Reading the bible literally or figuratively... that is the question

[HealthAndHappiness]

Recently, I had a casual chat with ChatGPT on how we should read the bible.
I gave an example from the book of Isaiah.
Please find the conversation below.


My view is to read the bible straightforwardly, as I do not want to interpret the bible the way I want to see it.
ChatGPT is so polite that it dances on the head of a pin, as you can see.

But, I want to know what your opinions are.

Kind regards,
James



Q. Prophet Isaiah talks about a peaceful time when lions and lambs graze grass together and the spears of war are used as farming equipment. What is the consensus on this picture among Christians? Do they take this literally or figuratively




A. The passage you are referring to is from Isaiah 11:6-9, which says:

"The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb,
The leopard shall lie down with the young goat,
The calf and the young lion and the fatling together;
And a little child shall lead them.
The cow and the bear shall graze;
Their young ones shall lie down together;
And the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
The nursing child shall play by the cobra’s hole,
And the weaned child shall put his hand in the viper’s den.
They shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain,
For the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord As the waters cover the sea."

Theologians have different opinions on whether this passage should be interpreted literally or figuratively. Some believe that it is a literal description of a future time when peace will reign over the earth, while others see it as a symbolic representation of the peace and harmony that will exist in the spiritual realm.
Those who interpret this passage literally usually believe that it refers to the millennial reign of Christ, a period of 1,000 years when Christ will rule the earth in righteousness and peace. During this time, the animal kingdom will be transformed, and even natural enemies like the lion and the lamb will live together in harmony.
On the other hand, those who interpret this passage figuratively see it as a metaphorical description of the spiritual transformation that will occur when the knowledge of the Lord fills the earth. They believe that the lion and lamb represent different aspects of human nature and that the peace described in this passage will come as a result of the transformation of the human heart.
Overall, there is no consensus among theologians on the interpretation of this passage, and it is ultimately up to each individual to study the text and come to their own conclusion.



Q. Some believe we are already living in the millennium. I don't see wolf and lamb dwelling together. do they believe the passage to be a metaphor?




A. Yes, some Christians believe that we are already living in the millennium, a period of time that began with the resurrection of Christ and will continue until his second coming. This view is known as amillennialism.
Amillennialists typically interpret the passage from Isaiah figuratively, seeing it as a symbolic representation of the peace that believers can experience in their hearts through faith in Christ. They believe that the prophecy is not meant to be understood literally, but rather as a poetic and prophetic expression of the coming age of peace and harmony.
In this view, the wolf and lamb dwelling together represent the reconciliation between God and humanity, and between people of different backgrounds and cultures. It is seen as a metaphorical representation of the peace that comes when people turn away from sin and turn toward God, and the love and compassion that flows from that transformation.
Overall, the interpretation of this passage depends on the theological perspective of the individual. While some Christians interpret it literally, others see it as a metaphorical expression of spiritual truths.

Hello,

I believe this to be a literal passage since there's no reason to take it figuratively.
Theologians are mostly religious unbelievers, so I don't read their commentaries.

As to another view that I was confronted with by people who dabble in the New Age religion, this is a popular passage. Rather, their paraphrase takes president over the written Word in their view.
I've read just enough of the theories put out there by those who believe in their religion of the Mandela Effect to know what they believe. This is one of the passages that get attacked by people who don't read the Bible. I'm not saying that it's what you think.
I was just reminded of their hypothesis last week when reading Isaiah. Some of the Mandela Effect people take this is as "proof" that the devil changed all of the Bibles on the planet through some sort of stupid time space continuum of the "multiverse" New Age theory. This is their explanation for why they don't remember this verse. They don't stop to think of the fact that they have not even read the Bible from cover to cover once.

Anyhow, this is a literal prophecy of the millennial reign of Jesus Christ upon the Earth after He renews it, as you pointed out. I can't think of other parallel passages or references to believers being referred to as wolves or poisonous snakes. False prophets were called vipers as was Satan. The fake preachers were called wolves too, but I don't see how this would illustrate the teaching if that was to be taken in context.
There are multiple reasons I can think of to take this literally though.

