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DanD
Guest
Re: Polygamy -- continuation of older thread.
David would have saved himself the trouble if he had not disobeyed the command regarding taking another man's wife. Remember the prophetic judgement given by Nathan the prophet, "the sword shall never depart from your house", was given because of his adultery and murder. These commands would have been broken regardless of whether David had any wives at the time he committed adultery and murder, and no doubt, the judgement pronounced would have been equally severe, and fitting for taking another man's life after taking his wife.
David would have saved himself the trouble if he had not disobeyed the command regarding taking another man's wife. Remember the prophetic judgement given by Nathan the prophet, "the sword shall never depart from your house", was given because of his adultery and murder. These commands would have been broken regardless of whether David had any wives at the time he committed adultery and murder, and no doubt, the judgement pronounced would have been equally severe, and fitting for taking another man's life after taking his wife.
Re: Polygamy -- continuation of older thread.
If you do not mind I will repost my post on that thread:
I think the problem with polygamy, regardless of manmade laws, is that one wife will be loved over the others. This is seen even in the polygamous unions in the Bible. Sarah detested the slavegirl Hagar for giving her to Abraham. Rachel was loved over Leah. Samuel's mom felt bitter and dejected and Peninnah provoked her because she had no child. David had many wives and many children, but he loved Bathsheba and Solomon and the problems did arise between Solomon and Adonijah near David's death.
It is good for a man to only have one wife and one mate and to pour all his affection into her I believe. And not just for belief, but lo not only do the problems of multiple lovers bear out in the Bible, but in our modern society very much so.
To which I'll add, those are my thoughts on the matter and what I have gleaned from the Bible and lightly touching what I have seen in fallen modern society, and I am one unmarried, though I would like to be married one day, but what are your thoughts?
If you do not mind I will repost my post on that thread:
I think the problem with polygamy, regardless of manmade laws, is that one wife will be loved over the others. This is seen even in the polygamous unions in the Bible. Sarah detested the slavegirl Hagar for giving her to Abraham. Rachel was loved over Leah. Samuel's mom felt bitter and dejected and Peninnah provoked her because she had no child. David had many wives and many children, but he loved Bathsheba and Solomon and the problems did arise between Solomon and Adonijah near David's death.
It is good for a man to only have one wife and one mate and to pour all his affection into her I believe. And not just for belief, but lo not only do the problems of multiple lovers bear out in the Bible, but in our modern society very much so.
To which I'll add, those are my thoughts on the matter and what I have gleaned from the Bible and lightly touching what I have seen in fallen modern society, and I am one unmarried, though I would like to be married one day, but what are your thoughts?
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DanD
Guest
Re: Polygamy -- continuation of older thread.
Certainly polygamy can have problems, and the OT does instruct/warn against loving one wife more than another, and diminishing your first wife's provisions. I think the biggest problem Sarah had was not so much with Hagar, but with the way Ishmael treated Isaac with scorn. The problems between Adonijah and Solomon were spelled out in Nathan's prophetic judgement for the sins of adultery and murder, when he said, "the sword will never depart out of your house." David would no doubt have had similar judgement had he been unmarried at the time he committed those sins. It is a common mistake to attribute this judgement to polygamy, but that is simply a misconception based on Western ideals. Rachel was loved over Leah, but Jacob did the right thing by not divorcing the woman he was tricked into marrying. God blessed him with twelve children, and indeed there was strife in that family, but do you think that Jacob would have been happier married only to Leah? Put yourself in his position. How would you feel knowing you had been tricked into marrying someone other than the woman you truly love? It was bad enough that he had to work an additional seven years, in essence for a wife he did not even desire!
The direction from Scripture is to love your wives. Nowhere does the Bible indicate that it is better to pour all your affection into one woman. I'm not even sure that affection is a divisible, much less quantifiable essence. You either love someone or you don't. It is quite possible to love the new wife as much as if she were your only wife, while not loving your first wife any less than when she was your only wife. If you happen to land that "trophy wife", it would be reasonable to think that you would be completely happy with her. In reality though, there have been many men who had such a wife, and found themselves in love with another woman. The problems in polygamy are different than the problems found in monogamy. The extra income is not a bad outcome.
Good luck finding a Godly wife! You might want to leave the option available for a second or third wife, by being open and honest with your first wife, before you tie the proverbial knot. Then, in the event you choose to bring another woman into the relationship, you won't face as much resistance from her, as I have faced. Point out the reality of failed marriages in our monogamous society, and assure her that you will never leave her for another woman. Explain the origins of monogamy only and how it has failed to live up to what society promises.
