pretrib rapture.
All of the above.
Yes and Yes
I do not know, not that i can tell.
Check out Revelation 12 verses 6 and 14
You're basing your question on a false interpretation of 2nd Thess 2:6-8
Check out Revelation 13 (not a pretty site)
S
shinethelightforever
Guest
All post tribbers thinks we are crazy. Christians can mock other Christians all they want, but we will all be judge on the Day of Judgment.
If you take 1 Thess 4:16-17 and Matt 24 about the immediately after great tribulation...take both of them together. It doesn't mix. The Rapture and the Second is totally two different events. Let me ask you this, what is the rapture and what is the second coming? Lets see if we both agree on this. The rapture is when Christ rapture his saints up to heaven to be with him where has gone to prepare a place for us in John 14:1-3. The Second Coming is when Jesus comes back to the earth immediately after the great tribulation Matt 24:29-31 and he will his stand feet on mount of olives Zech 14:4. Also read Revelation 3:10 which talks about Jesus will keep us away from the hour of trail which will come upon the who world....
Well your not going to be happy because I refuse to believe in your doctrine
your logic is flawed . the resurrection of the dead in christ is before the "rapture" of the living Christians, and the resurrection fo the dead in Christ is CLEARLY in the coming of Jesus
watchmen,
4. How will we be protected from the wrath that is poured out by the Lamb during the tribulation?
Check out Revelation 12 verses 6 and 14
Are you saying that the woman represents the church in (Rev 12: 6, 13-17)? Who is the man (child) that she delivered?
5. If the antichrist is only revealed after the Holy Spirit is taken out of the way, does that mean that God takes the Holy Spirit from all believers in the church for this to happen (2Thes 2:6-8)?
You're basing your question on a false interpretation of 2nd Thess 2:6-8
Then give me the correct interpretation and tell me who is taken out of the way in (v/7) so that the Wicked can be revealed in (v/8), and who is the Wicked?
6. What do the scripture say the antichrist will do to or with the church during his reign with the beast and the false phrophet, especially when he is revealed as the antichrist during the tribulation?
Check out Revelation 13 (not a pretty site)
If the woman represents the church in (Rev 12) and she is being protected in the wilderness for (42) months, how can she be subject to what happens in (Rev 13)? Then, the next scene is (Rev 14) with a Lamb standing on Mt. Zion appearing with the 144,000 and no mention of the woman. Is the Lamb here, Jesus Christ? Is the woman still in the wilderness?
4. How will we be protected from the wrath that is poured out by the Lamb during the tribulation?
Check out Revelation 12 verses 6 and 14
Are you saying that the woman represents the church in (Rev 12: 6, 13-17)? Who is the man (child) that she delivered?
5. If the antichrist is only revealed after the Holy Spirit is taken out of the way, does that mean that God takes the Holy Spirit from all believers in the church for this to happen (2Thes 2:6-8)?
You're basing your question on a false interpretation of 2nd Thess 2:6-8
Then give me the correct interpretation and tell me who is taken out of the way in (v/7) so that the Wicked can be revealed in (v/8), and who is the Wicked?
6. What do the scripture say the antichrist will do to or with the church during his reign with the beast and the false phrophet, especially when he is revealed as the antichrist during the tribulation?
Check out Revelation 13 (not a pretty site)
If the woman represents the church in (Rev 12) and she is being protected in the wilderness for (42) months, how can she be subject to what happens in (Rev 13)? Then, the next scene is (Rev 14) with a Lamb standing on Mt. Zion appearing with the 144,000 and no mention of the woman. Is the Lamb here, Jesus Christ? Is the woman still in the wilderness?
Saved people wil be saved from the punishments God deals, but not from the persecution of the anti christ . Also the verse doesnt say the "holy spirit" is taken out. thats my whol point , youre WHOLE belief is based on cryptic verses that you think give you creative liberty "oh, it isnt clear on what this means, so i can invent my own meaning" . Just cause you don tknow what it means by "He" doesnt mean you get to fill it in. Also, i assume atleast teh 2 witnesses have the Holy Spirit, and all i really needed was ONe perosn in teh tribulation period to have the Holy Spirit to prove that the Holy Spirit isnt taken away from teh world . ALl i need is one person as an example to destroy that theory but u ahve 2. Also, without the HOly Spirit, NOBODY would be saved, yet the Bible mentions 144000 jews (which is probably symbolic) and an inumerable amount of ohters that are saved in the tribulation period