 

[HopeinHim98]

Hello,

I believe this to be a literal passage since there's no reason to take it figuratively.
Theologians are mostly religious unbelievers, so I don't read their commentaries.

As to another view that I was confronted with by people who dabble in the New Age religion, this is a popular passage. Rather, their paraphrase takes president over the written Word in their view.
I've read just enough of the theories put out there by those who believe in their religion of the Mandela Effect to know what they believe. This is one of the passages that get attacked by people who don't read the Bible. I'm not saying that it's what you think.
I was just reminded of their hypothesis last week when reading Isaiah. Some of the Mandela Effect people take this is as "proof" that the devil changed all of the Bibles on the planet through some sort of stupid time space continuum of the "multiverse" New Age theory. This is their explanation for why they don't remember this verse. They don't stop to think of the fact that they have not even read the Bible from cover to cover once.

Anyhow, this is a literal prophecy of the millennial reign of Jesus Christ upon the Earth after He renews it, as you pointed out. I can't think of other parallel passages or references to believers being referred to as wolves or poisonous snakes. False prophets were called vipers as was Satan. The fake preachers were called wolves too, but I don't see how this would illustrate the teaching if that was to be taken in context.
There are multiple reasons I can think of to take this literally though.

So did the Bible never actually say the lion shall lie down with the lamb? I've heard tons about the Mandela effect and some of the secular stuff that's allegedly different really makes you scratch your head. But the verses they claim are changed in the Bible I really have to wonder if people just aren't remembering correctly or just going by cliches or sayings they've heard. Or some of it could be they were reading a different version. Sorry it's off the thread topic but it's a interesting topic to me.

 

[Blik]

The text says no such thing. God's act of creation preceded the earth being formless and void.
Telling us the earth was formless and void does not mean it was there before God created anything.
No wonder people wander into so much error! They can't even get the first two sentences right.

Silly girl!! How can something be formless and void if it isn't there?

I have you on ignore, but this one is too much.

 

[Magenta]

Silly girl!! How can something be formless and void if it isn't there?

I have you on ignore, but this one is too much.

I don't blame you for ignoring me, since I know very well how much you hate being corrected.
However, there is nothing silly about saying something did not preexist creation, though you
claim otherwise. The earth was formless and void after it was created.

Genesis 1:2 tells us there wa something here before that first day, it was formless and empty.

Scripture says no such thing. People wander into much error right
off the bat, getting the first two sentences in the Bible wrong .

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

So did the Bible never actually say the lion shall lie down with the lamb? I've heard tons about the Mandela effect and some of the secular stuff that's allegedly different really makes you scratch your head. But the verses they claim are changed in the Bible I really have to wonder if people just aren't remembering correctly or just going by cliches or sayings they've heard. Or some of it could be they were reading a different version. Sorry it's off the thread topic but it's a interesting topic to me.

That's good that you questioned it. Too many people who I met simply believed some version of the Mandela Effect because an authority figure stated it with confidence.
I was thinking about debunking it this spring when there's enough interest to invest the hours of preparation to teach on the subject. I'll just explain a few points for now. Perhaps it will help.

When I heard this for the first time, I considered the source. It was a guy who was an unbeliever, but was into the Hebrew Roots movement mixed with some New Age. He convinced a friend that Satan has the power to change matter and to change every existing KJV Bible, Bernstein Bears books (or whatever they're called, as well as a lot of other things. The guy refused to refer to our Savior as Jesus. Although he didn't know a lick of Hebrew, the guy was very arrogant because he could speak a few Hebrew words from the 1800s. This was enough to impress his friends apparently. Unfortunately, one or two of his new friends were also my friends.

I have to ask myself, who has the power to change matter like the print on every book?
Who is all knowing and knows where every Bible is, or children's book?
Who has the power to change history?