Certainly polygamy can have problems, and the OT does instruct/warn against loving one wife more than another, and diminishing your first wife's provisions. I think the biggest problem Sarah had was not so much with Hagar, but with the way Ishmael treated Isaac with scorn. The problems between Adonijah and Solomon were spelled out in Nathan's prophetic judgement for the sins of adultery and murder, when he said, "the sword will never depart out of your house." David would no doubt have had similar judgement had he been unmarried at the time he committed those sins. It is a common mistake to attribute this judgement to polygamy, but that is simply a misconception based on Western ideals. Rachel was loved over Leah, but Jacob did the right thing by not divorcing the woman he was tricked into marrying. God blessed him with twelve children, and indeed there was strife in that family, but do you think that Jacob would have been happier married only to Leah? Put yourself in his position. How would you feel knowing you had been tricked into marrying someone other than the woman you truly love? It was bad enough that he had to work an additional seven years, in essence for a wife he did not even desire!
The direction from Scripture is to love your wives. Nowhere does the Bible indicate that it is better to pour all your affection into one woman. I'm not even sure that affection is a divisible, much less quantifiable essence. You either love someone or you don't. It is quite possible to love the new wife as much as if she were your only wife, while not loving your first wife any less than when she was your only wife. If you happen to land that "trophy wife", it would be reasonable to think that you would be completely happy with her. In reality though, there have been many men who had such a wife, and found themselves in love with another woman. The problems in polygamy are different than the problems found in monogamy. The extra income is not a bad outcome.
Good luck finding a Godly wife! You might want to leave the option available for a second or third wife, by being open and honest with your first wife, before you tie the proverbial knot. Then, in the event you choose to bring another woman into the relationship, you won't face as much resistance from her, as I have faced. Point out the reality of failed marriages in our monogamous society, and assure her that you will never leave her for another woman. Explain the origins of monogamy only and how it has failed to live up to what society promises.
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DanD
Guest
Re: Polygamy -- continuation of older thread.
Well I agree with you a bit. Though I think in the case of Sarah it wasn't just the mistreatment of Isaac by Ishmael, but Sarah, the princess, the free woman protecting her heir, the rightful heir as it is written, Cast out the slave woman, her son will not be heir with my son. Is it not also written that Sarah after she had given Hagar to Abraham and saw that Hagar conceived that Sarah despised her? This is even before Isaac is born.
In the case of David I do agree with you, but then let us remember why Nathan came to him with that famous prophecy and parable. Was it not because David was beholden with Bathsheba and put loyal Urijah to death to possess her? A man with many lambs whom took from another man whom had only one precious lamb that he loved indeed!
I do not fault Jacob for having two wives, for that fault is in Laban whom changed his wages deceitfully. Yet is it not written that because Leah was hated the Lord opened her womb? What of the jealous contest between the two sisters?
As for monogamy; in the beginning God made one man for one woman, and the two became one flesh.
Or what does Paul say? Did he say to Timothy it is good for a man to have one wife if he is to marry?
Well I agree with you a bit. Though I think in the case of Sarah it wasn't just the mistreatment of Isaac by Ishmael, but Sarah, the princess, the free woman protecting her heir, the rightful heir as it is written, Cast out the slave woman, her son will not be heir with my son. Is it not also written that Sarah after she had given Hagar to Abraham and saw that Hagar conceived that Sarah despised her? This is even before Isaac is born.
In the case of David I do agree with you, but then let us remember why Nathan came to him with that famous prophecy and parable. Was it not because David was beholden with Bathsheba and put loyal Urijah to death to possess her? A man with many lambs whom took from another man whom had only one precious lamb that he loved indeed!
I do not fault Jacob for having two wives, for that fault is in Laban whom changed his wages deceitfully. Yet is it not written that because Leah was hated the Lord opened her womb? What of the jealous contest between the two sisters?
As for monogamy; in the beginning God made one man for one woman, and the two became one flesh.
Or what does Paul say? Did he say to Timothy it is good for a man to have one wife if he is to marry?
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Ariel82
Guest
Re: Polygamy -- continuation of older thread.
1 Timothy 2 v 3
A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
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God seems to be against it.
He made Adam and Eve..., not Eves, plural.
God allowed many things before Jesus and the new covenant. Now He says it's better for a man to have ONE wife, not many.
1 Timothy 2 v 3
A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
****
God seems to be against it.
He made Adam and Eve..., not Eves, plural.
God allowed many things before Jesus and the new covenant. Now He says it's better for a man to have ONE wife, not many.
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Ariel82
Guest
Re: Polygamy -- continuation of older thread.