Keep these in mind while we look at who they say has done all of this.....the Devil.
I will say that Satan is powerful, but he's not THAT powerful. Only God knows where every Bible is. Satan is not omniscient.
Only God can transform matter, such as the boy's lunch into feeding thousands of families. The only thing Satan is "good at" is taking a technology and perverting what God made. The devil will motivate people to culture a super cancer that spreads like fire and use it for evil.

God has no interest in changing His Words.
God probably care's nothing about a children's book and is not seen doing things that way. That would be a mockery of God.

Can Satan change the Bible?
Yes, I believe he can and has done that.
All the Bible versions cannot be correct..
They can't all be true.
However, there are many reasons why he cannot change God's preserved Holy Word.
God preserved it and will continue to do so forever.

" The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever."
Psalm 12:6-7

The folks that teach the Mandela Effect are giving far more credit to the devil for powers that he does not possess than they are to God for power to preserve His inspired words accurately.

What do they accomplish by teaching the M.E?
A:.
A. They give the devil the glory.
B. They undermine the faith of many.
C. They keep people from trusting the Lord, since they no longer trust His Word about Him.

None of this is a rebuke of you in any way.
I'm glad you asked the question.
Nobody can learn without asking questions or finding the truth on a subject.
It just sheds light on the teachers and their dark heresy, like the guy who misled my friends.
I will continue the second part right after dinner. 🍵🙂🍜

 

[HopeinHim98]

" The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever."
Psalm 12:6-7

Thanks for the reply. This seems like a very relevant verse concerning M.E. and the bible. How could God allow His word to be changed like that when it says He'll preserve it?

Will look forward to part 2. Honestly though I do remember Berenstein bears, not Berenstain as they're supposedly called now lol.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Thanks for the reply. This seems like a very relevant verse concerning M.E. and the bible. How could God allow His word to be changed like that when it says He'll preserve it?

Who says that God did not preserve His Word?

But it was not a miraculous event. God cause faithful scribes and monks over the centuries to carefully copy copies of copies of copies since the original autographs were written. And those thousands of copies show consistent TRADITIONAL Hebrew and Greek texts. Those are represented by the Hebrew Masoretic and Greek Received texts and are the basis of the King James Bible (1611). And those are the texts from which all the Reformation Bibles were translated and printed. No doubt there are very minor and very few differences which can be disregarded. But God has indeed preserved His Word.

At the same time, there were corruptions of the Bible, primarily by the translators of the Greek Septuagint as well as the Gnostics who corrupted the New Testament. But God led the Reformation translators to reject the corruptions. However unbelieving scholars decided to promote the corruptions instead, and now the modern bible versions have them in abundance. These are not opinions but facts, supported by meticulous research done by faithful conservative scholars.

 

[Grace911]

" The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever."
Psalm 12:6-7

The folks that teach the Mandela Effect are giving far more credit to the devil for powers that he does not possess than they are to God for power to preserve His inspired words accurately.

What do they accomplish by teaching the M.E?
A:.
A. They give the devil the glory.
B. They undermine the faith of many.
C. They keep people from trusting the Lord, since they no longer trust His Word about Him.

What you say is very true about any and all conspiracy type theories and/or truths....those things should not be our focus, because they are rabbit trails away from God's words, the Bible.

 

[HopeinHim98]

Who says that God did not preserve His Word?

But it was not a miraculous event. God cause faithful scribes and monks over the centuries to carefully copy copies of copies of copies since the original autographs were written. And those thousands of copies show consistent TRADITIONAL Hebrew and Greek texts. Those are represented by the Hebrew Masoretic and Greek Received texts and are the basis of the King James Bible (1611). And those are the texts from which all the Reformation Bibles were translated and printed. No doubt there are very minor and very few differences which can be disregarded. But God has indeed preserved His Word.