Why did you need a new thread? The old one have too much you didn't want to discuss?
For anyone who didn't catch the thread first time around....
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/76842-polygamy.html
Why did you need a new thread? The old one have too much you didn't want to discuss?
For anyone who didn't catch the thread first time around....
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/76842-polygamy.html
Last edited by a moderator:
Re: Polygamy -- continuation of older thread.
Ariel,
since the OP resurrected an ancient thread that's been dead for about 5 years, I suggested he start a new one... which he did.
Ariel,
since the OP resurrected an ancient thread that's been dead for about 5 years, I suggested he start a new one... which he did.
Re: Polygamy -- continuation of older thread.
Your missing the point Dan! Was Adultery Davids only problem - of course not! The point I was making is - he should, like us, have had an eye more to what God had commanded rather than on his own selfish desires.
Your missing the point Dan! Was Adultery Davids only problem - of course not! The point I was making is - he should, like us, have had an eye more to what God had commanded rather than on his own selfish desires.
Re: Polygamy -- continuation of older thread.
This is quite a long shot, because most of us are not bishops.
And if God is really so much against it, He would say something to Abraham, Moses, David or Salomon about it.
Instead of the 1Timothy, I would try to make a case from the words of Jesus about adultery, it seems to me to be a better basis for general monogamy, but still an implicit one only.
This is quite a long shot, because most of us are not bishops.
And if God is really so much against it, He would say something to Abraham, Moses, David or Salomon about it.
Instead of the 1Timothy, I would try to make a case from the words of Jesus about adultery, it seems to me to be a better basis for general monogamy, but still an implicit one only.
Re: Polygamy -- continuation of older thread.
I do not now how men turn God's clear admonition to be faithful to your wife
into permission to go get more. Clearly it is a perversion, and a refusal to obey.
A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; KJV 1 Tim 3:2
An elder must be blameless, the husband of one wife, having children who are believers and are not open to accusation of indiscretion or insubordination. Titus 1:6
And this second thing you do. You cover the Lord's altar with tears, with weeping and groaning because he no longer regards the offering or accepts it with favor from your hand. 14 But you say, “Why does he not?” Because the Lord was witness between you and the wife of your youth, to whom you have been faithless, though she is your companion and your wife by covenant. 15 Did he not make them one, with a portion of the Spirit in their union? And what was the one God seeking? Godly offspring. So guard yourselves in your spirit, and let none of you be faithless to the wife of your youth.16 “For the man who does not love his wife but divorces her, says the Lord, the God of Israel, covers his garment with violence, says the Lord of hosts. So guard yourselves in your spirit, and do not be faithless.”Malachi 2:13-16
May your fountain be blessed, and may you rejoice in the wife of your youth. Prov 5:18
It is not just, do not divorce, but be faithful to the wife of your youth.
I do not now how men turn God's clear admonition to be faithful to your wife
into permission to go get more. Clearly it is a perversion, and a refusal to obey.
A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; KJV 1 Tim 3:2
An elder must be blameless, the husband of one wife, having children who are believers and are not open to accusation of indiscretion or insubordination. Titus 1:6
And this second thing you do. You cover the Lord's altar with tears, with weeping and groaning because he no longer regards the offering or accepts it with favor from your hand. 14 But you say, “Why does he not?” Because the Lord was witness between you and the wife of your youth, to whom you have been faithless, though she is your companion and your wife by covenant. 15 Did he not make them one, with a portion of the Spirit in their union? And what was the one God seeking? Godly offspring. So guard yourselves in your spirit, and let none of you be faithless to the wife of your youth.16 “For the man who does not love his wife but divorces her, says the Lord, the God of Israel, covers his garment with violence, says the Lord of hosts. So guard yourselves in your spirit, and do not be faithless.”Malachi 2:13-16
May your fountain be blessed, and may you rejoice in the wife of your youth. Prov 5:18
It is not just, do not divorce, but be faithful to the wife of your youth.
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DanD
Guest
Re: Polygamy -- continuation of older thread.
I am a life-long Baptist...raised IFB, now SBC.
I am a life-long Baptist...raised IFB, now SBC.
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DanD
Guest
Re: Polygamy -- continuation of older thread.
I am not a Bishop. I am curious how you concluded that God is against it. Polygamy is not for everyone; the fact that God did not make Adam a second wife, only means that polygamy was not meant for him. you cannot apply that universally. What Scripture reference do you have, where God supposedly said that it's better to have ONE wife. Even if He had said such a thing, that would not make having multiple wives a sin.