At the same time, there were corruptions of the Bible, primarily by the translators of the Greek Septuagint as well as the Gnostics who corrupted the New Testament. But God led the Reformation translators to reject the corruptions. However unbelieving scholars decided to promote the corruptions instead, and now the modern bible versions have them in abundance. These are not opinions but facts, supported by meticulous research done by faithful conservative scholars.

I was referring to how that verse seems to prove false the idea that the Bible has been changed by the so-called Mandela Effect.

 

[Nehemiah6]

I was referring to how that verse seems to prove false the idea that the Bible has been changed by the so-called Mandela Effect.

Forget about the Mandela Effect. It has nothing to do with the Bible.

 

[Grace911]

Have you heard of a Genizah? It is a temporary garbage dump for manuscripts of all kinds, letters, legal documents, mistakes on biblical documents, and even writings of heresies all because the name of the LORD is on the document. Here is a link to "What is a Genizah?"

When the documents were found in Qumran, they were treated like they had value, when in fact, they had no value and many new doctrines like weird calendars have come out of this.

 

[Inquisitor]

Does that depart from normalcy …. Do trees have knowledge or good and evil?

Why are you asking me that question, of course, trees don't contain the knowledge of good and evil.

Genesis 2 cannot be understood in a literal way.

The tree of eternal life in the center of the garden was Jesus Christ.

 

[Inquisitor]

You would be wise to shun ChatGPT altogether. The Bible must be read in its plain literal sense unless there is a compelling reason not to. There are metaphors, symbols, and parables in the Bible. But unless you have the indwelling Holy Spirit to teach you the meaning, it will all be very obscure.

Paul was not reading the Old Testament in a literal way.

1 Corinthians 9:8-10
I am not just asserting these things according to human judgment, am I? Or does the Law not say these things as well? For it is written in the Law of Moses: “You shall not muzzle the ox while it is threshing.” God is not concerned about oxen, is He? Or is He speaking entirely for our sake? Yes, it was written for our sake, because the plowman ought to plow in hope, and the thresher to thresh in hope of sharing in the crops.

The law was symbolic.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Paul was not reading the Old Testament in a literal way.

Sure he was. How many examples do you want?

 

[Inquisitor]

Sure he was. How many examples do you want?

Next you will be telling me the Levitical priesthood was not symbolic.

The sacrifices were not symbolic.

The temple was not symbolic.

The offerings were not symbolic.

The Passover was not symbolic, none of the feasts were symbolic.

The Exodus was not symbolic.

 

[Magenta]

" The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever."
Psalm 12:6-7

Psalm 12:6-7
Thank you for the inspiration .

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

So did the Bible never actually say the lion shall lie down with the lamb? I've heard tons about the Mandela effect and some of the secular stuff that's allegedly different really makes you scratch your head. But the verses they claim are changed in the Bible I really have to wonder if people just aren't remembering correctly or just going by cliches or sayings they've heard. Or some of it could be they were reading a different version. Sorry it's off the thread topic but it's a interesting topic to me.

I had to tend to a couple of tasks after dinner, but finally done. Now back to the good questions you asked me. There should be more Christians able to debunk the M.A. because some popular speakers caused a lot of doubt and confusion, mostly in conservative circles from what have seen.
When I was confronted with the Bible verse by the first friend, it shortly after became a trend in radio shows. I wondered why the shows interviewed New Age gurus instead of Bible believing preachers? I guess it was because they didn't really believe the Bible to begin with and they wanted to gain converts. They talked like their religion of mantras, vibrations and frequencies were more valid than the Bible: Then they tried to sound authoritative about their Bible knowledge. After they were done talking, I've been tempted to call in and ask if they ever started reading Genesis and made it all the way to Isaiah. Once I did call in and asked popular New Age leader David Icky how many "christs" he believed there were. He said "Many christs, blah, blah, blah". He compared Buddha to Jesus to Krishna, to Mohammad, etc. Then I got the host mad for exposing his guest.
That's ok, because God answered my prayer so that listeners would not be deceived by Icky .
Grace towards the others in these topics should be shown, but can't stand the gurus. I was deceived into Transcendental Meditation as a kid, so these topics are on my radar when others need help. Back to the verses.