I am not a Bishop. I am curious how you concluded that God is against it. Polygamy is not for everyone; the fact that God did not make Adam a second wife, only means that polygamy was not meant for him. you cannot apply that universally. What Scripture reference do you have, where God supposedly said that it's better to have ONE wife. Even if He had said such a thing, that would not make having multiple wives a sin.
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DanD
Guest
Re: Polygamy -- continuation of older thread.
Nowhere in that passage is it ever indicated that having a second wife is being unfaithful to the first wife.
Nowhere in that passage is it ever indicated that having a second wife is being unfaithful to the first wife.
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DanD
Guest
Re: Polygamy -- continuation of older thread.
What was David's other problem? You are trying to conclude that having multiple wives led to all the problems that his family faced. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Those judgments did NOT occur as a result of David's multiple wives. I am afraid you missed that point.
What was David's other problem? You are trying to conclude that having multiple wives led to all the problems that his family faced. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Those judgments did NOT occur as a result of David's multiple wives. I am afraid you missed that point.
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DanD
Guest
Re: Polygamy -- continuation of older thread.
If you had followed the old thread, you would have seen the admins were not too happy about that old thread being resurrected. Is there anything on the old thread that I did not respond to?
If you had followed the old thread, you would have seen the admins were not too happy about that old thread being resurrected. Is there anything on the old thread that I did not respond to?
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DanD
Guest
Re: Polygamy -- continuation of older thread.
Having multiple wives can lead to the possibility of one being loved over another, but that is not always the case. We don't see any mention of favoritism for Gideon's wives, Lamech's wives, Esau's wives, Caleb's wives, Reheboam's wives, Abijah's wives, Joash's wives, etc. Are we to assume that because favoritism did occur a few times, that it always occurred? If you drive a car, you might get killed in a head-on collision. Many, many people have ended up that way. That doesn't make driving a car sinful. The possibility that one wife might be preferred, does not make it a fait accompli. The Bible tells us of what happens WHEN favoritism occurs, as a warning for those who practice polygamy, not to show such favoritism. God cares enough about the unloved wife, that he will make her fruitful, as a compensation for the lack of love she receives from her husband. Elkanah alludes to that when he asks Hannah if he was not better than ten sons. Favoritism is perhaps too strong. The condition facing Leah and Peninnah, was not that their husband loved the other wife more, but that he did not love them at all!
Having multiple wives, does not mean that if you love one wife too much, you will run out of love, and not have enough left for the other wife or wives. Natural desires for your wife or wives come and go, and often are dependent upon how well a particular wife treats her husband. However, there are built in attractions that a man can have for a woman, that simply take hold of him, which is why many men desert their wives for that woman. I see the woman my former worship pastor left his wife for, and it leaves me scratching my head. What on earth was the guy thinking? It's kind of like Ross deciding between Julie and Rachel on the TV show "Friends"!
The only thing that makes a man want to leave his wife for another woman, is the realization that he cannot have both women! If that were not the case, we would have fewer divorces, and fewer broken homes. That trumps any concern over who gets treated for favorably.
Having multiple wives can lead to the possibility of one being loved over another, but that is not always the case. We don't see any mention of favoritism for Gideon's wives, Lamech's wives, Esau's wives, Caleb's wives, Reheboam's wives, Abijah's wives, Joash's wives, etc. Are we to assume that because favoritism did occur a few times, that it always occurred? If you drive a car, you might get killed in a head-on collision. Many, many people have ended up that way. That doesn't make driving a car sinful. The possibility that one wife might be preferred, does not make it a fait accompli. The Bible tells us of what happens WHEN favoritism occurs, as a warning for those who practice polygamy, not to show such favoritism. God cares enough about the unloved wife, that he will make her fruitful, as a compensation for the lack of love she receives from her husband. Elkanah alludes to that when he asks Hannah if he was not better than ten sons. Favoritism is perhaps too strong. The condition facing Leah and Peninnah, was not that their husband loved the other wife more, but that he did not love them at all!
Having multiple wives, does not mean that if you love one wife too much, you will run out of love, and not have enough left for the other wife or wives. Natural desires for your wife or wives come and go, and often are dependent upon how well a particular wife treats her husband. However, there are built in attractions that a man can have for a woman, that simply take hold of him, which is why many men desert their wives for that woman. I see the woman my former worship pastor left his wife for, and it leaves me scratching my head. What on earth was the guy thinking? It's kind of like Ross deciding between Julie and Rachel on the TV show "Friends"!
The only thing that makes a man want to leave his wife for another woman, is the realization that he cannot have both women! If that were not the case, we would have fewer divorces, and fewer broken homes. That trumps any concern over who gets treated for favorably.