It's easy to understand how "the lion shall lie down with the lamb" came about as popular thought. None of us know it all. I've been wrong about other things and sometimes
need insight that isn't obvious. I doubt there are many preachers who cover pop culture and controversial topics. Here's a brief summary that we can think about.

1. Are most people (pastors) going to memorize long and difficult verses that don't get preached on much, or easier to learn passages that get used often?

Human nature tends towards the easiest way to get a task done. There are plenty of exceptions, but the average is to cut corners.

2. When they do preach a sermon, do pastors always quote a verse correctly or do they sometimes shorten and paraphrase a verse?

3. Do congregations as an average retain what they often hear taught/ preached or what they read on their own?

There are many who are faithful to a weekly service, but few read the Bible regularly.
That allows mistakes from the pulpit to get through without going through the internal filter of familiarity. It happens to all of us. We also need the Holy Spirit to help us to understand and discern.

4. Where have I read, "the lion shall lie down with the lamb?"

I can't speak for anyone else, but I probably read it first in a children's coloring book while filling in between the lines. I've seen it on other Pictures like wall hangings and tee shirts.

Once in the 700 Club, they featured a Christian Zoo that had a lion. The owner quoted this "verse" while The lion handler fed the cat steaks. Veeeery carefully there were helpers who brought a lamb to it and placed it beside the lion while they distracted him with raw steak. 😆
Lol!
That alone would be enough for a child to memorize the very short paraphrase, "The Lion Will Lie Down with the Lamb, and a Little Child Shall Lead Them."
I've done wildlife shows, but not with lions, so I know that the misquote will have more of an emotional and mental anchor than most people's daily reading program. Many preachers simply repeat what they heard for years too and carry on the traditions, regardless of how Biblically sound they may be.

Here are the two passages many well meaning people try to quote.

Isaiah 11:6-9
"The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea."

I love that!
Here's another,
Isaiah 65:24, 25
"And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear.25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD."

I started with verse 24 first because that is one of my current memory verses. God does this all the time. He just did this again today!
I am so blessed.
Thank You Lord!!!

One thing that we are promised is that some day, 25 will also be common too. This is the parallel passage of 11:6.

Which is easier to memorize, the paraphrase or the actual Bible verses?

See how easy it would be for people to assume that the shortened misquote is the actual Bible verse?
Preachers say it.
Early memories of color books or mom's helping children see it.
The memes are saying it.
The 700 Club said it......while keeping the lion occupied with raw Sirloin.
Now that and other similar memories trump the Bible according to the New Agers who don't believe the Bible.
They go on a campaign to undermine our accurate Bible that in KJV happens also to be the biggest seller of any book in history.


I think you agree that there are thousands of reasons to trust the Bible. It took a gal like you with the courage to seek and to ask.
That will hopefully help all the others who also had that question but never got around to seeking and asking.

"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened."
Matthew 7:7...

I was going to post this earlier, but got busy. I will post it here for you in case you want to listen. It's a faith builder about the witnesses to the resurrection of Christ.

Resurrection Witnesses

Hope you had a wonderful Easter.
📖🙂✝️...⚫

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

I should have proofread my last post before hitting that button. Now my mistakes, like "M.A. " should be M.E., are permanent.
😄

 

[Cameron143]

I should have proofread my last post before hitting that button. Now my mistakes, like "M.A. " should be M.E., are permanent.
😄

Don't worry. I've got worse on my permanent record...or so I've been told.

 

[Magenta]

I should have proofread my last post before hitting that button. Now my mistakes, like "M.A. " should be M.E., are permanent.
😄

Don't worry. I've got worse on my permanent record...or so I've been told.

Heh, I accidentally added a tiny dot to my panel while doing the final
sizing and did not notice until after post edit window closed .